Gotta Give A Price Quote By Tuesday! Stumped

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Guys I have to give a price quote by Tuesday afternoon. A welding company, fairley local got my number through an amployee and wants me for a job, and needs me to stop in tuesday to look at a few sample pieces that were sent and give him a price quote. So far this is all he told me. The job is gonna be Sch40 stainless pipe 3in O.D., Beveled, land is still a question, the samples are not exact, but close, and gap is still a question. He told me it is low pressure pipe 14lbs. I will be working in his shop after hours using all his equipment and tools, filler rod etc. All the pipe will be tacked together, and i'm there to run em around. He will supply one worker to stay with me as a helper. This is a structural company, who does'nt employee any tig guys, that's why he reached out to me. Nothing will be x-rayed, but I will have to take a practical, and get some sort of pipe cert out of it. From what I get out of him it seems like its gonna be a burn the midnight oil deal for a while for me, plus my regular job has me up at 4:30 ev morning, ugh! All I could tell you is he said it's gonna be alot of welding for a while. So I know I don't have all the particulars, but just wondering where I should start my price, I'm thinking at least 3 passes per joint, and also figuring pricing this one out as per joint on a nightly basis. I weld for a living, but this job is tricky for me to price out, so I figured I would ask here and see what the pipe pros think.  Also he knows it has to be backpurged and all that, and we are gonna tie up all the loose ends Tuesday. Any help, would definatley help guys, thanksI hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Charge him your overtime rate at least. Should be in the mid to upper twenties at least. He came looking for you.I have a schedule similar to yours and I would not want a late evening job after my regular job ends each day.Miller Pro 30068 SA 20064 SAF 300305 G Lincoln gasserMiller 210
Reply:I think I would have to quote it as a hourly rate not a piece price. You will be at his mercy on the set-up, and I would guess you will get different helpers every night.
Reply:I agree by the hour.    Its from my experience that most structural shops don't no a damn thing about proper pipe fit ups.  Let alone proper handling and purging of stainless.Id go with an hourly rate paid in cash!Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by leightrepairsI think I would have to quote it as a hourly rate not a piece price. You will be at his mercy on the set-up, and I would guess you will get different helpers every night.
Reply:Quote hourly since MANY factors are outside your contol! A flat fee has huge potential to go wrong even if the employer is a good guy.
Reply:Don't low ball it !!!! You can  always lower your price, but you hardly ever get to go back for more.  If you don't have control of the helper and fit-up maybe by the hour would be fair. Remember that he will give you a 1099 at the end of the year , which you will have to pay all the tax on.Welderbob
Reply:I also agree with hourly.  Also dont low ball it.  He might be expecting those prices all the time.Job i start tommorrow wanted me to put a peice price in.  Would not do it i told them except for an hourly rate.  Too many factors out of my control.Pack up, transport and re-assemble scaffold.Need to stop work 2 minutes befor a train arrival at the platform and untill departed.These are the main ones.  Many others.
Reply:Maybe the pipe work is part of a larger job that they are doing structural work on. I wouldn't low ball it, no one will gain respect for you or your work if you are giving it away. Don't know the going rates in your area, but you will be a cheap employee to the company since you will get no benefits. If your rate is too low there will be little reason for the parts to be prepped or set up the way you like. You have to consider the stress that this extra work will bring to your life also. What kind of deadlines?
Reply:$50.00 a joint (3 passes), I bring my own helper.Or $45.00/hr & I use his monkeys..Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:Originally Posted by Mick120Ditto on the hourly Mike.Find out the ruling rate for your area and go a bit lower, afterall, he is supplying.That way, you don't get burned.
Reply:Mick would 50 bucks an hour sound good?I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:seems to me if you make $47/hr at your regular job, then by the time you pay your own taxes, you will need at least $65/hr to get the same pay. any value you place on your time above for late nights would go above that.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:You guys are right! Thanks buds!  Forgot to factor in my beer time as well! that will also drive up the price! Thanks guysI hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Don't forget to ask other questions in the conversation on Tuesday if at all possible. There are other posts on here about guys taking jobs for <10% of the other bids because they didn't ask or didn't know other bids came in. You might not get a second phone call if you're in a pillaging mood  but you're bringing your skills and experience to them so it'd be good to feel out how much they think that's worth. Ask if they've had other bids, deadlines, how large a project are they planning, whether they're flexible on schedule - all good questions if they're open to discussion.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanTDon't forget to ask other questions in the conversation on Tuesday if at all possible. There are other posts on here about guys taking jobs for <10% of the other bids because they didn't ask or didn't know other bids came in. You might not get a second phone call if you're in a pillaging mood  but you're bringing your skills and experience to them so it'd be good to feel out how much they think that's worth. Ask if they've had other bids, deadlines, how large a project are they planning, whether they're flexible on schedule - all good questions if they're open to discussion.
Reply:I would not want a late evening job after my regular job ends each day.
Reply:A 2" single pass joint on pipe (handrails) is roughly $15, so a 3 pass joint would be roughly $45, add in a little extra for the tig and extra time to set up purging and I think $50 a joint would be about right.
Reply:Depending on how many units you have to produce, you could do the first few on a hourly rate then offer a fixed price for the rest. that way you cover your initial risk (which he has the best chance of controlling) and you do him a favor by cutting his overall/longer term risk (which you will be in a better position to control). I always work on the principle that the person who is best placed to control the risk, should be the one who takes the risk (and get the financial benefits of doing so).Cheers - Mick
Reply:One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet. If you need to get a cert, who's paying, and who holds the cert? If you have to pay, make sure that you toss this in the bill as well. If it was me, I'd want to pay and hold the cert, and then charge them what it cost me to get the cert. I know from when I was looking to get certs to work for one guy, some of them are not cheap. It was close to $500 / cert to get all the xray, charpy  and other tests done on each position. That can add up fast if you need to get a couple positions done.Also as mentioned, don't forget that if you get 1099'd, you're the one stuck paying taxes, social sec. etc on that money. You might make $47/hr at work, but a guarantee that's not what it costs the company for every hour you work. Social security, workers comp, unempolyment etc tacks on quite a bit more to your actual cost to the employer. It would not surprise me at all if what your employer pays isn't $65-75/ hr when you add in all the rest. Also think about insurance... I ran into an issue a few years back on one job. I came in to help a friend finish up a job they had the finish carpenter quit on. I was making my regular rate so no big deal, until one of the other subs got hurt on the job and the GC's insurance company wanted to see workmans comp and liability insurance for all the subs. Luckily my buddy simply made me an employee of his company, and covered me with his policies or I'd have been making no money at all by the time I  paid for even minimal coverage. Today almost everywhere I go they want to see proof I've got at least workers comp if I'm going to be hired as a sub. That helps cover their azz if I get hurt for some reason.Note these things don't apply if they have you on the books as an employee as opposed to a sub..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I would say around $40 to $50 an hour if you were usuing your own engine drive fuel filler and helper I would say more. For coming in his shop working with his filler ,machine, power, and helper start at $50 and I would end at $40.Vantage 300 kubota ,miller 304 xmt ,lincoln ln 25 pro , ranger 305 G, plenty of other tools of the trade to make the sparks fly.
Reply:Originally Posted by GmmandanI would say around $40 to $50 an hour if you were usuing your own engine drive fuel filler and helper I would say more. For coming in his shop working with his filler ,machine, power, and helper start at $50 and I would end at $40.
Reply:If you are "that good". Then u charge for it...  u can explain to him your reg job rate and reg overtime rate and u gotta pay tax on what he pays you.   So he decides to use some other cheap guy,   then work is substandard then u charge him even more to fix what the cheap guy screwed up.    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Tell him you want to be paid hourly.  Like others have stated, then you're not gonna get screwed by having to wait on others to do their part before you can do yours.  Unless you really love to work and weld, don't even think about going lower than your hourly for your regular job.  Initially, you wrote something about wanting to charge him your regular overtime pay.  No harm telling him you want that.  If they don't accept, they don't accept.  They know you're good, so they should pay for it.  If I were making $47/hr, I don't think I'd be looking for more work after my normal job, unless it was to help out a buddy.-AaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:I agree, charge hourly.   Just a couple of comments/question.Are they going to pay you W-2 or 1099?If 1099, you have a lot more work to do on the taxes side of things.  Presumably you'd have to pay any and all insurance etc. as well.I think someone mention high 20s/hr   For long term work, maybe, for something that is going to be really short term (like a week) I would think the rate would be much higher.  Of course, around here, the muffler shop's hourly rate is $95/hr.Consider this.   Tell 'em $45/hr  If that won't fly, negotiate, as long as its short term.  It it works, and the owner likes your work, next time tell 'em $65/hr but let him talk you down to $55.Most business, reliable/predictable is extremely valuable.  When that owner goes and bids on a contract, if he knows exactly what it will cost him to fill the contract, he will be able to put in less 'wiggle' room and put in a more competitive bid.  He may grumble about paying your X dollars/hr, but if he knows for sure you will be done and have it done right for a predictable amount of money and time, he will be happy (unless he's an idiot - you will always run into the dope that thinks they can save a buck here and there - penny wise, pound foolish - you don't want to work for them anyway).Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DXOriginally Posted by GmmandanI would say around $40 to $50 an hour if you were usuing your own engine drive fuel filler and helper I would say more. For coming in his shop working with his filler ,machine, power, and helper start at $50 and I would end at $40.
Reply:Mike,How did it turn out?You can't spend all your time in the back of a van.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanTMike,How did it turn out?You can't spend all your time in the back of a van.
Reply:Sorry to hear it didn't work out, it's always nice to visualize that little pot o' gold at the end and how you're gonna spend it I know what you're saying about the negotiations though, I bid alot of sidework (concrete wise), and more often than not, that's how the negotiations end up......but, like they say, keep throwing the "stuffing" against the wall and sooner or later something will stick.Keep at it.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....