pricing a job, thoughts?

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so, an old friend called me to fab up some handrails for the side porch on his rental house he just inherited, and I'm trying to be fair but, it is a pretty involved little job and I want to be happy with what I make on it, too.  So, all he really said was he wants very nice ornamental looking stuff. what was there was round tubing junk that looked like it should've been outside of a grocery store, not on a house. it all rusted out at the bottom and basically fell off... so I'm pricing things from King Architectural, I'm figuring about 200 in material, 50 in renting a hammer drill and impact driver (2 tools I don't own yet) , and I'm figuring it will take me about 6 hours to build it and install it.  I guess my real problem is  I don't know where prices should be to stay competitive? I know I do good work, and so does he, so it's not like I have to prove anything here....just want to be fair and not over or undershoot it and have either of us be unhappy at the end of the day. 600 too much?Millermatic 211 Miller Blue Fire 140@swiftwelding on Instagram
Reply:600 for everything puts your labor at 350, which comes out to around 55 an hour, give or take a few. What kind of gas you looking to spend on this excursion?If I do side jobs for friends, I usually put all the materials, gas, etc in one list. That price never changes. Then I decide what my time is worth, per hour. Depending on the friend, could be free, could be 20, could be more. Friends are sometimes tricky to work for. You dont want to make them mad, or feel hosed, but you dont want to be shortchanged either. This is how I would go about a cost. Matl. estimation, then gas, then time cost, then an agreeable per hour rate=total cost.
Reply:Originally Posted by turismolover22600 for everything puts your labor at 350, which comes out to around 55 an hour, give or take a few. What kind of gas you looking to spend on this excursion?If I do side jobs for friends, I usually put all the materials, gas, etc in one list. That price never changes. Then I decide what my time is worth, per hour. Depending on the friend, could be free, could be 20, could be more. Friends are sometimes tricky to work for. You dont want to make them mad, or feel hosed, but you dont want to be shortchanged either. This is how I would go about a cost. Matl. estimation, then gas, then time cost, then an agreeable per hour rate=total cost.
Reply:When you say "old friend", to me, that means a welding favor.As i've said several hundred times when friends try to pay me for work, "I reserve the right to do welding favors for my friends".I'll take money for the material cost only, but 6 hours out of my life for a friend, is nothing to me.Based on the fact that for my entire life my friends have done favors for me with their particular skills and tools that I don't/didn't have.Now real world work, that's a whole nuther thin. I don't drop my rates for nobody there, great recession be damned.Old friends always retaliate when I do them a welding favor.JTMcC
Reply:I must be real slow.  $200 material.  And only 6hrs work.  It would take me 20-30 hrs. to complete a job with 200 buck material and no ornaments.  Your Price must reflect ordering and shipping?Sent from my SPH-M830 using Tapatalk
Reply:Just noticed you are in Nashville.   If I were going to do it cheap, I would not be giving King anything. I would make scroll benders or picket twister, Even create your own  art. Then, offer those options.  Really trading time for money, however, at least you will have more money, if you aren't interfering with other financial ventures.  Good Luck
Reply:my motto is on my sign for my small side business is "you may be my friend, but my business doesn't know you."
Reply:well, thanks for the thoughts, guys. "old friend" , in this case anyway meant a guy I used to work with and hung out with a few times several years ago. I mean... we're friends on FB but rarely talk any more... and he's got money, so it's not like he really needs a favor. I think he knows I'm hurting and was throwing me a bone. anyway, I told him I could make it look very nice for 600 and he didn't blink. said that's fine, he'll get me half in a few days to buy the materials. I'll post pics when it's done. It'll be pretty straightforward.  and yeah, I've always been happy to do things for friends really cheap or free, but...when it's something that will take me more than a couple of hours, and it's something that will ultimately save them money or make them money, I don't mind getting my piece of pie out of it  this porch is about 6' off the ground with NO rail at all right now..... we all know how ugly that can get if residents are injured.Millermatic 211 Miller Blue Fire 140@swiftwelding on Instagram
Reply:We all have to provide for ourselves and our family. Its good that your friend considered you to do the job instead of the cheapest guy in town. Always nice when friends throw work your way and expect to pay for it. The contrary can become annoying, when they expect it to be done for free "because you are friends"
Reply:Absolute minimum on a basic job is all materials, rental tools etc, then double it for labor.  That dosen't always work out, but it's a starting point which works out to the $600 you are looking at currently.   I believe it is to cheap for many jobs.
Reply:Ok, first he was an "old friend". Now, you knew him once and are his friend on spacebook.My generation really does understand what the term "old friend" means and it has nothing to do with the internet.So whatever man, charge what you want, you'll get lot's of positive on line reinforcement from people who've never made a living quoting a legal welding job. If it's a real paying job then you are way underpriced. You'll dispute that, I understand.But I've fed the kids and bought the farm on my income from my welding business since 1992 when I was a good looking dumb kid. Feel free to give it away. The interweb welding forums are about 75% based on that.Then you'll add that you only work "on the side", you have a "day job". Riiiiiight. The internet welder at work : )Losing his shirt.J
Reply:100 bucks a linear foot, 85 for your sisterface all times with a positive mental attitude,then and only then will you have done your best.
Reply:J- didn't mean to step on your toes, brother. I don't "have a day job" at the moment, I'm actually trying to get my own thing off the ground so I can feed MY KID... but times are hard and I'm asking for some thoughts because I don't have an exact formula for pricing jobs yet.  I figure most welding repair jobs where I don't  have to buy anything at about 25 to 35 an hour dpending on how complicated the work is, and if it's something I have to buy materials all that cost plus a little bit for my time ordering/transporting/etc.  but yeah, I came to the interwebs for some help...you know.... kinda what this forum is here for, man...?  I don't dispute anything.... Just asking for thoughts. and Mike, send me a PM and I'll give you my sister's number. Millermatic 211 Miller Blue Fire 140@swiftwelding on Instagram
Reply:You didn't step on anything.Just don't give it away. Millions have.If you're working self employed, at a rate of $25/hr, you are personaly making about $12/hr give or take a bit. You can flip burgers for that.Nobody listens, OK, but I still say it, don't give it away.JT
Reply:I tried to start my side business at $35 an hour, was I way off. At $35 an hour I was only making $18 an hour after I paid the overhead, that's less than my full time job that's a lot easier. The guy that helped me get going told me from the start I needed to be $55 to $65 to make money and be very reasonable, I'm at $55 an hour now and I'm doing ok.
Reply:I see what you're saying now... I guess it's time to investigate what other established guys in the area are charging per hour... IF people are willing to go that high, that's awesome...but for now, I gotta pay some bills....so...I mean, if "giving it away" pays my bills and keeps food on the table... It's what I gotta do right now.  But I'll keep this in mind and do some research....anyone in Nashville want to tell me what they're charging? Thanks.Millermatic 211 Miller Blue Fire 140@swiftwelding on Instagram
Reply:I get jobs like that a lot. Almost rather not do work for friends. But when it comes to welding I think I'm better than the other folks in my area but thats my opinion... Anyways, unless its in my shop, I charge a one time $60 for the trip even if it takes more than one trip for that job, I mark up price of material I pay for to profit from that headache, unless they supply their own. After that, I charge $60 an hr. If bidding the job, I always double the labor time/ amount. So if its a two hr job, I tell them 4hrs x $60. Sometimes we forget the little extra steps needed to do a job so always bid higher. If you feel guilty when its all said and done, you can always offer a discount. I always try to discount vets, seniors etc. Btw, if you don't charge your friends they will keep using you. I don't mind paying a friend for applying his skills and a true friend shouldn't expect you to use your welding equip, consumables etc so he can have you do his stuff for free or for you to take a loss. When I started making people pay for my services, I got asked less by my friends, and they are still my friends. Just my thoughts.
Reply:sounds good, man.  thanksMillermatic 211 Miller Blue Fire 140@swiftwelding on Instagram