HELP*** Pinholes in my tig weld.....

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Well I just acquired a Miller Diversion 180. I set it up to weld and it looked like $%!+. I figured maybe the steal was dirty so I cleaned that up more and used three different pieces. Angle/ flat and tubing. Still nothing. Then it looked like my cup my have been contaminated with crap  and was not allowing sufficient gas to flow. Bought some glass lenses and a new nozzle #8. had #7 before. Still same $%!+. It seemed to clean up a bit when I welded in an almost 90 degree (Torch straight down) but still had some pinholes. I'm also getting small stretches where the weld looks fine as you can see from the photo's so that makes me think the gas is ok. Any thoughts??*** I even checked the hose to see if I was leaking somewhere*** Sprayed the hose and fittings from the tank Checking OK. Hose from the welder to the torch checking ok as well.. No pinholes. no bubbles..
Reply:Are you using 100% Argon?Is the bottle from a reputable supplier and of recent vintage?Has the supplier had any complaints of bad welding gas recently?Is the flow rate set right?Is your torch assembled right?How far are you hanging the tungsten out?How are you cleaning your metal specifically, mostly are you using any chemicals as the metal looks sanded?What size cup are you using, what torch and can you post a picture?What is your arc length?Do you have a fan in your shop anywhere, or a window AC unit?Is your filler rod covered in dirt or some other contaminant?What does your tungsten look like after one pass (only if you didn't dip)?Those are all the questions I could think of related to the problem you are having...
Reply:Also take your torch apart and lay out all the parts in the exact order you took them apart and take a pic... you can assemble the torch wrong and the gas will go out the top of the torch.
Reply:my guess would be the gas
Reply:Are you using 100% Argon? I hope so. That's what I paid for.Is the bottle from a reputable supplier and of recent vintage? Yes, have purchased from them before. No prob's.Has the supplier had any complaints of bad welding gas recently? No. Not that I know of.Is the flow rate set right? Have played with it (15-25cfh) shot it up to 30 still crap.Is your torch assembled right? Yes. I tore it apart to check for leaks. Nothing! Switched to Gas Lense, same prob's.How far are you hanging the tungsten out? Maybe 1/8th. Played with that to. Went in more than out also. Same prob's.How are you cleaning your metal specifically, mostly are you using any chemicals as the metal looks sanded? I used Alcohol. Going to buy acetone tomorrow and lint free rags. Will see how that works.What size cup are you using, what torch and can you post a picture? Its a 17. cup size used was #7 and #8. Then #8 with gas lense. Same!What is your arc length? As close to the puddle without touching.Do you have a fan in your shop anywhere, or a window AC unit? No/ fans off and shop doors closed.Is your filler rod covered in dirt or some other contaminant? Tried two. One i had and one I got w/ the welder.What does your tungsten look like after one pass (only if you didn't dip)? Has a blue shade to it about a1/2 " from the tip. Cannot adjust postflow with the 180 diversion.
Reply:Originally Posted by gto_welder01my guess would be the gas
Reply:Originally Posted by kustomizingkidAlso take your torch apart and lay out all the parts in the exact order you took them apart and take a pic... you can assemble the torch wrong and the gas will go out the top of the torch.
Reply:That has nothing to do with cleaning..Gas delivery problem..All this "Bad Gas" syndrome.. is just a myth..Never happened to me in over 25 years.With the machine running press the pedal like you are welding away and just listen to the gas flow out of the torch for about 30 seconds..Does the sound change at all in the process?I realize it's a air cooled torch but submerging the outer shield will reveal nothing at all..If it's leaking inside......zap!Last edited by zapster; 06-19-2012 at 08:34 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThat has nothing to do with cleaning..Gas delivery problem..All this "Bad Gas" syndrome.. is just a myth..Never happened to me in over 25 years.With the machine running press the pedal like you are welding away and just listen to the gas flow out of the torch for about 30 seconds..Does the sound change at all in the process?I realize it's a air cooled torch but submerging the outer shield will reveal nothing at all..If it's leaking inside......zap!
Reply:Is the filler wire DEFINATELY proper TIG wire like ER70s-2 or could it be oxyfuel wire which will cause porosity like you have. If you had been sold an argon mix or had "contaminated gas"/a gas leak the tungsten would oxidise immediately (a dull burnt grey colour), the weld would be surrounded by/covered with brown soot and you'd have spitting and arc wander
Reply:Ok so you all think it is not getting sufficient flow to the weld? It sounds like it does but I will have to confirm tomorrow. I'll post more pics of the entire process I'll be going through.
Reply:No, we're saying you are getting gas contamination somewhere along the line. And with all due respect to Zap, I have personally gotten a bad bottle of gas. I do agree that it should be considered the LEAST likely cause, especially if you are dealing with a new setup. Unfortunately, I got a bad bottle, and ended up checking EVERYTHING to no avail. I even routed the gas around the welder and directly from the regulator to the torch so it was flowing constantly. As soon as I told my LWS I was having gas contamination issues he said "Oh, yeah, we got a bad fill lot from our supplier. Pull around and we'll swap your bottle. Sorry." Actually, when you are welding in DC with contaminated gas (this could be coming from a leak or the bottle), at least was in my case, the tungsten will have a weird formation on the tip. Best way to describe it is it looks kind of like a witch hat. Another thing to try is to just run a bead with no filler, that eliminates some variables right off the bat.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZmechanicNo, we're saying you are getting gas contamination somewhere along the line. And with all due respect to Zap, I have personally gotten a bad bottle of gas. I do agree that it should be considered the LEAST likely cause, especially if you are dealing with a new setup. Unfortunately, I got a bad bottle, and ended up checking EVERYTHING to no avail. I even routed the gas around the welder and directly from the regulator to the torch so it was flowing constantly. As soon as I told my LWS I was having gas contamination issues he said "Oh, yeah, we got a bad fill lot from our supplier. Pull around and we'll swap your bottle. Sorry." Actually, when you are welding in DC with contaminated gas (this could be coming from a leak or the bottle), at least was in my case, the tungsten will have a weird formation on the tip. Best way to describe it is it looks kind of like a witch hat. Another thing to try is to just run a bead with no filler, that eliminates some variables right off the bat.
Reply:I just posted a couple days ago in my own tig thread.  My hose had come unscrewed from the dinse connector that plugs into the machines.  Under the rubber cover u grab to unhook from the welding lead from the machine.  Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2Edit: That's cool didn't know I could upload photos from my phone via Tapatalk. Guess it must store it on their own server Attached ImagesLast edited by soutthpaw; 06-19-2012 at 11:21 PM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderIs the filler wire DEFINATELY proper TIG wire like ER70s-2 or could it be oxyfuel wire which will cause porosity like you have. If you had been sold an argon mix or had "contaminated gas"/a gas leak the tungsten would oxidise immediately (a dull burnt grey colour), the weld would be surrounded by/covered with brown soot and you'd have spitting and arc wander
Reply:I've also gotten a bottle of bad gas before which caused a lot of pinholes.  It was immediately apparent that was the issue since all I did was swap tanks.  I'll also weigh in on the incorrect rod as the problem.- "If ya can't be handsome, ya may as well be handy!"   HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Power Mig 255CLincoln SP125+Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38
Reply:At the risk of showing my welds (knowing there are a lot of pros that do it better) here is an example of TIG welding with RG45 oxyfuel rods vs 70S-2 TIG rods.  The puddle was kinda sluggish and did not flow well with RG45, and I got a hole that I don't get with the correct rod.Note: you can clearly see that I did not clean one of pieces and the mill scale shows up on top of the weld with TIG rods.Just for fun I included a pic of my tig setup - yep it's old   That old Forney welder is nice on aluminum - soft easy to control arc. Attached ImagesDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:The oxy/fuel filler I bought from LWS has a stamp on it, I wanted to see what happened if I tried to use it as filler on a scrap piece, nothing but wormholes and air pockets, guess it doesn't contain all the silicone and other additives that mig wire and tig filler rod contain. Try different filler of ER70S-6 SQUARE WAVE 175 TIG   DUAL MIG 151
Reply:No I have the correct rod.  Ill even post a photo if my computer could hurry up. I'm going to try another bottle of argon this afternoon to illiminate that as a prob.
Reply:Ok so here it the machine that is causing me so many problems. Now here is where the gauge is set at. roughly 25cfh. Give or take some as I would increase and decrease the flow to see if that was the prob.The next few pcs show the gas lenses I purchased as I thought that was an issue. Also the tungsten and how I sharpened it. as well as STICK OUT. I also increased and decreased the stickout.Here is a pic of the torch. Now I did take it apart and check to see if where it connects to the hose was loose. It was tight and looked good.
Reply:Now for the steel. I cleaned and prepped it with a flapper disk then went over that with Acetone along with the filler rod.Here is the torch position I held when welding right to left with my right hand. No glove just to take a pic I swear. LOLAnd now the first weld.
Reply:another thing is that I used a brand new Tungsten Red 2%. It left a blue tint to is about a 1/4 to 1/2" from the tip.Top weld was with filler but no joint. Just flat area.Now for the wierd part. I tried again at the bottom half. No filler. HOLY CRAP Looked goodSo then I tried to weld to pieces again at the joint, no filler. Same crap.
Reply:No filler again::This weld was with filler:This one was without filler rod.
Reply:Your Pulling air into he shielding gas, make sure the back nutIs loose when tightening down the collet body, check to make sure the oring is still on the back nut, make sure the argon hose on torch is tight, also make sure it's tight on regulator. Are you running a flow meter? Or diaphragm gauge?And I agree with zap, I've never had "bad gas" or seen it on the job and we weld a lot of tubes and never seen a fitter have he issue either so, no such thing as bad gas. In my opinionLast edited by astaindsoul5446; 06-20-2012 at 04:05 PM.Miller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:I checked all the fittings. Loosened them, wiped them and then re installed. Aside from taking the machine apart to check where the hose connects to the welder everything has been checked.Sorry. I believe its a diaphragm gauge. Its labeled for mig and tig. Don't wanna spend $100 for a flow meter and that not be the problem.
Reply:Originally Posted by astaindsoul5446Your Pulling air into he shielding gas
Reply:Hang the butt joint out in the open air, off of the table. You may be picking up contamination from the work bench, drawing it up the middle of the joint. I had this same issue last month MIG welding aluminum and this was the problem. Several folks on WW and the Miller forum helped me troubleshoot it.-RGBobcat 22512VSCST-280Millermatic 211Hypertherm Powemax 1000Victor O/A
Reply:Oxygen is getting into the weld somehow.
Reply:rust on table when heated gasses off oxygen, that would do it.
Reply:Originally Posted by nova4353rust on table when heated gasses off oxygen, that would do it.
Reply:I always thought you were supposed to sand off the copper on the filler rods before wiping down with acetone...- "If ya can't be handsome, ya may as well be handy!"   HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Power Mig 255CLincoln SP125+Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI don't think that's his problem - he had the same issue when welding on the surface of a plate.Would a bottle of 75/25 cause this problem?
Reply:Originally Posted by BlackwrenchI thought so too but wouldn't that give me porosity all the way. It seems the weld bead cleans up for a bit then gets dirty again. I'm stumped. Tomorrow I will buy brand new filler rod and acetine. I'm going to use a sand disk for prepping (New of course) and then wipe everything down with acetone including the filler and tungsten. Ill post pics of everything before and after the weld. Have never had so many problems with the Tig being so picky. Last time I used a syncrowave though. Hope it's not my machine.
Reply:Are you using the same piece of metal for all these tests? Any chance it is magnetized?Grinding/prepping the metal with the same grinder that may be magnetized?I have welded engine mounts that had become magnetic, and motor pulleys that were the same.-IanMiller Dynasty 350Miller XMT 304
Reply:Originally Posted by GarauldI always thought you were supposed to sand off the copper on the filler rods before wiping down with acetone...
Reply:I tried TIG with 75/25 to see if it causes the same issue...it did not.  Welded terrible but not the same problem as you are having.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by GarauldI always thought you were supposed to sand off the copper on the filler rods before wiping down with acetone...
Reply:haha^Definitely a gas issue.Try this, Do a leakdown test of the gas hose. Probably wanna turn the machine off for this lol.Suck on the line at the torch to pull a vacuum and let it seal against your tongue and wait, see if you lose vacuum after a short while. Or re-do your water airbubble test but plug the end of the torch with your thumb to build pressure in the line (I don't know if you already tried capping it or not).Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Blackwrench  -  Your cleaning is overkill; I regularly TIG heavyhot-rolled mild-steel sections without any surface prep with superior results, so surface condition is not your problem.  To test flow, hold the torch to your ear.  Do this several times, and for a timed period.  Any flow problem will be evident.In accord with 'zapster', I don't believe in contaminated gas, but I do believe in the wrong gas.  Your welds look like my experiment TIG welding with C-25.  On a weekend I ran out argon and tried the next best bottle, C-25 [25% CO2 - 75% Argon] it didn't work.             I believe your condition results from: gas, flow, or lastly; rodcontamination.I have experienced your problem on more then one occasion.  It was scotch-tape goo on the rods.  It took awhile to discover, andeventually I broke all the LWS to stop taping small bundles of TIG rod.  The first time you see the goo is when your weld blows-up just like yours.Alcohol, acetone, and lacquer-thinner did not remove the goo, theyjust smear it down the rod in different concentrations in the efforts to clean.  The result is an on-going porousity as you feed the dirty rod into the weld.  Tape-goo, [vinyl adhesive, courteous of 3M] requires a specific cleaner.  This you will find, not in a welding or paint store, but at your regional 'sign supply house'.  Ask for Vinyl-Tape remover, and it smells like citrus; it's $50.00 a gallon, and worth it.  I'm five years into my gallon, and still have a 1/4 left because it works, andis rarely needed.  For the gear-heads, this may be the Citrus-Solvent that hasreplaced naphtha in parts washers, it smells and feels the same.Blackwrench - You now know all that I know, please post your discovery. Opus
Reply:just a thought but what are you using to sharpen your tungsten.....do you have a dedicated grinding stone or sharpener??if not you maybe picking up contamination from whatever your using to sharpen and transfering to your work piece.try emry cloth or scotchbrite on your filler rod before using....wouldnt worry so much about the solvent.....  my .02 cents
Reply:This thread is hilarious!!!!!!Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Just a shot in the dark here, I tend to agree its some sort of oxygenation problem, but did anyone notice the size of the filler rod he is using? Unless it's the pics playing tricks it looks to be huge for that size of material, especially on a butt joint or solid plate.  Is it possible that to start the puddle with that size filler it is taking too long and the puddle is being exposed to oxygen or the filler is being contaminated before he dips it? Just a "thunk".... "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:The filler rod in the picture is 3/32. I also used 1/16th and no filler rod.
Reply:Ditch the diaphragm gauge, borrow one from a friend to check if it's the issue.... Diaphragm gauges can get pin holes or cracks in the allowing air into the shielding gas. Did you check the connection on the bottom of the torch handle?Also check argon lines for any cracks or pin holes, it's a shielding issue.Miller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:By the way the "pinholes" are better known as PorosityMiller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:So you guys are saying oxygen, is it possible (just a guess on my part) he is pulling the filler rod too far out of the argon envelope?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleSo you guys are saying oxygen, is it possible (just a guess on my part) he is pulling the filler rod too far out of the argon envelope?
Reply:Gas too dam high pulling oxygen in, cheap steel, poor pre cleaning.
Reply:Originally Posted by usmcruzGas too dam high pulling oxygen in, cheap steel, poor pre cleaning.