Gas lens - what for? Diversion 180

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hi allSo, I talked about it for a while and finally made the leap.  Picked up my own TIG machine - a Miller Diversion 180.  I TIG welded my own turbo manifold years ago on a Snap-On scratch start DC-only setup w/ no foot control.  I kind of just "did it" and it was "ok" but not great.  The machine was probably fine for me but I didn't have any training and it didn't have some basic features to make the most of the situation.  Fast forward now - I have TIG'd here and there on friends machines (including that Snap-On unit) and have one of my own.  I remember a buddy buying a gas lens for his Syncrowave 200 machine and saying how he liked it better, etc.What does the gas lens do for you vs a ceramic cup?  I understand it smooths out gas flow, but... is it notably better?  Further, is there a "buy this kit" for my Diversion 180 w/ weldcraft 17 torch?  I see on different sites that you need this lens, this part, this part, that part, but is there a whole one-piece kit?Glad to be part of the blue crew!  I hope to get good at this thing!
Reply:Pick a kithttp://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=....c0.m270.l1313I went to my supply store and told them I had a 180 and wanted a gas lens kit so they grabbed everything I needed and it was around $8To me it makes a huge difference. I haven't taken it off since I got it. It's been on there, same cup and all for months.HTP has a kit which is more money because of the clean cup. www.usaweld.com or get it herehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Standard-Dia...ht_2571wt_1139It was great, but the cup just fits in there snug so after awhile my torch hit the ground and it shattered. Not happy since that part alone is $15.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Make sure whatever kit you buy has the correct size insulator, or insulator adapter.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Congrats on your new 180. You are going to love doing AC with it. It does have a rather low duty cycle, but the designers made it easy as pie to get up and running. Some people love the gas lenses, as I do. And some people just never get on with them. Your machine has an aircooled torch, so you will want to flow the extra gas to cool the torch, so gas savings is a bit moot in your case. But if you need a bit more stickout of the tungsten, a gas lense setup is very helpful.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Is it worthwhile over a standard ceramic cup?Not sure I get the whole transparent cup thing either
Reply:Very worthwhile over the standard cup!!!The pryex cup is clear so you can see more and it makes everything seem brighter. Probably be good if you have a cheap helmet.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:A gas lens replaces the standard collet body. You'll still use a cup, though it will be sized to fit the thread on the gas lens as opposed to the standard collet body. I generally use #7 cups for steel with a gas lens.I think they are worthwhile if you need a lot of stick-out. I have to run my tungsten out pretty far sometimes to get in some tight spots between tubes. But if you are generally running the suggested amount of tungsten extension, you will probably be fine with regular collet bodies.IMG_0013 by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr
Reply:Originally Posted by zankA gas lens replaces the standard collet body. You'll still use a cup, though it will be sized to fit the thread on the gas lens as opposed to the standard collet body. I generally use #7 cups for steel with a gas lens.I think they are worthwhile if you need a lot of stick-out. I have to run my tungsten out pretty far sometimes to get in some tight spots between tubes. But if you are generally running the suggested amount of tungsten extension, you will probably be fine with regular collet bodies.IMG_0013 by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr
Reply:Thanks all - I just opened the Diversion 180 box and saw that the included tungsten has a grayish band which I have read is Lanthanated tungsten.  The 180 is supposed to ship with ceriated.  Just want to know what I got here.  I went to the LWS and picked up two new brushes for stainless and aluminum, some 308L rod (3/32) and a tank of straight argon.  I also ordered a pack of 10 7" ceriated tungsten.Is ceriated a good start?  I don't like the hazard (even if minimal) associated with Thoriated.Zank that looks fantastic.  What materials and machine?
Reply:I think most people have recommended 1.5% lanthanated for most things if you don't like thoriated.I weld so infrequently that I don't mind using thoriated, but once I'm done with these I'll probably switch to lanthanated. I started using a respirator while welding/grinding anyway, just cuz I'm tired of blowing black **it outta my nose when I'm done working on metal projects.Hobart EZ-Tig newbie.
Reply:Grey is the new color for 2% ceriated. Orange is the old color.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thanks - stupid me, I just realized the tag on the torch said "Gray is now Ceriated" - oook.Ceriated is no good for "all around" use?
Reply:Ceriated is supposed to be good from all around use. However personally I don't like it.Thoriated is by far my favorite.Then 2% lanthanted (blue) is a close second.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:kidtigger, I have a batch of frames coming back from powdercoat next week. I'll pop a picture up when I get them.Jon, the material is 0.028" and 0.035" wall steel. Machine is a Lincoln Square Wave TIG 175. 1/16" 2% Lanthanated electrode. I prefer a more blunt point compared to a needle point. 0.045 filler wire. Gas lens and #7 cup.
Reply:I posted a similar question a while back on here. I was confused and thought the gas lens could only be used with the clear cup. Not true. There is a different set up available that uses with ceramic cups. It's nice as the glass cups are delicate, just ask me how I know LOL. Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2How do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleVery worthwhile over the standard cup!!!The pryex cup is clear so you can see more and it makes everything seem brighter. Probably be good if you have a cheap helmet.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255I thought that putting a gas lens on would help my terrible aluminum welds look better.  After all, it couldn't possibly be that I sucked and had no experience, it had to be something wrong with the machine?  (WRONG!).
Reply:Originally Posted by Jon KThanks all - Is ceriated a good start?  I don't like the hazard (even if minimal) associated with Thoriated.
Reply:Originally Posted by JoshfromsaltlakeThorium has a half life that is greater than the known age of the universe. Unless you do nothing but grind tungstens all day, you're in more danger sitting in your basement reading this. Some people's basements tend be more radioactive than normal due to radon gas coming from the bedrock. Of course if you smoke, then thorium and radon is probably the least of your worries.
Reply:I showed you a few kits in the ebay link. Just buy a "kit" it will have the cup, collet, collet body, screen/filter, and the white cap. I think that is everything.EDIT: Check this out it has a really good picturehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/SR-PTA-DB-WP...item5d326f1705Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Thanks Gamble I missed your link my apologies.Ok so next question is, I have some 1/16" filler coming but some people who weld have told me to try out some 0.040 or 0.045" fill rod.  I would love to!  I just can't find any!  Called my LWS and they have 1/16" only.  So, where do guys get rod that small?  I know I can buy a spool of wire but that's a PITA and I am not sure it comes 0.045 for instance.  Any thoughts?Thanks all!
Reply:Did you look at ebay or www.cyberweld.com ? I never used anything other na 1/16th so I'm really not help here Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I usually simply use mig wire for stuff that small simply because I don't need filler that small regularly, and have rolls of mig wire on hand. Mig wire comes in .045, .035, .030, .023 and even larger sizes for large industrial migs. In small 2lb rolls .023-.035 is very common. I haven't had a need for small rolls of .045 wire. I have a large roll I steal some standard wire from as needed and I have stainless in a large .065 roll IIRC as well as a smaller 2 lb roll.  I usually stick wire in a vise and wrap a screw driver around the other end and "stretch" it to straighten it out if I need to. IIRC someone one time suggested putting the one end in a vise and chucking the 2nd end in a drill and spinning it to straighten it, but I've never tried that. The .065 wire I usually just bend slightly and ignore the bent shape.A quick search on Google pulls up IOC selling 10 lb boxes of .035 and .045 tig wire in various filler types. I didn't bother to hunt to see if they sell 1 lb boxes or not.http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.co...%29/Categories.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks DSWI found that Arc Zone carries 0.045" 36" rods, so I ordered 2lb of 308L and 1 lb of 70
Reply:Sure a lot of bad info (regarding gas lenses) put out by a bunch of people who haven't done their homework and have little experience.  (Not referring to you DSW)Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.Can you correct the bad info or clarify?  I am sticking to the standard ceramic cup for now, but would like to hear both sides.
Reply:Sorry, all out of spoons (for spoon feeding) this week.All the info regarding gas lenses is out there for the taking.Even in this thread, some good info was put out.  Unfortunately it gets lost in the noise when a bunch of guys who don't know jack sh1t chime in with there BS responses.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:SundownIII, do you use a gas lens? I think Jody on welding tips and tricks says he does all the time. I ordered a set and I'll get it tomorrow. Should be interesting to see if I like it.Miller diversion 165Miller mig 211Hypertherm pm 30Milwaukee 6230 14 inch chop sawMd 45 mag drill (RIP; fell on its head)New MD 45! Thanks to the esposa!Finally got an O/A setup
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIISorry, all out of spoons (for spoon feeding) this week.All the info regarding gas lenses is out there for the taking.Even in this thread, some good info was put out.  Unfortunately it gets lost in the noise when a bunch of guys who don't know jack sh1t chime in with there BS responses.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jon KCongrats -  glad you got that off your chest.If you don't want to contribute you don't to post.  If you think the topic is beat to death, don't read it.Leave the sarcasm/attitude at the door man, I don't think anyone cares that you're bored.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelson1-In this thread it appears that you haven't said what SS thickness and what type of fab you're even doing, while scrambling around for various electrode and filler sizes.The thickness and joint type has everything to do with this selection, especially on SS.2-If you'll do a site search on gas lens, what you'll find will help you understand more. You're short-changing yourself if you haven't done this.(For what it's worth, I use lenses exclusively--unless it's a really tight joint that requiresa small, long, standard cup arrangement. But...I'm new at this tiggin' with only 10K hours onthe bench. Some of the guys here have multiples of that.)3-It gets old when we see the same basic questions/mistakes/screw-ups repeated week after week by folks that apparently demand spoon feeding; coming on as being too self-important and buzzee to bother with studying the results of a search. That's what Sundown III is referring to, I believe.The capper is seeing the OP--yourself, in this case, then blow off these suggestions!
Reply:Originally Posted by Jon KLook I have over 35,000 posts on a BMW forum and see the same questions day in day out, but I either don't click them because I know where it heads or if I do read them I will throw out a brief, to-the-point, matter-of-fact, helpful response if I really feel in the mood.  I won't tell a guy that my spoon collection is out for polishing and that "some info in here sucks".  That's a crappy attitude and there's enough of that in the world already.Yes I am sure I can search and I have searched and I have found a mixture of responses.  If no one asked any questions that were repetitive we could lock the forum and just make it an archival source.
Reply:A gas lens is not the same thing as a clear glass gas cup. They're totally different.A gas lens is basically a larger collet body with a screen that eliminates some of the turbulence in the gas flow, allowing you to have more stickout of the tungsten, because the smooth flow of the argon covers it better.A clear glass gas cup is just a clear glass gas cup. It doesn't have anything to do with a gas lens.Here's a comparison between a gas lens (on left) and "normal" collet body and gas cup (on right):If you had done a search for "gas lens" you probably would have found a dozen threads explaining this.Got it?Last edited by Kelvin; 04-20-2012 at 01:29 PM.
Reply:The pyrex kit has a screen/filter just like the gas lens though, so how are they not the same?Here is the descriptionhttp://www.usaweld.com/Pyrex-Cup-Kit...yrex17lkit.htm The Pyrex Cup kit also comes standard with our special gas saver gas lens kit. Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:For Jon K,You're well on your way to being the "poster boy" for the definition of lazy.You've been on the forum for six dang years and futzing with tig for the whole time.  It would appear that your SOLE source for information is asking the same old questions that have already been answered time and time again.How do people think the oldtimers learned to weld before the advent of the internet.The problem with an internet forum is that for every bit of good information you receive, you'll also get garbage that will only further confuse the issue.  Going back and reading some of your previous posts, it's clear that in the six years you've been "playing with tig", you have done little to further your knowledge of the process or the equipment involved.  You keep looking for that "silver bullet" that will make you a tig welder, but are unwilling to put forth the effort to improve your lot.I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  No one will ever become proficient at welding (be it tig or whatever) if their only source for information is a welding forum.  In the old days, if you had a question about a process or equipment, you went to the library and checked out books on the subject, talked to the oldtimers, and then went to the bench and found what worked for you.Now, with the advent of the internet you have to deal with the BS from guys who don't know jack themselves interjecting their 2 cents worth.  BS comments about pyrex cups and ceramic cups, gas lenses don't do crap, etc, etc.I will say that in six years of dealing with tig welding, if you haven't yet figured out what a gas lens is and what it can do for you, then you're a REAL SLOW LEARNER and you've got a real uphill battle in mastering the tig process.  Unfortunately, from some of the other comments in this thread, you're not alone.Oh, and in response to another poster's question.  I use a gas lens setup for at least 90% of the tig welding I do.  The only time I've found a standard collet body to be advantageous is in tight situations where the size of the gas lens would interfere with the ability to access the weld.  Even this, can often times be handled with increased stickout, which the gas lens allows for.If I had my way, Miller's Handbook for GTAW would be "required reading" for all new "want to be" tig welders.  Lincoln also has a good handbook for the basics, but the Miller handbook goes into more detail.  If our new guys would simply read and study the referenced handbooks, 80+% of our repeated "basic questions" would not need to be asked.For those questioning where I'm coming from, please go back and read the OP's posts over the last six (6) years.  After 6 years, he's still looking to be spoon fed.  At some point, he needs to learn to use a knife, fork AND spoon.PS.  This is the same OP that several years back, ordered SS "rods" for tig welding.  Couldn't figure out why they were so thick except for the ends.  Solution was to just knock the flux off.Last edited by SundownIII; 04-20-2012 at 01:56 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:You need to realize that it's not the "old days" and things are very very different now. If you are so stuck in the old days then get off the internet.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIFor Jon K,You're well on your way to being the "poster boy" for the definition of lazy.You've been on the forum for six dang years and futzing with tig for the whole time.  It would appear that your SOLE source for information is asking the same old questions that have already been answered time and time again.How do people think the oldtimers learned to weld before the advent of the internet.The problem with an internet forum is that for every bit of good information you receive, you'll also get garbage that will only further confuse the issue.  Going back and reading some of your previous posts, it's clear that in the six years you've been "playing with tig", you have done little to further your knowledge of the process or the equipment involved.  You keep looking for that "silver bullet" that will make you a tig welder, but are unwilling to put forth the effort to improve your lot.I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  No one will ever become proficient at welding (be it tig or whatever) if their only source for information is a welding forum.  In the old days, if you had a question about a process or equipment, you went to the library and checked out books on the subject, talked to the oldtimers, and then went to the bench and found what worked for you.Now, with the advent of the internet you have to deal with the BS from guys who don't know jack themselves interjecting their 2 cents worth.  BS comments about pyrex cups and ceramic cups, gas lenses don't do crap, etc, etc.I will say that in six years of dealing with tig welding, if you haven't yet figured out what a gas lens is and what it can do for you, then you're a REAL SLOW LEARNER and you've got a real uphill battle in mastering the tig process.  Unfortunately, from some of the other comments in this thread, you're not alone.Oh, and in response to another poster's question.  I use a gas lens setup for at least 90% of the tig welding I do.  The only time I've found a standard collet body to be advantageous is in tight situations where the size of the gas lens would interfere with the ability to access the weld.  Even this, can often times be handled with increased stickout, which the gas lens allows for.If I had my way, Miller's Handbook for GTAW would be "required reading" for all new "want to be" tig welders.  Lincoln also has a good handbook for the basics, but the Miller handbook goes into more detail.  If our new guys would simply read and study the referenced handbooks, 80+% of our repeated "basic questions" would not need to be asked.For those questioning where I'm coming from, please go back and read the OP's posts over the last six (6) years.  After 6 years, he's still looking to be spoon fed.  At some point, he needs to learn to use a knife, fork AND spoon.PS.  This is the same OP that several years back, ordered SS "rods" for tig welding.  Couldn't figure out why they were so thick except for the ends.  Solution was to just knock the flux off.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleYou need to realize that it's not the "old days" and things are very very different now. If you are so stuck in the old days then get off the internet.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jon K100% agree
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonIs that why libraries across the country are closing?This is a "MAN'S" gas lense.
Reply:Ah, the good old WW. I thought I was in the Longevity Forum for a few minutes.
Reply:[QUOTE=DSW;1055751 IIRC someone one time suggested putting the one end in a vise and chucking the 2nd end in a drill and spinning it to straighten it, but I've never tried that. The .065 wire I usually just bend slightly and ignore the bent shape.[/QUOTE]That would be me I think DSW I mentioned once I have gotten 3 pieces of 316 wire 0.8mm and in a drill twisted them to finish a Tig job , not do one .Even though I didnt have to I tried it with 3 bits of 1.2mm Ally .... didnt work as the individual Mig wires still acted individually and  would tend to fall away on approach to the puddleA good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinA gas lens is not the same thing as a clear glass gas cup. They're totally different.A gas lens is basically a larger collet body with a screen that eliminates some of the turbulence in the gas flow, allowing you to have more stickout of the tungsten, because the smooth flow of the argon covers it better.A clear glass gas cup is just a clear glass gas cup. It doesn't have anything to do with a gas lens.Here's a comparison between a gas lens (on left) and "normal" collet body and gas cup (on right):If you had done a search for "gas lens" you probably would have found a dozen threads explaining this.Got it?
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettWow now that is a definitive photo...Thing is whilst it seems that a lot of the pros here use them (and I am not in their class) I have never used one , but Ive never needed one . I strikes me that if you need one you are doing something wrong. DSW's veiws on stick out seem a  valid explaination.. But that does not negate the need to find what your doing wrong (or at least what you could be doing better)They dont seem to be common over here , neither are Spool Guns for that matter.
Reply:i give up.  44 posts on this thread and you're still sticking with ' lense';  now i am very familiar with so cal and i could understand;  lente, lentes, lentes oscuros, but for the life of me i can find no 'lense'.    german?  swedish?  dutch?or maybe a trap laid for spelling pedants?Last edited by fdcmiami; 04-22-2012 at 12:39 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by fdcmiamii give up.  44 posts on this thread and you're still sticking with ' lense';  now i am very familiar with so cal and i could understand;  lente, lentes, lentes oscuros, but for the life of me i can find no 'lense'.    german?  swedish?  dutch?or maybe a trap laid for spelling pedants?
Reply:I don't use a gas lens at all...I see no difference unless you need 3 feet of tungsten stick out.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThe gas lense is a tool, so is a spoolgun. If you don't know how to use a tool, you certainly don't need one. Connect the dots Brett.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI see no difference unless you need 3 feet of tungsten stick out.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettNot sure I 100% follow what you mean by that ....From the photo supplied it seems it is far more effective  in directing sheilding gas to the puddle and so should be embraced as any improvement should be.Personally I suspect I would find the increase in diameter cumbersome , I'm sure it would be tempory though.How much can you reduce your gas flow by, in your experience ? Is it significant ?I still stand by my observation that if your welds are not up to scratch with a normal cup , some area of the individuals technique needs addressing.Brett