Walking the cup questions

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I know it has it's real uses and applications mainly in beveled pipe welding, but I have been trying to learn some of the basics on 3/8" mild steel plate just for practice and learning sake. I have saw a few pictures on forum of people's walking of cup on plate and am interested what went into the multipass welds to get each acceptable pass.    My tries have  been beveled with a 45 degree chamfer mill on my Bridgeport(only angle I have)1/8" and 3/32" gap tries, number 6 cup for first pass and so far I have tried both 3/32" and 1/8" filler.  Amps at 95-110. Tungsten 3/32" red, Argon 15 cfh.Any recommendations on position to practice at? My guess would be a 1G to get a feel for it but am open for suggestions.  My first pass seems to be decent and consistent movements while "walking".I am attempting to leave filler in lead edge of puddle and walk over it. I find it difficult to start at an edge since to walk cup, the cup must be in contact with metal and is already past the edge, meaning tungsten is even further from starting edge.Either way, next.     After my first pass,  have tried both a 6 cup and 7 cup for the fill pass or passes with not much luck. It seems like I can't get any consistent walking motions once I have a pass down and cup does not seem like it advances forward like first pass. So that's where I am at, anything after the root pass I can't seem to walk consistently. I might need to be using a different walking motion for each pass is my guess, but would like suggestions. My practice goal is to be able to do a root, fill pass or passes as required,and finally a cap pass all walking the cup on the plates. If it is something I get the hang of then possibly move on to pipe joints with same idea. Sorry for rant, just wanted to share all info, and thanks ahead of time for help and suggestions.
Reply:Do what you are doing but crank it up!!!!3/8" Plate..1/8"? filler...250 amps maybe??I use 1/16" most of the time..All ya got..Floor it and use your pedal!...zap!Last edited by zapster; 09-16-2012 at 10:11 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Here is a page that may help you. It's on another welding site so if anyone gets mad, I apologize: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...tion-tips.htmlThe first video really helped me do some welding on a chevy 12 bolt for my friend (along with some advise from Zap!). These videos may help you out too.kidtigger24  They think I’m crazy, but I know better. It is not I who am crazy. It is I who am MAD!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterDo what you are doing but crank it up!!!!3/8" Plate..1/8"? filler...250 amps maybe??I use 1/16" most of the time..All ya got..Floor it and use your pedal!...zap!
Reply:Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller Spectrum 250DMiller Millermatic 200Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....
Reply:Hello thanks to all for the help, I have seen the t joint cup walking video and compared to welding a multi pass beveled plate joint I think the fillet weld video is not similiar to what I am shooting for with walking multi passes, but the cup motion I think is helpful, but many other factors that are not the same to what I am trying to practice with. The other video i have not seen and will continue to watch it and try to apply it to a plate scenario and different position since 6g does not seem like the best place to start for meZAP thanks for reply, you even recommend 200 plus amps with the bevel? I was experienceing undercut even at much lower amps on bevel sides on 2nd and 3rd passes. Im game to try anything just wanted to make sure you meant more amps even with bevel to feather edge. thanks all
Reply:Around 200 amps should be your starting point..After that it's all pedal.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I personally would say that 200 amps as a starting point is unnecessary, but definitely doable if you want to fiddle with the pedal When I do it I use a 1/8" filler for my root and go with a slightly under 1/8" gap so my filler cant slide through the joint, no landI like to free hand my root in, I find I can get nicer looking roots compared to walking the cup and I'll just lay my rod in there and pretend like i'm playing the worlds smallest violin wiggling the torch up and down, I set the machine to 90 amps for my rootFor my fill pass I swap to 3/32" rod and like a #6 cup, I also let the plate cool down so when I lay my fill pass in there it doesn't heat the root up too much and suck it back, anywhere from 90-100 amps for my fill passFor my cap I stick with the 3/32" rod and go up to a #8 cup and anywhere between 110-120 amps is sufficient heatAs for getting your movement down it really comes down to practice, the more you do it the better you're going to get at it, its definitely a viable skill to have but don't get too attached that you can only walk the cup, make sure you practice free handing as well.Hope that this helpsLast edited by Badonkadonk; 09-17-2012 at 05:02 PM.
Reply:Thanks zap, badonkadonk, I will give some things a try and see if I have more luck,  I think 200 amps might be doable for someone with much better heat control than me. Badonkadonk, with your cap pass and 8 cup do  top edges of the bevel still remain a tad above fill pass edges? Just curious as what surfaces should be used to rest cup on when walking the cup on cap pass.This is first time ever trying walking the cup with all other welding i have done has been freehand, just wanting to learn a little.only been welding for two years.helpful stuff though guys, thanks
Reply:When I do my fill I go just below flush
Reply:I learned to walk on a flat piece of stock, following a chalk line. First off, walking a root pass on pipe is dangerous territory. It often causes the root to be poorly filled and tied in, a phenomena known as "suck back." Walking is more commonly used on fill & cap, which is why to you should learn to walk a straight line without a ditch (bevel) to ride in. If you learn that way, you will learn to lean on the cup more than is possible to accoplish a beautiful cap.Constant Current Weldor.
Reply:I learned to walk on a flat piece of stock, following a chalk line. First off, walking a root pass on pipe is dangerous territory. It often causes the root to be poorly filled and tied in, a phenomena known as "suck back." Walking is more commonly used on fill & cap, which is why to you should learn to walk a straight line without a ditch (bevel) to ride in. If you learn on a bevel, you will learn to lean on the cup more than is possible to accomplish a beautiful cap', and straight lines will be hard.I think 200 amps is really high, especially considering you are shooting for multiple passes. You will be better able to see how your movements effect puddle flow if it is smaller, and you will not be rushed to maintain speed.  I don't put pedals and cup walking together very often. I see cup walking as a method for ferrous metals that are not very thin.  Practice with no arc, no helmet, I learned more about walking that way than I did wasting gas, rod, ect. Being able to see how your hand moves effects progression, and focusing on cup movement instead of an arc will be so enlightening.On flat stock, you have to free hand the first bit, then start the walk. The transition is tricky.When you are walking a cap, most of the time your cup will be on the peak of the cap, and if you have to much pressure, you will slide off, so you see you must learn to walk a straight line with no guide if pipe is your goal. The outside corner of a piece of angle iron is excellent practice.Last edited by Davidbrown; 09-18-2012 at 09:19 PM.Constant Current Weldor.
Reply:Thanks for the tips DavidBrown, what you said makes sense and I will try and put it to good use. Have not had time to give it any more tries this week but will soon. Thanks