Pulsed Welding

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If you are using an electric welder you are in, theory, already "pulse" welding at 60 pulses per second.Anyone care to comment?Wanted to start a new discussion.
Reply:Not if you're running a decent DC unit
Reply:Not really since pulse has a background current running also.  AC welding does pulsate, but it lacks the background current and it lack all the characteristics of pulse.
Reply:Maybe this help...Mauricio
Reply:You are never "wrong" when you post an opinionHere is a simple AC sine wave, cycle,hertz or"pulse".There are 60 of these in one second of current flow. ie 60 cycles, 60 hertz or 60 "pulses"Pulsed welding allows you to control the height, width, shape, frequency of each of the pulses. Attached Images
Reply:Herre is a picture of a full bridge rectified AC current the line represent 1 cycle, hertz or pulse. Attached Images
Reply:Hello weldbay, there are any number of ways that one could consider your "opinion", I am not being argumentative, simply considering the many different scenarios. If you throw a motor/generator welder into the mix or include inverter welders then you could argue against the specific 60 hertz "pulse theory". Just about every machine that has the ability to provide "modified" welding current(hot starts, inductance control, dig, AC hertz control, output wave modification) may or may not tweek the frequency of the output. Almost all of the inverter welders modify the hertz of the input frequency before they rectify it to DC, I believe, speaking of DC output inverter welding power supplies specifically. Mostly the old school electrically powered welders, other than the motor/generators, would somewhat support the 60 hertz statement and the "pulse" theory. Interesting topic, looking forward to responses from some of the more electrically adept folks on the forum. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:I agree and any one of those indvidual functions you mention control some portion of the generated or supplied input. They change width,height,duration,shape or frequency.  I am sayting mostly that pulsed welding is doing the same thing with more control.My goal here is to simplify, yet explain pulse welding.  I see many of the members trying to decide which welder is best for them. Standard tig, pulse tig, square wave or syncrowave. I also assume some might be wondering about the advantages and disadvantages of pulsed mig.Hope more join the discussion for if there is one thing my years in the welding industry has taught me is that you just can not know everything, albeit very humbleing.
Reply:From what I was taught to believe, the power company only has to supply an average of 60Hz in a 24 hour period. You might get 57 Hz right now but 63Hz in the next hour. As far as pulse welding, Im all ears.
Reply:I was thinking about a discussion on Pulse Tig AC for aluminum for a starting point, seems common and should be of interest so I will put some info together and post it later. I would definitly appreciate questions and input.
Reply:Hello weldbay, I'll be interested to see what you come up with. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:You my friend are an idiot. And yeah we run 60hertz in the US so actually you are crossing the zero voltage line 120 times/sec. And no it's not considered pulse, not even in theory. As discussed already there is no background amperage without running true pulse. Like I said with AC your arc is actually going out 120 times/sec, how are you saying thats pulse when your losing all power when the AC wave is switching from DC+ to DC-. You sound like one of those guys who would argue up and down that high freq on a tig is used for cleaning action on aluminum. lol And in GMAW-P you only get wire transfer across the arc at peak amperage. --Gol'
Reply:You can pulse a/c.. That's what makes inverters amazing. You can pulse ac weld current and adjust frequency, pulse per second, peak amps, peak amps time percentage, background amps, waveform shape, percentage of ac wave shape positive and negative all at the same time on a dynasty. Pulsing isn't considered welding in ac mode. Who ever sold you that line got you good. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2Miller: 200dx, Bobcat 225, Passport, Powermax 45, Milwaukee: Dry Saw, MagDrill, grinders
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumYou my friend are an idiot. And yeah we run 60hertz in the US so actually you are crossing the zero voltage line 120 times/sec. And no it's not considered pulse, not even in theory. As discussed already there is no background amperage without running true pulse. Like I said with AC your arc is actually going out 120 times/sec, how are you saying thats pulse when your losing all power when the AC wave is switching from DC+ to DC-. You sound like one of those guys who would argue up and down that high freq on a tig is used for cleaning action on aluminum. lol And in GMAW-P you only get wire transfer across the arc at peak amperage.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbayIf you are using an electric welder you are in, theory, already "pulse" welding at 60 pulses per second.Anyone care to comment?Wanted to start a new discussion.
Reply:Miller Dynasty: pulse on/off, pulse frequency, peak % time, background amperage, initial amperage, initial slope time, final slope time and final amperage control.Can we all agree that the ability to control wave form supplied buy the power company has advantages and those advantages can be found in other Tig machines ie the Syncrowave. Those that do not have " full function "pulse" control.If so I would like to continue to discuss where those advantages are most often needed, why they are needed and what you might want to look for when you make your decision as to which Tig welder to buy.If not consider this discussion closed this is not a contest.Full function "pulse" AC welder.AC Waveforms Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbayI was thinking about a discussion on Pulse Tig AC for aluminum for a starting point, seems common and should be of interest so I will put some info together and post it later. I would definitly appreciate questions and input.
Reply:http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...rett-Firearms/http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...rols-inverter/AC benefitshttp://www.millerwelds.com/resources...6061-aluminum/For kennith..http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...TAW-frequency/Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Full function "pulsed" is  time cousuming, but would everyone agree that it might help when building up the edge on an aluminum boat prop. It does have areas of use and is used.The point is if you are looking at buying  a tig power supply for AC tig. Is it more important to decide how thick of material, skill level needed, condition of plate and weld appearance, than price?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbayFull function "pulsed" is  time cousuming, but would everyone agree that it might help when building up the edge on an aluminum boat prop. It does have areas of use and is used.The point is if you are looking at buying  a tig power supply for AC tig. Is it more important to decide how thick of material, skill level needed, condition of plate and weld appearance, than price?
Reply:Thank you,I will quit useing the word "pulse" and revert to wave form.  In fact you said it best, you have banned pulse from being used.  Full "pulse' is usually an accessory to tig machines the Dynasty 200 I mentioned earlier comes in models SD or more expensivly in DX. DX offers full pulse feature the SD offers:AC WaveshapeBalance 30 –99%AC Frequency 20 – 250 HzDX Pulse offers:Sequencer ControlInitial Amps AC: 5 – 200 ADC: 1– 200 AInitial Slope 0.0 – 25.0 SecondsFinal Slope 0.0 – 25.0 SecondsFinal Amps AC: 5 – 200 ADC: 1– 200 A Pulser ControlPulses per Second DC: 0.1– 500 PPSAC: 0.1– 500 PPSPeak Time 5 –95%Background Amps 5 – 95%Like I mentioned before I have been using and selling welders for over 35 years. Of these two choices what people want, both new and expierenced is the DX. Please don't take this wrong but why did you purchase machines with the "pulse" ability?I want this Post to help educate buyers about "hype" to help them choose the right machine.
Reply:Just because someone wants a certain model, does not mean they "need" a certain model.  The effect of good salesmanship and promotion is reflected in what models people are asking for.   Some of these features can compensate for lack of skill in certain areas but also contribute to more issues for the less experienced user.   Having owned a fancy inverter with all the extra features I can say I do not miss those when I switched back to an old transformer machine...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbayThank you,I will quit useing the word "pulse" and revert to wave form.  In fact you said it best, you have banned pulse from being used.  Full "pulse' is usually an accessory to tig machines the Dynasty 200 I mentioned earlier comes in models SD or more expensivly in DX. DX offers full pulse feature the SD offers:AC WaveshapeBalance 30 –99%AC Frequency 20 – 250 HzDX Pulse offers:Sequencer ControlInitial Amps AC: 5 – 200 ADC: 1– 200 AInitial Slope 0.0 – 25.0 SecondsFinal Slope 0.0 – 25.0 SecondsFinal Amps AC: 5 – 200 ADC: 1– 200 A Pulser ControlPulses per Second DC: 0.1– 500 PPSAC: 0.1– 500 PPSPeak Time 5 –95%Background Amps 5 – 95%Like I mentioned before I have been using and selling welders for over 35 years. Of these two choices what people want, both new and expierenced is the DX. Please don't take this wrong but why did you purchase machines with the "pulse" ability?I want this Post to help educate buyers about "hype" to help them choose the right machine.
Reply:Hello weldbay, we currently have a TA 300 GTSW in our shop that fits into the category of an inverter,variable hertz, pulse capable machine. I often will use the variable hertz control in conjunction with the balance control and the pulse control to aid in welding dirty aluminum castings. By playing with these controls a bit I can generally "clear" the oxidation/impurities out very nicely and make fairly decent weld repairs that a more traditional GTAW machine isn't capable of to the same degree. Additionally, we have 4 syncrowave 250 DX's w/pulse option, a couple of Dialarc HF's, and we're slated to receive 2 Dynasty 350 DX's. I am particularly looking forward to working with the Dynastys to test and experiment with all of their different functions and capabilities.aevald
Reply:I have to ask,what are you welding and what is the thickness.  These machines are all good machines and offer a lot of functions.  In a production shop I would not want my welders messing with all the controls not to mention most welders have no idea what they do.  If you need to use them then preset the welder for the weld you want and tell them to leave it alone.This will also provide consistancy and record how each weld was performed in case of any weld problems.Yes pulsed AC tig can asist in weld cleaning but so can simple AC balsnce control.  Also if you weld a lot of dirty plate switch to a Helium/Argon mix it loves dirty plate.Originally Posted by weldbayYou are never "wrong" when you post an opinion
Reply:Thats fine but do you have anything to add or do you just want to disagree.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbayI have to ask,what are you welding and what is the thickness.  These machines are all good machines and offer a lot of functions.  In a production shop I would not want my welders messing with all the controls not to mention most welders have no idea what they do.  If you need to use them then preset the welder for the weld you want and tell them to leave it alone.This will also provide consistancy and record how each weld was performed in case of any weld problems.Yes pulsed AC tig can asist in weld cleaning but so can simple AC balsnce control.  Also if you weld a lot of dirty plate switch to a Helium/Argon mix it loves dirty plate.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbayThats fine but do you have anything to add or do you just want to disagree.
Reply:Originally Posted by slotardhow much helium are you talking? it's SERIOUSLY expensive now.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverlol just being a wiseass moslty
Reply:weldbay,Your comment, "I've been around welders long enough", pretty much sums up my feelings about the "knowledge/expertise" you bring to the board.Big difference between welding with welders and selling them.  35 years of selling welding machines doesn't do jack for me.  In fact, some of the most uninformed people I've encountered in the industry were those who were selling machines.  If you don't believe me, just go to your LWS and ask for advice on setting up a Miller Dynasty.Furthermore, your comment about "dirty metal" loving an argon/helium mix is pure BULL.  No tig process "loves" dirty metal.Frankly, you seem to want to bring a bunch of "cookbook solutions" to the board, without any real experience to back them up.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:haha I love it when Sundown stops by to clean up some of the bottom feeders.
Reply:Please take a minute and follow the post below.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=170111
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIweldbay,Your comment, "I've been around welders long enough", pretty much sums up my feelings about the "knowledge/expertise" you bring to the board.Big difference between welding with welders and selling them.  35 years of selling welding machines doesn't do jack for me.  In fact, some of the most uninformed people I've encountered in the industry were those who were selling machines.  If you don't believe me, just go to your LWS and ask for advice on setting up a Miller Dynasty.Furthermore, your comment about "dirty metal" loving an argon/helium mix is pure BULL.  No tig process "loves" dirty metal.Frankly, you seem to want to bring a bunch of "cookbook solutions" to the board, without any real experience to back them up.
Reply:Originally Posted by BCTimberwolfhaha I love it when Sundown stops by to clean up some of the bottom feeders.
Reply:Just curious if anyone is going to define the terms used here?so far we've got posts all over the map, but nobody has actually defined the terms;  as they're using them.If you read this back, (and I did a few times) I get the impression we're all singing off different pages of the hymnal?I use a Dynasty 300DX and every one of its arc control features in both AC and DC, and not one poster has taken time to describe (define, label, contrast,show, illustrate) EXACTLY what's being discussed or to compare an apples-to-apples set of words/terms/diagrams. Isn't this topic kind of  'all over the map' ?   I'm not seeing where the group even agrees to one map!  Kind of our own Tower of Babel thread?I'm interested but can't follow what's being discussed?Could someone go back to the wave form images and label them and show "pulse" vs "wave form" or "AC potential variations" or "how HiFreq retains the 'arc' " when the wave passes through 0 (zero) potential?  I use what I think of as 'pulse' for very exact and specific welds' settings. Including; I use a very high rate of pulse to attain AC welds and DC weld that are simply impossible to do without that feature.  But there are others who clearly have not explored these weld forms and apparently can't see these functions for what they (may) contribute to various welds.If we're going to discuss that idea, can we do that without the different definitions we all agree apply?Without uniform terms, and individually repeatable welding experiments; how could we agree to ANY conclusion?  I think it is inevitable for the topic to help expand knowledge, there will have to be a uniform set of definitions and then a uniform set of weld tests?color me (very) interested but temporarily confused.I'm not whining about anyone's post just 'everyone' not defining their terms so I can follow allowing me (old and slow) to understand their point.  Give an old fat welder a break, will-ya? Cheers,Kevin Morin
Reply:Yes I agree, the point in general is that being able to contol wave form is the most important consideration when you choose an AC Tig mach.  Once you have set the Balance and Frequency most  machines are synergic in that once you have parameters that work for your application + or - 10 to 15% in Amps controls penetration and weldbead size, included with travel speed and stepping.As you can tell I am not a big fan of Pulsed tig with Al or SS.  In Mig however I am a big fan of Pulsing.Also this is just "my opinion" I do not understand why others would rather put me down instead of just disagreeing, guess it has to do with maturity.
Reply:This job required me to have a good PULSE  function in my machine.....Cosmetics was everything.........These are throttle shafts for Dedenbear  Drag RacingLast edited by B_C; 10-07-2012 at 01:22 PM.  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock