3/32" 7018AC setting uphill/horizontal/overhead

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Just looking for a good starting point on what amperage to run.never used 7018 before, but i'm expecting great thing   if the rod don't make pretty welds, my grinder will I'll be using an old Linde AC buzz box.  box recommends 80-100 amps (IIRC)will be welding 1/8" thick angle to square tube roughly the same thickness or slightly thinner.  will be using the angle to plate over a tear in the corner of the tube.  it will all be lap welds, horizontal, vertical and overhead.just looking for a starting point, i'll dial it in by feel from there.thanks for any help!I'll probably post pics in the projects forum when i get it done, then let the safety police tell me everything i did wrong
Reply:80-100 amps sounds about right, at least on DC. AC amps some times have to be set higher than DC depending on the rod manufacturer. 90 would be where I'd start and adjust from there based on how the puddle performs. Note that not all AC buzz boxes will run 7018 rods well, even if those rods are 7018AC. You'll need to see how well your particular unit likes them. Some times changing brands will make a difference as not all 7018AC rods are created equal. If you are unlucky enough to have a machine that doesn't like 7018, then I'd suggest trying 7014 instead. It's a rod that often runs very well on AC and you don't give up a lot on average projects over 7018..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:7014 runs awesome on 1/8 steel.Get a box of 3/32 7014, about 90-100amps.7018 is overkill, as much as I hate to say it....Last edited by AKweldshop; 05-17-2014 at 12:05 PM.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Those rods like voltage, should work with that buzz box.Burn them up and replace with 7014 or 7024.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:interesting that you all recommend 7014.i was actually hoping to find some 3/32 7014, but all the welding supply stores close before i can get to them after work, so the only place left that has a decent selection is TSC.  and as it happens, they don't sell 3/32 7014.  they sell 5/32, though i can't imagine why.i do have plenty of 3/32 6013, but i've not had much success with those.  they seem very finicky, and if the metal isn't spotless they just run like poop.7014 is what i wanted, but 7018AC was all i could find at TSC.thanks for the suggestions.  i'll try some flat beads first to see if they run well on my machine.  if not, maybe i'll try the 6013.  and if those don't work, i can try some 6011, or put the project off until next week and get some 7014 over my lunch break.thanks again!
Reply:It might not be worth much but I think you would be happier using 1/8" anything than 3/32".
Reply:i've got plenty of 1/8" 7014.  suppose i could try that and see how it goes.i wanted the 3/32 because i have a very hard time getting an arc to start on any rod when down at the minimum.  whereas, with a thinner rod i can run toward the maximum and the arc starts much easier.worth a try though.
Reply:If you have some 3/32 7018, that will do just great.7014 strikes easier, if your making lots of short welds.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:well, my welder HATED the 7018.  all it wanted to do was throw sparks.  i couldn't even get a good tack out of it.ended up using 6013.  not my first choice, but as it turned out there was no way on god's green earth that an 1/8" anything rod would have worked.what the heck ... i'll post it up here.Here's what broke:It's the bottom hinge on our stock trailer.  the door is heavy as crap and my Father and law and I didn't think we'd be able to man-handle it by ourselves.  So taking it off to weld it flat really wasn't an option.so as you can see, uphill is not my strong suit.try not to barf.it's back together.the hardest part was welding the 1/8" angle to the square tube that broke.  the fit up wasn't perfect, and the original metal was thin and burned through really easily.  after making a hole or two, i reduced the amperage a bit, but it still burned through really easily.in hindsight, i think i was trying to make the weld too big.  toward the end i started to get into a rhythm and making tighter movements where i was able to tie everythign in and not burn through.  if i cared a little more, i'd grind on it and put a downhill cover-up pass on it.  but i'm done with it.not pretty. but back to functional.  even if it does break again, there's no safety hazard.  the door can't go anywhere when it is shut, so if it breaks again it will just do what it did last time, which is swing free on the bottom making it hard to handle and get shut.eeeh ...
Reply:Holy cow!!
Reply:Originally Posted by MagicHatHoly cow!!
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopSarcasm or compliment??It's fixed.Good job!!
Reply:Try down hill with 6011 and 6013.Stay away from 6010.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Meborderthey're ugly, but not out of character ... you should see the rest of the trailer
Reply:Things to keep in mind when doing vertical up... Heat is your friend. Many people have issues because they try and weld too cold. I run almost the same amps vertical as I do flat. Maybe down 5 or 10 amps at most using 1/8" rods depending on how I'm doing that particular day. In many cases if you need less amps, you are better off dropping down in rod size vs turning down the amps. For example you'd be better off using 3/32" rods near the top of the recommended settings, vs say turning down 1/8" 7018 rods to say 100 amps. Keep your arc tight. When you long arc your rods you easily can loose control of what is happening. Keep that rod jammed in tight. Rod angle is also important. Too much rod angle and it acts like you are long arcing it. By keeping the rod in tight, I can control the higher amps.Most importantly you need to be able to read the puddle. If you can't do this, you won't have much luck vertical. A lot of guys get by flat and horizontal doing "timing" patterns. That doesn't work doing vertical. Once you can read the puddle, you can react to what you see happening and out of position welds are "easy".It's really hard to see any good detail on those welds the way the paint is.  I can easily tell however that you haven't yet learned to read the puddle. You need to work on ignoring the arc and paying close attention to what is slag, and what is molten metal.  Once you can determine that you are on your way. Now you can watch what the molten metal is doing and ignore most everything else. Your consistency is horrible. No huge surprise since you can't read the puddle and most likely are trying to either run timing patterns, or trying to react to the dripping slag. With vertical fillets, you want to go side to side slightly, pausing on each side long enough for the arc to catch up to the puddle. Then you reverse and cross the center fast and pause at the other side. Keep in mind you cross the center twice for each vertical segment. That means you need to travel across the center twice as fast as you pause on the sides. This is easy to do if you learn to read the puddle and react to it vs trying to do this based on time. Keep your motions fast and tight, it makes it easier to deposit less material and avoid gravity trying to pull down a huge puddle. When welding thin to thick, keep most of your arc aimed at the thicker piece and just wash the puddle over to the thinner piece. This can be tough if the material isn't set up the way you prefer to weld. I've noticed most students tend to favor one side vs the other when doing lap joints and even T's to a limited degree. Right hand students tend to want the top piece on the right side, so they stand to the left and point at the joint. Many times guys have issues when they flip a practice piece over and now the top piece is on the left. They don't realize that the joint has "changed" and don't reposition themselves. Then they can't understand why 1/2 their welds turn out decent, then the next one looks like crap... Your door would require lap welds both on the left and the right, and you can easily have this issue if you don't pay attention to is and are not aware of what is going on. I use a large exaggerated weave to help teach this to students. I do this so they can try to concentrate on what is going on at the end of each side to side motion so they can really SEE the arc catch up to the puddle as I pause on each side. Then I do the exact same thing smaller and faster and see if they can still see what is going on at the ends as I pause. Then I go even faster until I'm going at my normal pace. At that point my side to side motion is just a small wiggle, maybe 1/8"- 3/16" wide at most and I'm moving up maybe 1/16" or less each time. To someone who doesn't know what to look for, it looks like my hand shakes as I weld, but the motions are deliberate and very controlled..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the pointers, DSW - you've always been kind and helpful.belive it or not, reading the puddle isn't my real weakness, but rather the total lack of experience in vertical welds.  when i said that vertical wasn't my strong suit, what i should have said was "i've never welded uphill before" .. which is the truth.the lack of consistency is not really from a lack of reading the puddle, but rather the hand not knowing what to do.  All the goobery welds was the hand doing stuff that wasn't working, and the many starts and stops are from not continuing to do the same thing expecting different results.Looking at the angle-door welds, the last two weld "strings" i did was in Pic #1 at the top, where i left a crater. followed by Pic #2 at the very bottom.   So all of the stuff i was trying that didn't work, led me to the very last two beads which weren't a total mess.  All the goobery mess in the middle was from trying to make the bead too wide and blowing through the thinner metal in the door.  I wasn't going to leave big holes, so i filled it in as i went and it just looks like hell.I think i could have done this much prettier going downhill, but that seems to get more criticisim on this forum than just about anything, and everytime it is said that the welder should have gone uphill -- so i figgured that uphill was worth a try, even though i've never done it before.I think when time permits, i'm going to grind it down and do a downhill pass over the top.  That should help "fix" anything that wasn't tied in and will look better in the end.  As it was, i was short on time and help. i had yesterday to get it working and the perfectionist within is not real happy with the end result - but it is working and it isn't going to fall off (at least i don't think it will, or i would have kept working on it.)funny, though ... as bad as it looks, my wife said it was "beatutiful" because now she can open and close the door -- and functionally the door hasn't operated this easily in a number of years.  it has been 1/2 broke for about 5 years, and finally broke completly last thursday.thanks again for the pointers.  wish i had more time to practice, rather than playing catchup and having to learn something new under the gun.
Reply:Vertical down is sort of a special tool used for specific instances. If you need to weld thin sheet, then vertical down may be useful. However many newer welders use it only because they can make prettier welds that way. Problem is why it's good for thin sheet, you get very limited penetration. Also not all rods are good choices for vert down. Rods with heavy slag tend to have the slag drip down in front of the bead, and you get buried slag and slag inclusions welding vert down as well as poor penetration. Added together that makes it a poor choice when strength is of major importance. I've found most people if they can weld well vert up, don't have too much of an issue vert down given a small amount of practice. However that isn't the case in reverse..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopSarcasm or compliment??It's fixed.Good job!!
Reply:Just my 2 cents. And I dont want to start a war, but I had an old Linde buzzbox and it seemed the best rod for it was good old white Murex 6011C. Thats a job I would do downhill around 125 amps with mine. Nowadays my toy list is much longer, but that would be my choice with the old Lo ocv buzzers.