New Guy Weld Questions

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This is my first post here so I am trying avoid the newby mistake of not giving the info that matters.I have no welding experience and am just learning (mainly through Youtube even though I hate to admit that)Hobart Handler 140.30 solid wire with 75/25 gas1/8 steel (I believe)I double checked and the electrodes are connected properly inside the machineHobart says the settings should be 40/4 and I set them thereThe arc sounds funny and I am not getting any penetrationLast edited by danmcph; 04-10-2014 at 10:45 PM.
Reply:Hello and welcome. Take a minute and add your location so we know where you are. With that machine on 1/8", you should have your voltage at max and adjust wire speed accordingly. 4-5 sounds about right without looking the settings up. That thickness is the practical max for that machine under idea real world condition. If you are using a long or light weight extension cord, or you are plugged into a 15 rater than 20 amp circuit or there are other things drawing current off the circuit, your max thickness will be reduced. Also looks like your material could stand to be ground down to bare shiny metal. Scale and rust will soak up power and reduce the thickness you can weld.One thing with newer welders, they tend to got too fast. Go slow and push the weld rather than dragging and that will help some. Try and do some longer welds so we can see what issues you might be having. small 1" welds don't tell us anything. Try to do at least 3" ones, 6" would be better..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:X2 on DSWs post. I know you said you checked, but you have the ground on negative and the gun on positive right? Hold the contact tip 3/8s of an inch away at all times. You can go closer, and a little further, but I believe the settings under the door go along with a 3/8s stick out. That's what my welder shows neways.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:I double checked polarity.  (I switched it when I moved from flux core).  I verified 20 amp breaker.  I was using a 25 foot extension cord (12 gauge) so I removed that issue.  I think I am just maxing my machine out.  It was doing great with flux core, which if I am correct requires less power to do a given size thickness of metal.I have a Millermatic 211 on the way so that should help me out with the problem of to small a machine.  I will do some longer welds and report back but it sounds like my machine is to small.
Reply:Did you switch from a knurled roller to a smoothe ?OH. Forget the door chart. Turn the heat wide open and adjust the wire speed by sound. If it blows a hole, turn it down and regroup.Last edited by Burpee; 04-11-2014 at 07:23 AM.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Yes FC will run a bit hotter on those small machines, but not by much. The MM211 is a very nice unit, but to get the extra output, you have to run it on 230v power. On 110v power it's going to run about as well as that Hobart does. It's the incoming power that is the biggest limitation..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Will the MM211 run on a 30 amp dryer circuit? (For some, that's the only 220v available.)
Reply:Sure will.  It should be able to run at full power on a 230v 30A circuit.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by danmcphI double checked polarity.  (I switched it when I moved from flux core).  I verified 20 amp breaker.  I was using a 25 foot extension cord (12 gauge) so I removed that issue.  I think I am just maxing my machine out.  It was doing great with flux core, which if I am correct requires less power to do a given size thickness of metal.I have a Millermatic 211 on the way so that should help me out with the problem of to small a machine.  I will do some longer welds and report back but it sounds like my machine is to small.
Reply:Millermatic arrived today.  Shop wired today for 220.  Bring on the weekend!Here are some pics and an update.I turned the machine wire speed up to 40 from 60.  Here is the weld front and backsideHere is the front side and back side after I tried to break the weld by smashing the spine with a hammer.  It didn't break, it bent the metal.  While welding the machine "sounded" better, like frying bacon.  YumHow do these look?Last edited by danmcph; 04-12-2014 at 12:43 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by danmcphI turned the machine wire speed up to 60 from 40.  Here is the weld front and backside
Reply:Whoops, long week.  I fixed the post.  It should of said I turned it up from 40 to 60.I was on setting 4 which is the highest my Hobart 140 goes.  I am going to start welding with my new Millermatic tomorrow off a 220 outlet so I will have more power available.Last edited by danmcph; 04-12-2014 at 12:46 AM.
Reply:Why is it that the welds look better at wire speed 60 as opposed to 40 even though the power level was the same?  If I am having problems with a cold weld I thought it would be opposite.
Reply:Sorry I thought from your last post you had switched to the MM211 vs the HH140.Wire speed is tied to amps. More wire speed at a given voltage up the amps slightly. With the slower wire speed the power is used up in the resistance melting the "longer" wire. With the wire speed higher, the distance the wire travels as it melts is decreased because the wire gets closer to the work as it burns. Result is similar to using a shorter stick out. You can often get "hotter" settings by dropping down in wire size and staying at the same voltage because you have to run a faster wire speed to maintain the same fill rate. The machine uses less energy to melt the wire, so you can get more into the material. There is a limit to how this works however as smaller wire also limits how much voltage it will carry max..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I have googled but can't find the answer to this question.Why does flux core allow you to weld thicker metal than solid core on a given machine/settings?
Reply:Originally Posted by danmcphIWhy does flux core allow you to weld thicker metal than solid core on a given machine/settings?
Reply:Here is a new pic:Here are some new welds I did on a flat piece of 1/8" strap.  They were done with my new Millermatic 211.  75/25 gas solid core wire.the welds on the left side were done by pulling the weld, settings 6 and 60.the welds on the right were all done using the automatic settings feature on the welder.  The top and bottom 3 welds were done by pulling the weld.  The center 3 were done pushing the weld.  What looks good?  What looks bad?  What needs improvement?Thanks
Reply:Ok lets start with the basics.. Are you running 110v or 220v power. It makes a difference on settings. 2nd what size wire are you running? Just knowing the settings doesn't mean much if we don't know what your input power is or wire size. Guessing 6/60 would be roughly correct for 110v power on 1/8", but way too high on 220.Beads are so short it's tough to tell much of anything. Turn and run the long ways on the piece. Try and do beads at least 3"-4" long, 6" would be better. That gives enough length to see how things wet out overall and tend to weed out minor inconsistencies. A short bead it's tough to tell if what I'm seeing is due to the way you were welding, or simply a hiccup when you ran the bead. The really narrow beads you dragged look too tall. No big surprise since you were dragging and if on 110v power you are pushing the limits of the machine. Your push beads look really wide. My guess is that you were doing some sort of oscillation like a cursive e pattern with those widening the bead. I'm wondering why the drag beads look so narrow, unless you didn't use an oscillation on those. Toes on the push beads look better washed in than the others do..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Sorry110V.030 wireWhat does "drag to tall mean?I was doing a cursive e type movement on both but probably got carried away pushing?
Reply:The beads are too high above the base material. Beads should have a nice gentle "hill" shape to them. If the beads are too tall, the sides meet the plate more like a cliff than a gentle rise.That can come from a number of things. One being you don't have enough voltage to cause the edges to wet out well. Another being that you simply piled too much weld material in the same spot, something that often happens when dragging the bead. When you push it tends to flatten out the bead more. You simply aren't pushing weld material up over the bead you have already run.This applies to solid wire. With FC wire you always drag..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:These were all done with the same settings etc:Millermatic 211 using 220v  Solid Core wire with 75/25 gas.030Wire Speed 65Voltage 4.5Base plate is 1/8"  Rebar is the verticals (like you couldn't tell)When I posted these pics for some reason the right side of the pic ended up being the top of the pic once posted.There are 3 beads.  The center was done continues.  The top and bottom were both welded, I stopped then continued them towards the end of the plate.You can see in the center of this pic where I ground the bead down on the above welds in the center so you couldn't see them.  Also to weld the rebar I tacked the left and right side of each piece of rebar, then I tacked another tack on the side away from the camera in the above picture.  Then I welded the side towards the camera with a half moon weld around the last side to be welded.  It looks like I undercut on the right side in the above pic.Okay the above pic is ugly (but all my welds are at this point)  Here you can see I did a tack on the L and R side of each piece of rebar, then one more tack in the center.  After I had welded the semi circle on the side away from the camera I came back and put another weld in between each of the prior tacks.Soooo.....   What do I need to do to make the welds turn out better.  What is the best sequence of welds to do when welding something like this rebar to the plate vertically?ThanksLast edited by danmcph; 04-20-2014 at 01:00 AM.
Reply:Welds and tacks on small round stock is always tough. Small round stock it's tough to swing the gun fast enough to maintain a consistent angle of the gun to the work and maintain a consistent stick out. Tacks form big "blobs" that are hard to weld over. You can take a grinder to the tacks and "thin" them some so you can just run over the tacks. It takes a bit of practice to learn how small you can grind the tacks and still have them hold. With bigger stuff, you can weld some, then come back and grind the tacks and finish the weld, but that's not easy with small things like this.Rebar doesn't always weld well. Some rebar is designed for welded connections and welds fine. Other rebar is "junk" recast and turns brittle when welded. Not knowing what this is for, it's tough to make suggestions about how to improve the joint design to give you good strength with "junk" bar.As far as improving your regular welds we need to start with the basics. But joints are the hardest to do well, especially tight butted joints like you have here. Before we get you dialed in on but joints though we need to get you making nice smooth consistent beads 1st.Get yourself some clean flat plate 1/8" thick, say 3" wide at least 6" long. If you can't get that we can work with some angle iron instead, but the flat is easier to see what you did. If right handed, start on the right with the gun pointing left and "push" the bead. You'll need to get your head out in front of he gun so you  look down the nozzle to see well. Take your time and concentrate on keeping you gun angle, travel speed and distance for work to gun as consistent as possible. "stick out" distance form gun to work should be about 3/8" to 1/2" roughly. Gun should be tilted back away from direction of travel to about 1 o'clock. I prefer to have new guys just move in a straight line at 1st with no motion to keep things simple, but you can do circles or C's if you feel comfortable. Key is everything must be consistent. You don't want OOOOooOOOoooooOOoOoOOooo when you do this. You want all your circles to be exactly the same OOOOO or oooooo. You are going to make the beads at least 5" long when you run the beads. Get yourself comfortable and if need be set yourself up so you can rest your hands arms on the table to help with support.As far as machine settings, it's tough to say right now. I'd start off with what the machine suggests for 220v power and we can adjust from there. How you weld will change how we need to set the machine. I like to weld a bit slower than some do, so I set my settings slightly different than others might. With students I make changes based on how I see them weld and the end results. This is where consistency and longer beads help. Based on what you tell me and the picts, I can make educated guesses as to what we need to work on or change. One of the down sides of doing all this by remote vs working one on one with someone..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You need to grind the oil primer off the metal.
Reply:Is oil primer the same thing as mill scale?  I thought I could weld through the mill scale with a MIG.  On a sidenote, I have been looking for a good book on the basics of welding an fab but can't seem to figure out which book is best.  (Or even decent for that matter)
Reply:Here are some longer welds.  Same settings etc as the pictures above.The left bead was done straight with no OOOO's etc but at a slow (I think) speed.The middle bead was done fasterThe right was done with an OOOOOOO pattern.I pushed the bead.Mill scale or oil primer same thing, you can't get a clean weld with it. You can't mig weld metal with crap on it and have it look good. Watch in front off the weld puddle, some mill scale will peel back, some will burn into the weld , pop and spatter.
Reply:Left hand weld looks fairly good. A closer pict would allow me to make better observations, but overall it looks pretty close to what you want to see.Center weld is too fast. Bead looks narrow and ropey in several places. A few spots might be borderline decent. I'd need closer picts to see the toes and see how tall they are in relation to the bead as a whole.Right bead is very inconsistent and is a bit wide. When you do circles, you need to increase your speed slightly to compensate for the fact you are in the puddle longer. Upper 1/2 of the bead is a bit fast. You can tell that from the fact the bead has a V shape to it.  Bead is on the wide side of acceptable, smaller circles would cut down the width some. Some areas look fair, but again I'd need close ups to point out any details for you too look at. Lower section of this bead isn't too bad. Speed looks close and other than the fact it's a bit wide, it's not too bad from what I can see.You look like you are doing well, just keep practicing..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Does this help at all?
Reply:Question: If some rebar is junk metal and some isn't is there a way to tell the difference?  I bought my rebar from my local metal supply store where I buy all my metal.Here are some new welds.  Same settings as all the prior welds.  I ground all the mill scale off the metal before welding it as was suggested above.In between the two grind marks I drew an arrow that points to a feature in the weld.  I am not sure what caused it.  It is about 1/2-1mm tall and juts out of the weld like a tower at a 45 degree angle.Bottom weld in between the two grind marks the weld has some weird surface pattern.  What caused that?
Reply:Originally Posted by asdfWill the MM211 run on a 30 amp dryer circuit? (For some, that's the only 220v available.)
Reply:If the material comes from a good steel yard you can ask if it's weldable rebar. I'd have to dig a bit to come up with the numbers for weldable rebar. My AWS books are on PDF in the other computer. Otherwise assume it's "junk" and use it accordingly. The vast majority of rebar doesn't need to be weldable for code use as it's usually tied rather than welded, so most stuff isn't.In your 1st pict the beads look like you were traveling a bit fast. Note the pointed shape to the beads. In the 2nd pict it looks like you slowed down some. Bead 3rd from the right doesn't look bad. Ones on either side are fair but are inconsistent in places. Far right bead you may have dragged the nozzle thru the puddle if you were pushing and your gun angle was too steep. Hard to see exactly what was going on there, but that's a common thing I see new guys do that gives an odd appearance to the bead when everything else seems to be decent..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan