barb wire project

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I just bought a 115v 70amp Campbell Hausfeld stick welder (cheapo under $80)to start a barb wire sculpture.  I am brand spankin new to this! Any tips on spot welding barb wire?  which sticks would be the easiest to use?  what to NOT do?any help would be great!Mike
Reply:Hello and welcome.Stick isn't the greatest choice for this sort of thing. the process in general isn't well suited for small thin metal like wire. Your small machine will not run well with rods over 5/64" and you will most likely be using 1/16" rods simply due to the ease of locating that size. Rod selection will be limited in that size. 6011 rods may be too hot even with those small rods. 6013 may be a better bet.A better choice might be a small 110v mig unit using solid wire and gas. Even a small flux core only wire feed may give you better results than a stick unit.You might take a minute and add your location to your profile so we know where you are located. You might find someone local who can help you out..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWHello and welcome.Stick isn't the greatest choice for this sort of thing. the process in general isn't well suited for small thin metal like wire. Your small machine will not run well with rods over 5/64" and you will most likely be using 1/16" rods simply due to the ease of locating that size. Rod selection will be limited in that size. 6011 rods may be too hot even with those small rods. 6013 may be a better bet.A better choice might be a small 110v mig unit using solid wire and gas. Even a small flux core only wire feed may give you better results than a stick unit.You might take a minute and add your location to your profile so we know where you are located. You might find someone local who can help you out.
Reply:I don't know guys.  ironheart_ram did an awful lot on small stuff with his stick machine before he got a wire feeder.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Yea but...Ironheart + stick = Human abnormality.   Just like ZTFab + tig = freak of nature.   those two are exceptions to the rule. "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:Yeah Duane, I didn't say it wasn't possible, just thinking that a new guy who just picks up the machine with zero skill level might have an easier time with wire vs stick. Just pull the trigger and tack.I was always amazed at what Mario was able to produce with stick even when he started out..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:1/16 will fight a noob. Turn it wide open and use a 3/32 6013.Turn it down a little at a time until it quits cutting the wire in half.You'll be 45-55 amps and it will stick too often. Up a little.Practice. A LOT.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Ok so I have been playing with the barb wire and it is getting clear to see it will not tack like I want it to without making a spot that usually burns through 1 of the wires.  I do like the stick welder for a beefier use but my wire project is probably not the best use for it.  My budget is limited and my store options are limited to Harbor Freight, Lowes, Home Depot and Tractor Supply. I could go a little over $200 without the wife killing me.  Any model ideas and type, I think I would like to stick to flux since I have no experience with gas.  Also my garage is connected to the house and I think a gas tank would freak out the wife thanks againMike
Reply:Originally Posted by godsdad010. I could go a little over $200 without the wife killing me.  Any model ideas and type, I think I would like to stick to flux since I have no experience with gas.  Also my garage is connected to the house and I think a gas tank would freak out the wife thanks againMike
Reply:For the record, gas (MIG) is cleaner than flux core when welding 'cause there's very little smoke unlike flux core.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Really looking for good advice here for a true newb here. would a FCAW work well for tacking barb wire? and any suggestions in a cheaper model?
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55For the record, gas (MIG) is cleaner than flux core when welding 'cause there's very little smoke unlike flux core.
Reply:OK here's the problem. Cheap machines like HF have a number of issues. #1 QC is spotty at best and erratic wire feed is a typical issue with these machines. Some are fine, some are fair and many are down right abysmal. No way to know without using it. Then the question with new guys is the poor weld due to you, or the machine? I've had plenty of guys bring their HF units into class so I can help them with them. If I can't get the unit to perform well, there's no way a new student will ever have a chance. #2 is that these cheap units have very limited controls at best. In some cases you get 2 settings, high and low, other may have 4. This means that you are very limited in how well you can control the heat. FC is naturally a fairly "hot" process. However with only 110v power available, it limits your top end. so you have a machine with a very narrow window of usefulness. It's too hot for thin stuff and not hot enough for thicker stuff. 16ga is about the thinnest that is easy to deal with and 1/8" is about the max under perfect conditions. With thin wire, you'll be playing on the thin end of the scale. It will be better than stick, but still a bit tough to work with.Better units cost more money unfortunately. You have to pay to play. Units that use gas will weld with smaller wire and can weld thinner material than Fc will. I don't think barbed wire using C25 gas and .023 solid wire would be all that tough. Also most gas capable migs give you more setting control that the cheaper units making them easier to dial down even using FC wire. Top end units like the Millers that have infinite voltage control are very easy to dial down, but tapped units like the Hobarts can do the job with more practice. Of the decent units, Hobarts are typically the least expensive new. Millers the most. Lincolns fall in between since Lincoln makes machines for the home center market where price is the driving factor and more expensive units for the welding supply stores. Store brands like Craftsmans and Northern tool units fall some where in between HF junk and Hobart units typically. Quality is better than HF stuff, but they are still not as smooth as the name brand units.Used is a good way to get decent machines at lower prices. A lot of guys quickly outgrow small 110v migs, so they show up semi often. Down side is many guys want to get almost new pricing for these. At best most are not worth more than 50% of new when used. If you want to widen your CL search, try Searchtempest.com. I use the search term "welder" and sort the list manually to see if I can find any deals..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Have you thought about brazing? If you will paint it after sticking it together (the joint will be bronze colored), you can braze it with $50 in torch and supplies. Get a mapp gas kit from Home Depot or the like. I prefer a can of flux and bare bronze (low fuming bronze) brazing rods to the white flux coated stuff home depot has (it's way too big for barbed wire anyway). Amazon has brazing rods, or your LWS. A third hand device (weighted base with alligator clip on an arm) is great for positioning pieces as you stick them together. Small investment to get started, and if you keep with it you can buy a little MIG (or better torch like I did).
Reply:Braze is best for your situation. Don't be afraid to buy a used "quality" machine. A lot of guys here will be happy to give you the skinny on buying used.Arcon Workhorse 300MSPowcon 400SMTPowcon SM400 x 2Powcon SM3001968 SA200 Redface1978 SA250 DieselMiller Super 32P FeederPre 1927 American 14" High Duty LatheK&T Milwaukee 2H Horizontal MillBryan
Reply:Another vote for brazing your projects.Given the choice of MIG, TIG, Stick, and Brazing,I would choose to braze the barbed wire art.You might also use a 3rd hand tool similar to this one to hold your work:
Reply:So I purchased a torch and some flux coated bronze sticks and gave it a try on connecting crossed barb wire it worked GREAT! better then I could have imagined! Made a nice strong low profile joint without removing any of the antirust protection that was on the wire.  My stick welder will still be used for bigger connections but for the small stuff it is brazing rods for sure. Now to look for a "3rd hand" looks very handy (bad pun).  Thanks again for the great advice!
Reply:I have never used brazing.  I thought you would have to use O/A or O/P to braze.  So a MAPP torch (with the pencil flame tip) would work for brazing?  If so, great!  I will give that a try.
Reply:Shortfuse, the question with brazing is whether or not you can get the material hot enough with the unit you have. With steel, usually you have to get the steel red to orange hot to get it to braze. You need to get the base material hot enough to melt the filler material. With small steel wire, that may be possible..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWShortfuse, the question with brazing is whether or not you can get the material hot enough with the unit you have. With steel, usually you have to get the steel red to orange hot to get it to braze. You need to get the base material hot enough to melt the filler material. With small steel wire, that may be possible.
Reply:You'll need the rod and the flux. I prefer the bare rod and the separate flux myself.Also you can forge braze. You use the forge to get the parts hot vs a torch. It's kind of a neat thing to play around with once you get the flux and rod. Brazing is pretty much like solder. Clean the pieces well, flux, and get the base material hot enough that it melts the filler. Only reall difference is brazing rod melts at a higher temp than lead/tin solder. silver "solder" is really more of a braze than a solder..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou'll need the rod and the flux. I prefer the bare rod and the separate flux myself.Also you can forge braze. You use the forge to get the parts hot vs a torch. It's kind of a neat thing to play around with once you get the flux and rod. Brazing is pretty much like solder. Clean the pieces well, flux, and get the base material hot enough that it melts the filler. Only reall difference is brazing rod melts at a higher temp than lead/tin solder. silver "solder" is really more of a braze than a solder.
Reply:I have a quart can of flux that I bough when a place went out of business many, many moons ago, and I've been very slowly using it since. I'd have to dig to locate it. You don't need much. I sprinkle a bit where the braze joint is and I heat the rod a bit and dip it in the can to coat the rod occasionally. Rod is just plain brazing rod my place stocks.I don't usually have a great need for brazing now that I have so many welders. It's still nice on some decorative projects and on occasional small cast iron repairs. It's been 3 maybe 4 years since I really needed to braze unless you count pipe soldering.Somewhere I had a bunch of packs of those coated rods you can buy at Sears etc for brazing, but they never worked all that well for me at the time, I think I picked them up at the same close out. My guess is at the time I was limited with my heating tools and I jsut couldn't get the material hot enough to melt the largish rods.I think Denrep here and probably Castweld have done brazing threads. Wouldn't surprise me if Irish or Duane had done one as well. I'm too lazy today to dig any up. I'm sure that there is a ton of stuff over on IFI as well on this..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Flux powder is typically mostly borax. Many guys use the old 20 mule team borax sold as a cleaning/home supply. I just got some from my LWS. I touch the rod to the flame for <1 sec, then dip in the flux and apply to the joint. It will turn into a glassy coating often, which is best removed by heating the piece to barely show color, then hit it with water to shock the glass off. I also use sulfuric acid (battery acid diluted by 1/2) to soak my brass/copper sculptures, which makes the flux come off with a fine wire dremel wheel easily. I don't think you want to put steel in sulphuric acid though.You can buy all the supplies you need on amazon, I am happy with the anchor brand low fuming bronze rods I've bought from there, cheapest per lb I've seen local or online ($3.20/lb in a 10 lb box).
Reply:DSW and Duece,Thanks for the brazing info.  I have borax for blacksmith welding so I'll just use it and plain rod.Ok here is my follow up to my original post...FINALLY!Brazing was the way to go for this as it was fast, easy, cheap, and stronger then I expected.  Also I purchased 2 of those "third hand" and they helped a LOT.  Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread, it helped me a ton and I am guessing a few others also. Thank you all!Here is my completed project.(the pic does not do it justice, unfortunately)
Reply:you'll probably be buttwelding or t-jointing barbedwire.. try some 3/32 6010 at 60 amps..be cheaper than gas..
Reply:Originally Posted by godsdad010Really looking for good advice here for a true newb here. would a FCAW work well for tacking barb wire? and any suggestions in a cheaper model?