Chop Saw and Angle Cuts

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Am I the only one who has problems getting a good 45 degree angle from a chop saw to fit up will to form 90 ?   Its really starting to piss me off.   The only thing I can think of is the stupid Angle Marker on my Dewalt Chop Saw is not accurate.
Reply:No, you are not the only one who has problems making good 45's with a chop saw.  Usually there is a gap to bridge on one side or the other even if the angle in right.  It can be frustrating.   Use a speed square or other protractor to find the angle, then scribe an accurate mark on your saw table.  Blade deflection can also be a problem. Takes time to learn to work with the inconsistencies of the chop saw, though many people do well with them.  I did it for several years.I now use a horizontal band saw for cutting.
Reply:Not only blade deflection like tap mentions but there's pull, tremendous pull. I used to do a lot of wood working and with unclamped cuts you can actually feel the piece being pulled in as the cut progresses. All it has to do is creep in a few thou on each cut to make a huge difference. Clamping is a big plus. Clamp and clamp some more, then cut slow to minimize the pull.
Reply:Agreed on all parts.  The guide is rather true.  You must use a good square...also...be careful with our square...dont drop them!  IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Chop saw blades can be purchased in varying thicknesses.  The thicker blades deflect less on angle cuts but take longer to make a cut.  The thinner blades can deflect pretty badly, but they cut a great deal faster on straight cuts.It is true that just about everyone has difficulty cutting angles with a chop saw.  It helps to ensure that the part is securely clamped and also to go slow initially.-Heath
Reply:That is one of the reasons I switched to a cold saw for my shop cuts. Got tired of the bad angles and slow cuts. Sure isn't a problem now.  The initial cost can be a bear, but in the long run I believe it is well worth it.
Reply:Unless it's a extremely high quality saw, you will always have to seperately/independently check the angle.  The markings that come from the factory appear to be a guide only.  Not counting any blade flex that will come into effect.  Get it close fill in with weld, grind excess.Here in the Great White NorthMosquitoes can't fly at 40 below
Reply:Originally Posted by SnidleyGet it close fill in with weld, grind excess.
Reply:what are you cutting and what do you have for a "blade" ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:1" angle iron(1/8")  with a 1/8" 14inch blade
Reply:You could eliminate cutting angles by coping angle iron and butting square and capping ends.  I have done coping with my chop saw before.Lotechman shared this several months ago on coping angle.The notch method is the most practical for larger angles than one inch. If you do it correctly when building any rectangular frame all your cross members including your ends are identical in length. Your cross members should be two thicknesses short and your long side rails should also be short two thicknesses. This gives you an open corner joint on the outside for maximum penetration.If you choose to cut 45 degrees at the corners cut your lengths two thickneses short then cut your 45's on the chop saw so that only the flat leg is cut. This again will give you an open corner joint on the outside.The "notch " method is actually a "cope". Coped joints are used for all angles , channels, and wide flanged beams when doing structural.
Reply:You could eliminate cutting angles by coping angle iron and butting square and capping ends.  I have done coping with my chop saw before.Lotechman shared this several months ago on coping angle.The notch method is the most practical for larger angles than one inch. If you do it correctly when building any rectangular frame all your cross members including your ends are identical in length. Your cross members should be two thicknesses short and your long side rails should also be short two thicknesses. This gives you an open corner joint on the outside for maximum penetration.If you choose to cut 45 degrees at the corners cut your lengths two thickneses short then cut your 45's on the chop saw so that only the flat leg is cut. This again will give you an open corner joint on the outside.The "notch " method is actually a "cope". Coped joints are used for all angles , channels, and wide flanged beams when doing structural.
Reply:Tap looks like a double post lmaoIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Oh yeah, gaps are good on heavy stuff ( 1/8" and thicker).  On less than 1/16 inch stuff it can be frustrating.
Reply:RubenZ, great question.  i just experienced this problem last night when i was attempting to make 45's on 2" 1/8 thick angle.  had to go back and re-cut the angles after i did the above mentioned(use a speed square to get the correct angle, mark/scribe it on the base).  don't belive the marks that come on the saw.  I was able to get close to the 45 i needed and then used the grinder then filled the gaps and then the grinder again.  it's frustrating, but sure beats a hack saw!!
Reply:I never cut 45's if I can cope... especially on angle.  I have even coped one inch angle with a double zero cutting torch tip.  That is extreme but that is me :'))  Fitting is faster and more accurate iwth a cope.  Final adjustment can be made when tack welding.
Reply:Hey Lotecman, you wouldn't happen to have a pic of the coping method would you?  I'm having a hard time visualizing what gets cut.  Like mentioned earlier in post, i tried a 2x2 angle with a cheap chop saw and failed miserably, but was able to recover with a grinder.  thanks for ideas!
Reply:Lotecman, i should clearify.  after sittin down and thinking about it for 10 seconds i figured out what you're talking about, but am still wondering how you make the second cut.  first cut is easy, vertical wall.  how do you cut along the inside or outside of the angle?
Reply:If I'm not mistaken about what you guys are calling coping, it should also be stronger because there is more surface area on each part being welded to the other. 3 sides vs. 2Sure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:Could one of you post a pic of this coping.
Reply:I have some drawings I did.... will look through my hard drive.  You can cope angle, channel , and beams.   Each is slightly different.
Reply:Go to pictures and projects.  Over the next few days....  Ask questions.  I will add more diagrams.
Reply:hey thanks Lotech.  I tried one this evening making the first cut with the chop saw and used the grinder for the cut along the edge.  i think i'll try one with the torch next and clean it up with the grinder.  there's got to be another cutting tool for the edge cut i'm not thinkin of.
Reply:Hacksaw?!?!Sure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:LOL babydaddy,I too tried one this evening. I made a License Plate holder out of angle to mount on our Trailer.  I must say the fitup was better but imo it took longer.  Had to cut one side, then bend piece off and then do some grinding.   I'd rather just buy a bandsaw lol...RubenZ, i'm with ya on the bandsaw thing.  maybe that's next on the list of necessary equipment.  on the other hand, Lotechman talks about using the torch for the cuts and i am by no means an exper with the torch, so using that tool might get me the practice i need to become even more familiar with gas settings, capability and technique.  I do know i'll be copeing all my framing projects from now on as it seems to require less guess work on the joint fit ups.
Reply:I too am looking to purchase a torch.  Probably next paycheck though.  I've spent too much this past month. AC225SP175TChop SawMisc stuffjust too much money for one month.
Reply:right there with ya on the cash spendin.  hope the innitial cost is just that.  did you get the buzz box (225) new?  I'm looking for a used one to fall in my lap here.  and if i keep buyin steel and NOT producing anything for the wife, she's going to burn down my garage!  I got the Lincoln/harris torch kit from home depot.  not the mini set, the cut torch kit with the braze tip etc.  i think it was around 165 bucks.  only reason i did that was a friend gave me a set of tanks!  wow, didn't know tanks were ~250 a piece!  what a good friend.  i gotta feeling he's going to want some work in return though.  if it's cuttin he wants, cuttin he'll get.  that's as fun as welding.  i dig the destructive devices!
Reply:Ya, I original bought the buzz box new. It was to be a tool to use when I needed something welded.  But then some strange thing happened and I liked it too much  and decided a MIG machine is a must have as well   so there I go and buy a MIG as well.  I still need to get the tank.  I got the guages etc.
Reply:hey you should try doing some fluxcore with your mig.  i think your 175 can handle up to .045 wire?  i've got the 135 plus but havn't tried the fluxcore wire yet just cuz i've got the tank all set up.  from what i've been reading and been told, the flux core is good for rusty/outdoor windy applications.  so far i've been cleaning everything(rusty stuff).  the stuff i haven't cleaned tends to spatter and break the arc/current and give a funny/different sound than the clean.  i'm curious as to how the fluxcored wire really works.  you don't need gas for that either.
Reply:I just returned the Ridgid chop saw.  It's clamp was pure crap.  Supposed to be toolless (doesn't even come with the wrench.)  Not only did I need a wrench, but I also needed a screwdriver and a hammer.  For a one-month-old saw!I also have the DeWalt DW872 carbide saw, so I just ordered the DW871 abrasive to go with it.  Right now, there is a promotion for a free DW4202 grinder by mail, also.I always used a speed square for mitering.  A speed square hangs next to the saw in the shop.  If you keep the square handy, you'll not need to look for it, and you'll be glad to know you're getting a true miter.  The marks on the base are usually pretty close, but they just have thick lines and setting up with the square is actually faster, assuming you keep it handy.Last edited by MAC702; 04-27-2006 at 04:08 PM.
Reply:Mac,Ive had bad luck with the rigid saw too.  Had one job I was at.  No good.  I agree a about the speed square.  Very handy if its in a good spotIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Odd.  Some folks including myself really like the Ridgid chop saw.  Other folks seem to think it's worthless.  There doesn't seem to be much middle ground.-Heath
Reply:I have the DW871 and its been great so far.  I just think their angle markers are a tad off.
Reply:Originally Posted by halbrittOdd.  Some folks including myself really like the Ridgid chop saw.  Other folks seem to think it's worthless.  There doesn't seem to be much middle ground.
Reply:Okay, so what's a 'speed square'?
Reply:When you are miter cutting, the blade motion is trying to pull the metal sideways out of the vise.So a miter cutting saw must be heavier duty, and have a much stronger vise than a saw that just makes straight cuts.This is an unfortunate fact of physics.All of the cheap chop saws are too light to really do this right-But to make a saw that will do it costs money. The best circular saw for mitering steel is a REAL cold saw- not a chop saw with a stamped steel base that weighs 40 pounds.Some of the chop saws are better than others, but if you want a real hardcore miter saw, you gotta move up to a real cold saw, one that weighs in at 750 lbs or so, with a vise alone that weighs more than those rinky dink chop saws.Like this-http://www.doringer.com/d350.htmObviously, all of sudden we are talking real money- although I got mine used for a grand, and they come up on ebay from time to time. The difference is night and day- they have full time coolant pumps, and are quiet, fast, and accurate, for any angle.The only cheap way to go is a bandsaw- they will cut pretty big stuff at angles relatively accurately. But it takes a mighty big, heavy duty bandsaw to compete with a cold saw.
Reply:Originally Posted by scott brunsdonOkay, so what's a 'speed square'?
Reply:You cant do metalworking or woodworking without one of those squares   They are a must have.
Reply:I put some little button magnets in my 12 inch so that I can lay it against large tubing and it stays in place.  I drilled 5/16th holes if I remember correctly then a dab of epoxy was added to secure them.
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechmanI put some little button magnets in my 12 inch so that I can lay it against large tubing and it stays in place.  I drilled 5/16th holes if I remember correctly then a dab of epoxy was added to secure them.