Need some help - utility trailer folding gate.

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Hello,I'm coming to the end of a trailer rebuild & need to start on the gate.  I'd like to do a folding gate to give me the ability to use it as a deck extension on occasion when hauling my 4-wheeler with the snowplow attached, then fold out as a ramp most of the time. The trailer is 8x5.5.  Odd size, I know.  The trailer was my dad's & was left to me when he passed away.  I widened it only as much as I needed to accommodate my mower & four wheeler which is how I ended up at this odd-ball size.  In my area, trailers over 8 feet are required to scale out at the dump & it costs significantly more to get rid of the trash.  But I need a few more inches on occasion that aren't permanent, so a folding gate seemed to be the best idea.I need some recommendations on hinge type, material size, & basic design of a folding gate.  It's really hard to see any detail in these internet pics I've been looking at.  I have the basic idea down but any help would be appreciated.  Mower is probably 600-700lbs & the 4 wheeler is around the same, maybe closer to 800lbs.  I can't ever see anything heavier driving up the gate but I like to over build everything just in case. I was thinking 2 2' sections to make a 4' gate.  How do I keep the gate from collapsing it the middle?  I mean I understand the hinge placement has something to do with it but this is where I'm a bit confused.  I want it to be simple yet strong enough to handle the mentioned weight.  Any suggestions would be great.  I don't have any pictures to show as I usually forget to take them when I get immersed, but I'll shoot some tomorrow.  Below is an example of what I'm looking to do.  Thanks for looking, Scott Attached Images
Reply:I'd do one solid full width gate rather than split it. That eliminates the issue about how to tie the two sections together so you can support weight. If I absolutely HAD to do a split gate, I'd do a couple locking cross bolts and make them stout, maybe 1", or better yet set it up so I could run a 1/2 dozen grade 8 blots thru 2 pieces of heavy angle iron to tie the units together.Hinges, I'd just buy the weld on hinges from Northern and be done with it myself rather than F with building my own from pipe and rod.My biggest concern is how you hold the whole thing up with the sort of weight you are talking about. I'm guessing with an ATV you'll end up with most of the weight at the very end of the ramp with it down. I'd skip chains because of the bounce factor and go with solid bars to hold up the gate in the "level" position. A simple piece of 2" x 1/4" flat bar with a hole on each end would end up being the strongest solution vs chains, and I'd simply bolt the bar on with a hefty set of grade 8 bolts.Note a 2' "ramp" to the ground will be VERY steep. The 4' ramps on our little trailer are very short for loading stuff. If by "mower" you are talking a zero turn, you won't get it up that steep of a ramp is my guess.If you do this you'd better make sure your welds are decent. 800 lbs bouncing on the end of that ramp will beat the crap out of it pretty quick if your welds are not solid. Think about what will happen when the gate drops at highway speed because you hit a pothole or the road is buckled a bit in the summer. You built it, so your azz is the one who will be left hanging. I would not suggest doing this with anything less than a 230v machine.Last edited by DSW; 03-05-2012 at 06:54 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The weight I mentioned would only be driving up the ramp, not sitting on it in the folded position.  Sorry if that wasn't clear.  The most I anticipate sitting static on the ramp might be 50lbs.  I plan to use flat stock fir the supports as well.  No chain due to the bounce you mentioned.  Yes, the mower is a zero turn.  I'll have to look into a 5 or 6 ft length then.  Both my machines are 230v.  I really would prefer to do the folding gate although the straight gate would be much easier. I need the extra space on occasion.  Thanks for the reply.Scott
Reply:My grandfather bought a cheap trailer from a local store that had a fold down ramp/gate. Using the trailer for leaves we soon found out the gate with expanded metal sucks for trying to get leaves off the trailer. What I did was made up 3 hinges out of 3/4" tubing and then made two pins that fit nicely inside of the 3/4" tube hinges. I put two of the hinges on the bottom of the gate and trailer so the gate folded down tot he ground like before for loading 4 wheelers and whatnot. But I also added the one extra hinge on the side of the gate and side of the trailer so the pins in the lower hinges can be pulled out and one placed in the side hinge so the gate can swing open to the side for when unloading leaves and whatnot. Works like a charm!
Reply:I don't reall do to much yard brush & the like as I live in an area backed up to woods, so I just blow it all back where it came from!  But thanks for the tip. I went to the welding shop I use for the major repairs to my car carriers & picked his brain a little as well.  As you suggested DSW, & I sorta knew too, 4' is too short.  Gonna extend it to 6'.  I am still going to stick with the folded gate though.  I don't have a Northern nearby & have access to free schedule 80 pipe & solid rod so I'm going to make my hinges.  I'll shoot some pictures of where I am so far in my project later today & post them.  If anyone has some close up pics of a folded gate, I'd really appreciate if they could post them here.  Thanks.Scott
Reply:Here is one I did for a friend of mine. As far as I know he likes it as I haven't heard otherwise. Attached ImagesTrailblazer 302Hobart Stickmate AC/DCLincoln SP 135 TSmith torchSpoolmatic 30A
Reply:Thanks shortarc.  That very similar to what I have in mind.
Reply:Got a little more work done on my trailer project today.  Made some light boxes for the tail lights & rear side marker.  Still waiting on the last piece of expanded metal for the front & material for my gate.  Maybe tomorrow.....Thanks for looking, Here's some pictures: Attached Images
Reply:some more: Attached Images
Reply:any other folded gate builders with pictures??
Reply:Well, I came up with a design I like , although its heavy as hell.  Two 3 foot sections, each will be removeable or be able to remove the whole thing.  I'll get some pictures of the welds this weekend.  Been crazy with work.  Here's what I've got. Attached Images
Reply:more pictures of the gate & hinge welds.  The pipe is schedule 80 with 5/8 solid cold rolled rod.  I did what I guess is considered a root pass on the trailer mounted hinges then went over them all again top & bottom.  I have discovered that I can't weld for crap overhead.  Never had to do it before so I didn't realize how difficult it can be.  I had to flip the trailer over anyway to prep for paint & wiring so I burned the bottom weld at that time.  Looks way better now! Attached ImagesLast edited by apextrans; 03-16-2012 at 11:53 AM.
Reply:A couple more.  The hinges that mount the gate to the trailer itself just slide off.  I was thinking the middle hinges would be permanent but the whole gate together it really heavy so I will either put removable pins in them or cut them off & do sliding hinges like the bottom.  Any opinions on that?  I will add sections of pipe to the sides of the gate to hold it in the open position as not to rely only on the hinges as I drive the mower over it.  Haven't figured out a plan for locking it in the upright position or folded position to use as a deck extender yet.  Wish I was able to do aluminum but it's a little too late for that.   Anyway, more when time permits.  Thanks for looking.Scott Attached Images
Reply:Apex, overhead welding is no more difficult than flat, just upside down! Ha Ha. I'm kidding, but that is the trick to it. Instead of gravity, you rely on arc force, and surface tension of the molten puddle, but it is actually almost the same as regular flat welding. I get set up so that I look at the weld from the side to eliminate burns from any slag or sparks dropping on me, and just run like I would flat. Any deficiencies in technique will be amplified, so your skill will improve as you learn.Trailer looks decent.
Reply:Thanks.  I need to practice overhead when this project is done.  Looked like dripping wet paint.  too hot & too much IPM I guess.  I like the videos on welding tips & tricks .com & watched a few about overhead last nite.  Need to play with my settings & run beads to get better.  It's really not pretty.  I'm still a great deal newbie so how do I adjust the arc force & surface tension?  Arc force =heat?  One thing I know I did wrong is keep the stickout WAY too long.  But I was wearing more wire than was sticking so I was trying to stay clear!.  Ended up grinding it all out & re-did them when I flipped the trailer over.  Definitely the harder way to go....
Reply:A bit late to the party, but here's how I did mine a while ago. The ramps are about 6 feet long. Did someone mention overbuild? The side rails are 1" x 2" 1/8" wall RHS and the rungs are 2" x 2" x 1/4" angle. It's a 10 x 6 foot deck and I use the ramps to load an older Hustler 4000 series Zero Turn Mower. It has three pairs of wheels., all at different widths, hence the width required on the ramps. These are only fitted when needed to load something with wheels."One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as much government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering)Mitch 180 (NZ)Lincoln SAM-400-220 + ?-400 Fordson Major + 2 x Tractapac Humber 80 + Procut 40 PlasmaMiller Spectrum 375
Reply:By arc force and surface tension, I am referring to characteristics of the molten puddle. Some wire feed machines do have an arc force control, with "soft" and "stiff" settings. I do alot more stick welding than wire feed, so I'm gonna hesitate to give you specific advice, but generally speaking, I have found that keeping a consistent, proper stickout for the wire you are running, and keeping the arc at the leading edge of the puddle has produced good results for me. What you don't want to do is to back off the voltage and current to compensate for lack of technique... you may need to move faster than you are comfortable with. Hopefully someone with better specifics will chime in.On overhead, there is a point where you over-fill the puddle and it falls. You get away with this on flat, it just leaves a bump. Watch the puddle carefully.
Reply:Tractapac, I like your setup as well. That's one serious tube on the bottom! Daddy, based on what you said, im moving way to slow also....I was staying more in the puddle thinking it would give better penetration with the lack of gravity helping.  Practice...
Reply:My $0.02for the middle hinges, make them in reverse of the gate to trailer hinges. with the same style hinge. (K.I.S.S) Idealy I'd make it  with a different number of hinges on either side. that way it's obvious which way the gate goes.Add some bent rod handles to the sides of both sections. this will help with both lowering and removing of the pannels.Add some Angle iron to the Top (opposite the hinges) of one section  (would recommend the section not attached directly to the trailer) so that it sticks out past the hinged section 3"-5" or so. This will act as your upper stop and the hinges will act as the other stop. keeping the sections from hyper extending. Don't use pipe in pipe. If it does get overloaded and bends in the gate you're stuck with the gate fully extended.I agree with using bar instead of chain for holding it in the "half cocked" position. I have some questions. though.1) If you need the added length for carrying specific items, how are you going to Load those items and then put the gate in the "half cocked" position? 2) In this configuration, Are you going to be able to remove the section of gate while it's down? or will it need to be extended then removed? or both? My advice on this is make sure that it can be removed in both positions. Here is why. A - you will be able to load the larger items. get the gate into the "half cocked" position, remove the lower section and place it beside/below the item. B - This elimiates the need to build something to secure the lower section during the "half cocked" position. C - It also makes it easier to deal with if it's in the up position and you want to take the gate off.Last edited by ThorsHammer; 03-19-2012 at 07:09 PM.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerMy $0.02for the middle hinges, make them in reverse of the gate to trailer hinges. with the same style hinge. (K.I.S.S) Idealy I'd make it  with a different number of hinges on either side. that way it's obvious which way the gate goes.Add some bent rod handles to the sides of both sections. this will help with both lowering and removing of the pannels.Add some Angle iron to the Top (opposite the hinges) of one section  (would recommend the section not attached directly to the trailer) so that it sticks out past the hinged section 3"-5" or so. This will act as your upper stop and the hinges will act as the other stop. keeping the sections from hyper extending. Don't use pipe in pipe. If it does get overloaded and bends in the gate you're stuck with the gate fully extended.I agree with using bar instead of chain for holding it in the "half cocked" position. I have some questions. though.1) If you need the added length for carrying specific items, how are you going to Load those items and then put the gate in the "half cocked" position? 2) In this configuration, Are you going to be able to remove the section of gate while it's down? or will it need to be extended then removed? or both? My advice on this is make sure that it can be removed in both positions. Here is why. A - you will be able to load the larger items. get the gate into the "half cocked" position, remove the lower section and place it beside/below the item. B - This eliminates the need to build something to secure the lower section during the "half cocked" position. C - It also makes it easier to deal with if it's in the up position and you want to take the gate off.
Reply:In theory. You'd have to stretch or colapse the metal around the hinges to get them to over extend/bend any extra metal. Personal opinion. The hinges themselves will be fine for the loads intended. and adding extra isn't needed. I'm not seeing how the folding section is removable if the hinges in post #13 are them. I'd definately want them removeable myself. but to each their own I guess.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:In post 13, the pins are cut to size & inserted in those hinges but not welded in yet.  I would need to make new pins with a bend in them so I could pull them when needed.   That's why I was thinking of redoing them.  Might be more trouble than its worth though.
Reply:It's been a while since I worked on the trailer gate but heres what I came up with.  Had to shorten to 4'.  It's way over built & still quite heavy even at 4'.  middle hinges is now solid but gate is removable.  It works nicely.  I did add the locks to the trailer & some handles but haven't got pics of that yet.  Still need to figure a way to keep it closed in the "extender" position & make the bars that will hold it up.  More later.  Thanks for looking. Attached Images
Reply:Finished up the gate today.  Just need to paint it up & I'm done.  Here's a couple more pictures.  1 as the extended deck & the second is a picture of the locks I made to hold the lower half up when it's in the "extended"position or upright for driving.  Used 2 9/16x 3 1/2' bolts & drilled thru the front half & welded 9/16' nuts to the face of the upper half to lock them together.  Added some cold rolled rod for handles on the locking bolts so I don't tear up the knuckles on the expanded metal.  A little tedious to unlock but I don't want this thing dropping open going down the road.  Bent the lift handles out of 1" flat stock.   I'm pretty happy with it.  Opinions?  I was figuring this out as I went.... Attached Images
Reply:personally probably would have just done a pin and clip set up for the lock down, but yours is even more secure. As for the handles, if they work and they don't kill your hands to use them, thats all that matters. most people probably would have used round stock. For the bars that hold the gate in the half cocked possition, how are they attached to the trailer walls? are there pins that stick out? Not sure if thats how I'd go about it. Knowing me I'd shin myself every time I got out of the trailer.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM StingerThe gate is so darn heavy, I wanted something substantial to lock it in place so I continued the overkill theme.  I got hardened hands from work so the handles are ok with me.  Only round stock I had wouldn't bend real well so I used what I had lying around.  The bars connect to one half inch pins I welded to the inside walls.  They don't stick out any farther then the d-rings so it shouldn't be a problem.
Reply:Just a few pics of the end product.  Works well & is way heavier than I could ever break so it should last a good long time.  Thanks for the input everyone.Scott Attached Images
Reply:I like how it turned out... kinda looks factory made with the reflective tape. You should be very happy with the solution you came up with to get that extra 2'. I don't see that breaking any time soon. Nice Work!Do you have any idea of the total weight of the 2 sections?
Reply:I like how it turned out... kinda looks factory made with the reflective tape. You should be very happy with the solution you came up with to get that extra 2'. I don't see that breaking any time soon. Nice Work!Do you have any idea of the total weight of the 2 sections?