Moving Space Shuttle Endeavour

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Seriously, spending an estimated 10 million (no doubt it'll go over) to crawl through 12 miles of congested  urban streets, from LAX to CA Science Center, with an intact Space Shuttle Endeavour, measuring  about 185' feet long and  80' wide? Why wouldn't the move's planners choose to "size" the thing for more practical maneuvering and then reassemble it at the museum? After all,  it's not like airworthiness needs to be preserved... it's going on stinkin' display!http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/...-to-la-museum/Wouldn't even a "measly" million have easily covered a cut-N-weld, or three, to make the move more practical?  I guess discussion of not "sizing" the shuttle and instead cutting a swath through the city to accommodate an intact  move of  80'x185'  qualifies as a project topic?Last edited by denrep; 10-13-2012 at 08:54 AM.
Reply:After spending a fortune on a ROCK, this seemed appropriate to the city fathers.After all........................it's California"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:They say cutting it up would of caused to much damage to the heat shield tiles.Miller Diversion 180Lincoln Mig Pak 5000 HDHypertherm 45Uni-Spotter Stud WelderOxy Set-up with Harris TorchMiller 30FX Arc StationMiller Elite - Hockey Canada Helmet
Reply:Originally Posted by Tundra08They say cutting it up would of caused to much damage to the heat shield tiles.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepWasn't tile replacement routine maintenance?
Reply:Originally Posted by OkieDaveYes.No.  Every tile on the Shuttle is unique in shape; no tile can substitute for another.
Reply:For pete's sake... Why do thyey even deed tiles?  Make foam ones!  It's not like anybody's gonna be allowed to touch it.You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:Very interesting "Project" !   Isn't that called a "spectacle" - part of the "Bread and Circuses" in the empire days?  Oh wait ... the empire hasn't ended yet!  If "they" can rob the tax livestock at gunpoint for unlimited $$$ for frivolous s**t like that, why not?  The more they take, the more they make!  Last edited by Fabn4Fun; 10-13-2012 at 11:09 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawThere is some genuis at work there!   Guess its sitting at the forum right now.    Heck they don't use the forum for anything.  Leave it there and build a space camp around it.Oh Boy! I just had to explain to my  wife that the Toyota Tundra is NOT really pulling the space shuttle and that the huge trailers it is mounted on have hydraulic motors on the wheels controlled by a remote panel..   I am sure a large part of this transport cost is covered by Toyota.  Actually a pretty good marketing idea on their part.    Only now we are probably gonna see a bunch of people trying to pull 20K lb trailers with their Tundras...
Reply:just cut one wing off flush on one side of the shuttle, leave one wing completely intact on one side. then when they go to put it in the musem just put the side you cut the wing off up against the wall as if it was ment to be done that way  one less wing should make it a little easier to move right??MillerMatic 252Miller Dialarc 250Smith Oxy/acetlyne Cutting OutfitHossfeld BenderTubing Roller
Reply:TYPICAL government boondoggle...why is anyone surprised???
Reply:The shuttle is classified as a national treasure. Cutting it up in order to save a few trees or someone a day of commuting headaches is unacceptable, akin to cutting the liberty bell in half to make it more manageable. All of this could have been avoided if it went to Houston, which is where it should have gone in the first place. California should be grateful for receiving this gift, rather than complain about it.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:It should be on the launch pad ready for the next flight.
Reply:Originally Posted by millratIt should be on the launch pad ready for the next flight.
Reply:Originally Posted by millratIt should be on the launch pad ready for the next flight.
Reply:Obama sure has not done anything to keep NASA going! Miller Dailarc HF 250 Hobart 140
Reply:lol one does not simply cut a space shuttle in half.It's not a hollow shell, it's an extremely complex machine with a ton of plumbing and wiring. The space shuttle is one of the most iconic things human beings have ever made. Nobody is going to ruin it to make it a little easier to move once. The thing spent significant time in low earth orbit which isn't exactly the easiest thing to accomplish... I think they'll make it to LA just fine.Also, it's embarassing to see some of you nitpicking the designs of some of the best aerospace engineers alive, go mig weld your angleiron together.Last edited by MikeGyver; 10-14-2012 at 12:35 AM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Geez Some act like this is rocket science or something. I mean it's 1970's  aircraft construction technology, why wouldn't it be possible to "size" it for the purpose of moving it to inoperable display status? Not like it's a tree or something that man is incapable of creating.The same type of talented workers who could build a shuttle, or carve a large enough swath through an urban area  to pass a shuttle through, would certainly be capable of "sizing" the shuttle for a more practical move, and then performing a structurally sound and cosmetically appealing re-joining of it.In fact, I believe that a common sense cut-N-join with its reverent nod to Mother Nature and practicality would have added character to the museum display. To me, it seems ironic to be reaching out for other worlds, if you can't demonstrate a little common sense practicality and respect at your own.As to the technical aspects of "sizing" the shuttle...The big concern with sizing was for preserving  tiles in the area of any would-be cuts?Hello? The shuttle does not need to fly again. Non-flight-spec, cosmetically accurate tiles would be fine.Nope, the shuttle no longer will need the structural integrity required for flight.Yup, if so inclined, one could even get rough  and run a Sawzall right through that whole rat's nest of cables.  Look at the picture to get an idea of how much even a partial "cut" would have simplified the move  I believe that "sizing" the load would have made a lot of sense and  freed millions of dollars for more practical uses than hacking through twelve miles of urban infrastructure.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 10-14-2012 at 11:22 AM.
Reply:I bet it would scrap for top $
Reply:Originally Posted by Mick120Nothing like a spectacle like that to take the 'poeple's' minds off reality.......bratkid63 called it right.....should be in Houston.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat Bastard$10,000,000.00That is what this thread is about? Ten million dollars. In the time it took me to write and post this the United States Federal Government spent 20 times that amount. It is a distraction. To keep you from reading page 2 that tells you that the US Government is broke and will need you to work until July next year to pay your fair share.
Reply:We never should have dropped the Saturn 5's.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I find it hilarious that in CA they actually sacrificed trees to keep a piece of space junk intact. Typical left coast logic I guess. MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I think as usual, too many politicians were getting their pockets lined by shuttle project builders.   They knew long ago it was not going to be cost effective to use them over rockets...However it is an American Icon and source of pride, not to mention all the various tech discoveries it spawned...  They need to make the exhibit a walk thru type of thing, not just look at it from the outside..Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Wonder if they could have stood it up and taken it down the street sideways... Few power/phone lines and over-hanging lights, a lot less effort.BruceWouldn't THAT be a hoot if they cut it half after getting it there in one piece. MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I find this thread amusing.There were a specific set of guidelines put forth by NASA in order for a location to be considered as a final resting place for an orbiter vehicle. One of the requirements was that the vehicle be preserved in it's original configuration. It was the responsibility of the entity requesting the vehicle to provide a detailed plan of how to safely transport the vehicle INTACT to the facility it was to be displayed at. I guess California's leaders decided having a space shuttle orbiter was worth 400 trees and a couple days of traffic headaches. And if it did cost 10 million to move it, California bought it for less than a penny on the dollar of it's original price.While typing this, ABC news had a story running about the move. Funny, none of the people they interviewed on the street seemed to be upset! Trees will grow back and the traffic will go back to normal (whatever that is for southern California). Meanwhile, generations will get to enjoy one of the most complex machines built by man on display in their own state. I'm sure Houston Texas would have loved to get it.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:So the next time crapifornia talks about being in debt, this is yet another reason why. I did a job out there a few years ago, no expense spared, What a waste. This state has the highest debt and the best credit cards. Pawn it off on the next.I forgot how to change this.
Reply:There's no self propelled trailer there....http://news.discovery.com/space/toyo...mkcpgn=rssnws1There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCSo the next time crapifornia talks about being in debt, this is yet another reason why. I did a job out there a few years ago, no expense spared, What a waste. This state has the highest debt and the best credit cards. Pawn it off on the next.
Reply:Houston not getting one of the real shuttles is the administration giving the finger to TexasMiller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:even as a Californian i say Houston got royally screwed.     That bird belongs in Houston!!!  With that said you cannot simply cut a wing off an icon.     Even if talented craftsman that built it cut it and put it back together you simply cant.    Thats one of the most iconic achievements of mankind repeatable reusable space vehicle.      that would be like wanting chuck Yeager to cut his hand off and mail it to Washington so it could be seen waving out the window of a limo.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by bratkid63The shuttle is classified as a national treasure. Cutting it up in order to save a few trees or someone a day of commuting headaches is unacceptable, akin to cutting the liberty bell in half to make it more manageable. All of this could have been avoided if it went to Houston, which is where it should have gone in the first place. California should be grateful for receiving this gift, rather than complain about it.
Reply:And now we know why California is bankrupt!  Not a smart financial moveMM211 w/Spoolmate 100
Reply:Were they the state that also move a huge boulder calling it a work of art???
Reply:I believe you are absolutely correct. MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:How is this a welding project or picture?Nonsensical distraction tactics to the core.People just love shock and awe, they eat it up all day and beg for more like the garbage from McD's.Both amusing and depressing.Miller Syncrowave 250 w/ PC-300 pulserLincoln AC/DC 225/125Clarke TurboWeld 150ENJackson Halo w/ gold lensHuntsman w/ blue lensDoing sanitary stainless tig
Reply:I saw it when it was being moved to Moffet field.  If you haven't seen it in person, you probably wouldn't understand.I stood on the roof of my shop and watched, its pretty impressive, if you ask me.
Reply:The external tanks had miles of welding in each one.  All high precision TIG welding with helium.  If an aluminum cola can could be enlarged in scale with the external tank it would weigh 25% to 50% than the unpainted external tank.  Yet that tank took carried the fuel and the shuttle into space.  One fuel pump on the Shuttle could empty an Olympic size swimming pool in 6 seconds.  It pertains to welding and fabrication IMHO.  "G"ConductorX - The Volkswright Shophttp://volkswright.blogspot.com/http://bugwerks.blogspot.com/Miller DVI w/Spoolgun - Miller Plasma Cutter
Reply:"Shovel Ready" Obama Nation Infrastructure!
Reply:I wonder is the shuttle had to be kept in "serviceable" condition? Kind of like how we have the mothball fleet? So in case of great need we *could* but her back into service? That would give another reason for not cutting her up?
Reply:Technically ships like the USS New Jersey and Wisconsin are supposed to be maintained in such a way that they can be restored to active service if needed. In reality the amount of work required to reactivate one makes this pretty much impossible. Even the reserve fleet is very difficult to reactivate if needed now days. The original "moth balling" plans called for those ships to be moth balled in ready to go condition. The ships were supposed to be fully stocked with replacement parts, tools, cook ware, etc. All that was needed was to open them up, fuel, load ammo and take on perishable items like food, bedding etc. In the early 70's under Carter IIRC, they did away with that. They stripped the ships of almost everything so they were basically hulks. Where do you find replacement parts for equipment that was made 30 years ago? In theory all that stuff was supposed to be stored, but in reality with all the cuts, storage of "obsolete" parts is almost always the 1st things that go. Even with the battleship Iowa, they've cut up and scraped all the spare 16" gun  barrels that were in storage, so there's no chance the ship could ever get rebarreled if needed. Without the main guns, the use of the ship is minimal at best.Combine that with the fact all the supporting hardware wouldn't have been saved or maintained, and there's zero chance the Shuttles will ever fly again, at least under their own power. Heck NASA can't even find enough drawings to reconstruct the Saturn V's. I remember a few years back reading an article that stated they were trying to dig up enough salvaged parts for the old Mercury and Saturn rockets to reverse engineer the drawings when it looked like they were going to have to go back to "conventional" rockets for space. No one saved any of that stuff when they went to the shuttle because they figured they'd never need it again..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:"There were a specific set of guidelines put forth by NASA in order for a location to be considered as a final resting place for an orbiter vehicle. One of the requirements was that the vehicle be preserved in it's original configuration. It was the responsibility of the entity requesting the vehicle to provide a detailed plan of how to safely transport the vehicle INTACT to the facility it was to be displayed at."Then their request should have been rejected!
Reply:Originally Posted by 1967martiI wonder is the shuttle had to be kept in "serviceable" condition? Kind of like how we have the mothball fleet? So in case of great need we *could* but her back into service? That would give another reason for not cutting her up?
Reply:This is the sign of the demise of America... an Asian truck pulling the highest technical achievement of America to a museum. Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Originally Posted by SSWTechnically ships like the USS New Jersey and Wisconsin are supposed to be maintained in such a way that they can be restored to active service if needed. In reality the amount of work required to reactivate one makes this pretty much impossible. Even the reserve fleet is very difficult to reactivate if needed now days. The original "moth balling" plans called for those ships to be moth balled in ready to go condition. The ships were supposed to be fully stocked with replacement parts, tools, cook ware, etc. All that was needed was to open them up, fuel, load ammo and take on perishable items like food, bedding etc. In the early W's under Carter II RC, they did away with that. They stripped the ships of almost everything so they were basically hulks. Where do you find replacement parts for equipment that was made 30 years ago? In theory all that stuff was supposed to be stored, but in reality with all the cuts, storage of "obsolete" parts is almost always the ST things that go. Even with the battleship Iowa, they've cut up and scraped all the spare 16" gun  barrels that were in storage, so there's no chance the ship could ever get re barreled if needed. Without the main guns, the use of the ship is minimal at best.Combine that with the fact all the supporting hardware wouldn't have been saved or maintained, and there's zero chance the Shuttles will ever fly again, at least under their own power. Heck NASA can't even find enough drawings to reconstruct the Saturn V's. I remember a few years back reading an article that stated they were trying to dig up enough salvaged parts for the old Mercury and Saturn rockets to reverse engineer the drawings when it looked like they were going to have to go back to "conventional" rockets for space. No one saved any of that stuff when they went to the shuttle because they figured they'd never need it again.
Reply:Even if they had to move it, ya think they coulda maybe waited a year?My tiny brain is still struggling with the concept of spending ourselves out of a recession.  I mean, when I'm down on cash, I wait till I have more before doing something unnecessary.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum