Flowmeter vs. Regulator

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In your experience has your flow meter justified it's higher cost?  Any circumstances where the reg type just won't due?
Reply:Originally Posted by Dan FS71In your experience has your flow meter justified it's higher cost?  Any circumstances where the reg type just won't due?
Reply:Which begs the question,,  What is a good starting point for tig welding with a flow meter. I am running mine at 8 L/min and it sure seems like I go through a lot more gas then when I was running 10 PS I on a regulator. I am welding in a closed building at a bench or standing at a different spot inside the building. So no wind to speak of.Ideas?   Opinions.....    please...From the desk of Kevin CaronTrying to be the best me I can!www.kevincaron.comAHP Alpha Tig 200x MillerMatic 251Miller Syncrowave 200
Reply:Originally Posted by Dan FS71In your experience has your flow meter justified it's higher cost?  Any circumstances where the reg type just won't due?
Reply:The cost is very close, so use the best.  Mig,Tig = Flometer.  John GSMAW,GMAW,FCAW,GTAW,SAW,PAC/PAW/OFCand Shielding Gases.  There all here. :
Reply:A flowmeter is the ball/float type. A flowgauge is just what it implies, 2 gauges.I prefer the flowmeter for tig. The flowgauge is more robust for mig, and flow does not need to be that accurate IMO.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by kevinacaronWhich begs the question,,  What is a good starting point for tig welding with a flow meter. I am running mine at 8 L/min and it sure seems like I go through a lot more gas then when I was running 10 PS I on a regulator. Ideas?   Opinions.....    please...
Reply:I bought a Profax flow meter from the LWS here that was a little over $50. It worked very well and was about 1/3 less than some of the more expensive brands. It is a ball and tube type. http://www.usweldingsupply.com/profax-flowmeters.htmlLast edited by bhardy501; 04-02-2012 at 08:55 PM.
Reply:edit: removedLast edited by that'll_buff_out; 04-02-2012 at 09:29 PM.How do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:Kevin forgive me for saying, but, I'm a little surprised however I do like the ball float type flowmeter for tig, and I like your work.  For the those interested I have gone to the TK worldwide gas lens set up acording to figuers they are suppose to save gas, but cant give a good report right now, so if anyone has more to contribute on those now is the time to chime.
Reply:I like flowmeters for MIG and TIG not just for accuracy but also for diagnosing problems (i.e. is gas actually flowing?). Agree that flow-gauges are best for portable use due to ruggedness.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Ron,  I have a gas lens I got from the local store. Can't say as I noticed any difference. Course I really have no idea what I am looking at anyway... I went back to the narrow mouth cup I was running before I got the gas lens just because I was tired of the wide mouth cup on the gas lens. I did switch from the import flow meter to the "US Made" meter and did notice a HUGE difference in the amount of gas coming out of the cup. I think the import one is a little out of calibration..... I have to replace my bottle tomorrow anyway so I will pick up a new flow meter and just file the import where it belongs....Thanks for replying,,,  was beginning to think I needed a shower or something.......From the desk of Kevin CaronTrying to be the best me I can!www.kevincaron.comAHP Alpha Tig 200x MillerMatic 251Miller Syncrowave 200
Reply:Kevin, if your new flowmeter is is CFH, then my rule of thumb is 10 cfh for a #5 cup, to 20 cfh for a #8 cup. I like to knock a couple off with a gas lense, and add a couple when I blend in helium.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:shovelon  Thanks,  I will try to figure out what I have and go from there.   I kind of got a clue when I noticed some small pieces getting blown across the table when I would trip the torch. Kept turning the flow down but didn't seem to make a difference. The new flow meter doesn't make anywhere near the noise the import did.  You get what you pay for I guess......From the desk of Kevin CaronTrying to be the best me I can!www.kevincaron.comAHP Alpha Tig 200x MillerMatic 251Miller Syncrowave 200
Reply:Are you talking about the "puff" of gas that is released when the gas solenoid in your TIG machine opens?You can reduce that with 2 ways:1.  Use a flowmeter with a lower internal working pressure.  (e.g., use a 30 psi flowmeter instead of a 50psi or a 75psi model.)  You can measure the internal working pressure of a flowmeter by putting a pressure gauge on it, and blocking the flow.  (The pressure it rises to is its internally regulated pressure.)  This is what happens by the way, whenever the gas solenoid in your TIG machine closes. 2.  Reduce the volume in the lines between your flowmeter's outlet and your TIG machine's gas inlet.  (e.g., shorten the hose, or go to a smaller diameter hose.)  It's easy to ditch the 1/4" ID hose and go down to 3/16" ID.  You can also easily get away with even smaller diameter than 3/16" (it doesn't take that large of a hose to get enough flow out of a TIG torch...)  Even smaller than 3/16" ID hose would be fine for TIG, however, finding fittings to fit the flowmeter and TIG machine in hose IDs smaller than 3/16" will be a challenge.
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruAre you talking about the "puff" of gas that is released when the gas solenoid in your TIG machine opens?You can reduce that with 2 ways:1.  Use a flowmeter with a lower internal working pressure.  (e.g., use a 30 psi flowmeter instead of a 50psi or a 75psi model.)  You can measure the internal working pressure of a flowmeter by putting a pressure gauge on it, and blocking the flow.  (The pressure it rises to is its internally regulated pressure.)  This is what happens by the way, whenever the gas solenoid in your TIG machine closes. 2.  Reduce the volume in the lines between your flowmeter's outlet and your TIG machine's gas inlet.  (e.g., shorten the hose, or go to a smaller diameter hose.)  It's easy to ditch the 1/4" ID hose and go down to 3/16" ID.  You can also easily get away with even smaller diameter than 3/16" (it doesn't take that large of a hose to get enough flow out of a TIG torch...)  Even smaller than 3/16" ID hose would be fine for TIG, however, finding fittings to fit the flowmeter and TIG machine in hose IDs smaller than 3/16" will be a challenge.
Reply:Hello jakeru, I would only add one other consideration to your already thorough response. There are "stiffer" hoses available that won't physically expand under pressure. Some of the hoses in use act like accumulators in a hydraulic/pneumatic system, they will expand when the system is static and as soon as you activate the gas valve they will release the "extra" stored capacity as well as the extra psi's that you described. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:I use both for tig it just depends on the situation. When i am inside or with low wind I use a flowmeter. If there is wind i use a regulator at 10-20 psi. I use a ck17 torch with a manual gas valve on it with a gas lens and a 7 or 8 cup. I can weld in up to a 15 mph wind.
Reply:Jakeru and Allan make a very good point about hoses. My MIG welder is on a cart with a tank shelf, and I use a 4' hose to connect them to minimize the surge of gas at the start.Shovelon, do you know why they recommend different pressures for MIG vs TIG?JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedJakeru and Allan make a very good point about hoses. My MIG welder is on a cart with a tank shelf, and I use a 4' hose to connect them to minimize the surge of gas at the start.Shovelon, do you know why they recommend different pressures for MIG vs TIG?John
Reply:For what it's worth, you could even mount a flowmeter to your MIG or feeder, and feed it with a pressure regulator set to provide sufficient input pressure.We fed our TIG and MIG headers that way and it worked fine. Beat slinging cylinders to each machine! The MIG header got about 70 psi.If you feed a typical TIG flowmeter 35 psi input, it will put out sufficient for your needs so long as you can maintain the input volume. You can of course crank up the input pressure to whatever range your hoses or manifold or combination thereof can safely handle, but we didn't need to go over 35 to feed ten stations with two flowmeters (one for torch and one for purge).Lots of folks have extra regs and flowmeters to experiment with. Western Enterprises has all the brass fittings you might need.
Reply:You could also buy a cheap portable flowmeter that you put on the nozzle of your torch to measure flow.
Reply:Dan - I am only a hobby welder, and not very experienced at that, but I do have some input based on my experience with ball type flowmeters vs flow gauges.I bought my used Miller XMT304, a Mig feeder for steel and a push pull feeder/ gun for alumimum.  The used equipment came with sets of regulators, and gauge flowmeters. I was going through way too much gas on both steel and al, so  switched to the 2nd set - same thing. Had it set for only about 10 CF/hr on the gauge, but still went through med bottle in a few hours of welding ( a couple of times)Finally broke down and bought a ball type flowmeter from my LWS and now am using way less gas. Could have paid for the new flowmeter twice with the wasted gas.  Not sure if both my gauge style ones are off, defective or inaccurate, but either way I am happy with the ball type.  Hard to tell how much is flowing (inexperienced) especially as the initial push or gas is just the built up pressure, not the real flow rate.
Reply:Around 12lt/min. Adjust as required.
Reply:Originally Posted by kevinacaronWhich begs the question,,  What is a good starting point for tig welding with a flow meter. I am running mine at 8 L/min and it sure seems like I go through a lot more gas then when I was running 10 PS I on a regulator.Unless Im dealing with a draft gas coverage is pretty straight forward.......WP-20 torch will be fine with 10 CFH especially with a Gas Lens which has a better direction  than a standard cup.....I hardly ever turn the flow up past 15 with the smaller torch....The WP-18  maybe 20 with Helium......Anything other than that is to adjust for a breeze....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock