Gooseneck fab- Quests on process

admin

Hello wondered if I can ask you all what you think -   I am building a new neck section for my 25 ft dually gooseneck trailer. Am cutting and fitting and will start welding fri or saturday.I am confident in my design and welding just hoping for some guidance on best method. The neck is A992 - 50 ksi to 65 ksi , 12 inch x 19lb I-beam.  Center web .240in,  caps are .349in.  thick.  Coupler tube at front is .200 thick. I have a Synchrowave 250 Tig-stick, Miller thunderbolt 225 AC DC stick , and a millermatic200Which welding process and rod type is strongest?  Working outside so Tig not a good.  idea? Will stick welded be stronger than Mig? Are the mig welds more brittle? With stick should I DC reverse with 6011 root and 7018 cap?  What dia rods and amperage? If using stick does the old thunderbolt on DC have enough juice or should I drag the Synchro250 out there to stick weld? Just Mig the whole shooting match and call it a day?        Thanks Guys,  DaveMiller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:mig outside can pose shielding problems if there is any wind, the old thunderbolt should work just fine with 6011 roots / 7018 capsMOLON LAVE
Reply:The best process to use is the one that you are the most proficient and confident in. Grind all of your joints to a bevel and weld everything full pen that you can.  I personally would run FRESH 7018 all the way out with a stick or if it's not breezy I would run the mig.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:x2.  you could use 6011 to tack weld up the pieces or 6010 for good penetration on the first pass where you burn through the root opening in the bevel joints.  X2 also on using good quality, lo-hy rod, like a E7018.  I'd take the time to pop them in a rod oven and bring them up to temperature too.  Either that, or make certain to grind out all your starts and stops.You could MIG weld everything if you could rig a wind break or tent.  But I'd still put the same effort into beveling all the joints. Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingThe best process to use is the one that you are the most proficient and confident in. Grind all of your joints to a bevel and weld everything full pen that you can.  I personally would run FRESH 7018 all the way out with a stick or if it's not breezy I would run the mig.
Reply:Thanks,   I have an unopened 5 lb box of hobart  7018  1/8 in that I just bought.   Is that ok or do I need a larger dia?  5/32??   Thanks,  DaveLast edited by davo727; 05-29-2009 at 09:20 PM.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Hey gents ,    I went and bought some more rod and used DC reverse with the thunderbolt,  beveled all the joints on both sides and did root passes with 5/32 6011 and capped with 5/32 7018. Had been a while since I had done much stick welding but got nice results pretty quick. The welds on the center web will be ground flat and 12in x 12 in diamond shaped 1/4 in doubler plates will be welded on both sides of the necks. Included a pic of the trailer after I had cut the old front off it.  I am extending the vertical beams up to 48 in high and welding the new gooseneck to it. Will update with some more pics as it comes together.   Thanks,   Dave Attached ImagesLast edited by davo727; 05-31-2009 at 12:49 AM.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Looks good.I would use stick 6010/11 and 7018, or .045 E71T-11 self shielded flux core wire.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Made some progress today. Notched the beams and welded  the coupler in with the 6011.  Tacked in a couple temporary crossmembers at the other end so I can flip the whole thing over to weld the bottom.  I dont like welding upside down. I have to get some more beam to put in a couple big crossmembers in the neck. Im going to weld the rest of this and weld the neck to the trailer with 6011 and then pull the trailer up next to the garage - close to the power plug and then I will do the final cap welds with the 7018, maybe use the synchrowave with stick. The welds I did today were with the thunderbolt, trailer sitting about 120 feet from the power plug, used a couple of 8 gauge romex cords and it was great with the 6011 but the 7018 didnt run happy with the machine set at max DC 150 - (was fine without the long cord the other day) Hoping to get the neck hung on this thing tomorrow. Attached ImagesLast edited by davo727; 06-04-2009 at 10:25 PM.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Got the uprights welded in with the 6011 root pass. Adding doubler plates both sides and then a boxing plate on the outboard side of each upright from the top down almost to the jack gearboxes Attached ImagesMiller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Looks good so far, keep us posted with pictures as you go.
Reply:everything looks like it is fitting well and will do just nicely.  it may be the angle of the picture, but your cap looks cold.  running a 5/32 on you machine is pushing the dc side of your machine grant it your machine goes up to 150 amps.  if the 5s are not burning in like you want step back down to the 1/8.  those 1/8ths will work great with you machine.if it is just the way i am looking at the pics then ignore the above.  i love the pictures you have posted keep up the good work.
Reply:Thanks Scott, I did go down to 1/8 in on the welds I did today, It was still undercutting and trying to burn through so I dont think I could go any hotter. I think I was just getting a little sag.  Out of practice and these vertical welds are a lot harder than the flat welds i did in the driveway when I welded the neck I-beams together.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Was def getting good penetration, those welds will look better after i grind them down a hair and cover them with 7018 Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Didnt get much done today other than took a little chunk out of the backside of my right wrist with a 7 in grinder ,dammit.  Not too bad it was winding down when it grazed me. I had lost my grip and the torque spun it around . Anyway I need to make a template to match up the angles on my neck to the front sides of the uprights - I hope I can get the angles right and the beams beveled right so that when I hang it up there it fits the first time   ( good luck to me).  I welded the uprights in line with the old ones which werent perfect and the right one is twisted at the top about 1/8 in.  So I need to get the new neck cut and ground to make up for it.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Well, I tried and I failed. Tried to hang it by myself since my buddy said he would help and then he left and went to the lake with his gf instead.  Wrestled with it for a long time and finally got it lined up and tacked except the left side lower had a gap and I thought that it would come in when i lowered the hoist some but it refused.  Broke the tacks trying to force it down. Will need some more grinding to get the angle correct.  Gave up as it was dark by then.  Wont be off work to mess with it til wednesday.   Phooey!!!!!!!!!!!!! Attached ImagesLast edited by davo727; 06-13-2009 at 11:46 PM.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Originally Posted by davo727Well, I tried and I failed. Tried to hang it by myself since my buddy said he would help and then he left and went to the lake with his gf instead.  Wrestled with it for a long time and finally got it lined up and tacked except the left side lower had a gap and I thought that it would come in when i lowered the hoist some but it refused.  Broke the tacks trying to force it down. Will need some more grinding to get the angle correct.  Gave up as it was dark by then.  Wont be off work to mess with it til wednesday.   Phooey!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:how far is that reach?
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott Younghow far is that reach?
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott Younghow far is that reach?
Reply:Got that thing hung!!! Yay for me. A few min with the grinder and I got the joints really nice. The pic is after it was heavily tacked and got the lift out of the way. I then did most of the first passes with 6011 before I quit for the evening. Tomorrow I have to take a few measurements and go down to Triple S steel and get some channel for the neck X-members and see if they have some 1/4 in sheet in surplus maybe I can get half a sheet to do the big triangle gussets from the neck down to the uprights. I think I can get this neck pretty much wrapped up by friday night. Oh and dont worry bout that junkyard behind the trailer  Attached ImagesMiller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:These are the inboard sides of the neck joints. All DC +.  2 passes with 1/8 in 6011 at 130 amps and a pass with 1/8 7018 at 140 amps.  The corners have a couple passes of 7018.The 6011 sure does dig in with killer penetration. Nobody will confuse me with a pro welder thats for sure but I dont think its gonna fall off I bought an air needle scaler and that works great for quickly getting the 6011 slag gone. I bought some 4 in and 6 in channel for crossmembers and a 3x5 foot pc of 1/4 in plate for the big gusetts under the neck. 30 cents a pound from Triple S steel surplus yard houston.This is starting to resemble a lot of work.  Maybe I will take a couple days off work and try to get more of it knocked out. I was looking the trailer over and found that I need to cut out and replace the front lower frame x-member. Left side is rusted to hell.  Lots of work. Attached ImagesMiller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:I sure am happy with that old Thunderbolt that I paid $100 for off craigslist. Its kickin butt on this trailer.  The fan died on it so I pulled the cover off the welder and removed the old fan and added a 7 in dia 230V fan from mouser electronics. Its 300 cfm . $45.00http://www.mouser.com   part#  OA172SAP-22-1TBXCRight now the fan is somewhat (rigged)  but functional and the cover is still off the welder cause im busy with the trailer. Later I will incorporate it into the cover so it blows air in the lower area and exhausts out the top.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Well  I  cut out four  1/4 inch  doublers for the neck joints and was about to start welding and the sky opened and started raining for the first time in a month  Attached ImagesLast edited by davo727; 06-29-2009 at 07:20 PM.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Davo, are you running those 7018's downhill?  It looks like that in the pic.  If you are then you really need to be running lowhydrogen rods uphill, not downhill.  Running down hill will give lack of penetration, and is bad about slag inclusions as well.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Ha,  Busted.  I will  confess my welding sins with pics in a couple days    The angled joints in the middle of the neck were done laying flat on my driveway.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasmaCut out some more doublers to go over my upright I-beam splices. . The long ones are for the outboard sides of the uprights and at their bottom edge will be welded to the 1/2 inch plates that are under the Jacks. And the shorter double bevel ones are for the inb sides of uprights. Also spent about an hour grinding on the front of the uprights getting the remnants of the old gussets off them and ready for the new BIG 2.5 ftX 2.5 ft triangle gussets.1/4 in plate cut with my longevity 60 amp plasma. It cuts that 1/4 like butter very nice and a thin nice kerf.  My welders are all Miller but tried the import plasma since It was $500 to my door.  Also did a gooseneck hitch project on my truck with it. No welding this week but got a lot ready to weld for next week. Attached ImagesMiller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Well since its been 2 3/4 years maybe I should get this trailer welded up and rolling again   Worked on the triangle plates some today. Needs more welding. Next week more progress will happen. I will add plate to tie the new gussets into the old gussets below. Will be adding crossmembers to the neck and other misc doublers. Attached ImagesMiller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Originally Posted by davo727Well since its been 2 3/4 years maybe I should get this trailer welded up and rolling again
Reply:I'm also interested in how your plasma cutter has held up over this time. How much has it been used in the last almost 3 years?Safety 3rdGump
Reply:Also you want to box that top section of the upright beam.   Adding some continuity plates to form a square.   Full pen welded wouldn't be a bad thing either.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:That plasma doesnt have a whole lot of use yet, works good so far. Will be back on this project the next couple days.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:I pulled it 30 miles today and it didnt break in two and run over a bus full of nuns   My buddy let me use his 99 F550  7.3 with 6 speed trans. That truck is a nice pulling unit. On the trailer I added a 4 in channel crossmember at the top of the uprights at the inside of the I beam uprights. Also welded in a crossmember across the rear face of the uprights. Did two 7018 over passes on the doubler joints from 2 years ago. I had to get it up to my property. Needs more work still, I will get to it. Im going to add diagonal braces from the top down to the front side rails. Attached ImagesLast edited by davo727; 04-22-2012 at 12:48 AM.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:This was the first time I had ever towed a gooseneck. Went well. Attached ImagesMiller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Congrats on getting it rolling thats a nice job you did after you haul heavy with a gooseneck its tough going back to a bumper pull. the no sway, being able to run speed limit, and positioning the load is not near as critical is awesome.  O and dont try to pull it through the drive thru the off tracking can get you in trouble Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.