To needle scale or not.

admin

Is a needle scaler worth it?  Or is the hammer the way to go?If so, whats a good one?Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Needle scalers rock, but only if you don't care about the appearance of your bead.  It tends to beat the crap out of a bead turning a nice smooth bead into a pockmarked abomination.  A scaler would be good for a situation where you are doing multiple passes and you would use it for everything except the cover pass.  Hammers are also good, but for really tough slag, a scaler is faster.  As far as brand, I dunno.  I can guess that the one in the HF advertisment for $49.99 probably won't last too long if subjected to lots of abuse
Reply:I have used one in the past...I loved it.  The can help clean surfaces that are not easily accessible, in addition to knocking off slag...It gets into nooks and cranies that are impossible to hit with the grinder.  They are on the expensive side for air tools, however...at least given their heft.  If you try one, it'll be hard to look at a hammer the same way again.  I still don't have one, but I think of them often...Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:yea, it seems like theres allways this small piece of slag you keep missing with the hammer, and the brush wont budge if you know what I mean.  I may pick up that HF one (theres one only 6 miles away) one day.  Birthday present or something eh?Didnt know they were so hard on the weld.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Added benefit to a scaler: useful when a light peen is needed on a weld during cooling;Drawbacks to using a scaler: technique is important, as it is easy to peen slag into the weld so it needs to be ground out; if it exhausts toward the needles, you may end up with tool oil in the weld zone.
Reply:ahh, the plot thickens...  thanks for the info.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:I like mine, It's a jonnesway I think $120 through fastenal.  works great for rust and paint also.  it will pit a pretty weld though, but on some things it don't matter anyway.  Definatly worth the money.  I'm not sure about the HF model, my experience with their air tools is terrible.  I buy quality air tools.DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Gotta agrre with welderwoman here...scalers are great for cleaning your root passes or when your learning to help clean the slag outa those pesky undercuts but stick with the hammer for your cover pass unless appearence doesnt mean anything or its going to be ground down.Besides when ya get your heat and speed down(with the exception of a few flux types)your slag should perrty much lift itself off your weld or at least take only a quick hit and drag of your hammer to remove.True happiness to a arc welder is a foot long  perfectly formed chunk of slag just falling off the workpeice when ya move it!
Reply:My opinion; A needle scaler that fit’s the end of an air chisel is a much better tool than the cheaper purpose built scalers. Easier to grip and hits harder too. Cheap scaler throttle fails immediately, then the barrel falls apart. Great tool for peening, stress relieving, or cleaning hard scaly crudd. Probably not so helpful for common slag removal. Each needle is an 1/8” or so in dia, and mushroomed round from use. That pesky stuck pocket of slag probably won’t budge, or it’ll get peened  in.Last edited by denrep; 01-13-2007 at 01:16 AM.
Reply:Not to change the subject or anything, but why and when would you peen a weld?Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Originally Posted by DoolittleNot to change the subject or anything, but why and when would you peen a weld?
Reply:Thanks!Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:The training I recieved covering scalers is never peen the root pass or the cover pass. also peening is a form of stress relieveing the weld and is not limited to any type of welding we use it when repairing all cracks on equipment(earth moving). In multiple pass welds passes placed on other passes help to stress  relieve and  blend grinding does too.
Reply:Ok, so you need to peen welded crack repairs, Iron welds and multiple pass welds (just the filler passes).  Does that cover everything?  You peen right after the weld until it cools? (I see myself beating the tar out my weld for 15 minutes yuk).  I apologize ahead of time about this.  I can understand the stress relieving somewhat (it just seems that something a hard as steel would be affected by rapping it with hammer, weird).  Or perhaps it does the most good when its cherry red?  Gorsh, getting carried away with the questions.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Quote out of lincoln welding handbook page 3.1-7 Remove shrinkage forces after welding:peening is one way to counteract the shrinkage forces of a weld bead as it cools. Essentially, peening the bead stretches it and makes it thinner, thus relieving (by plastic deformation) the stresses induced by contraction as metal cools. But this method must be used with care. For example, root bead should never be peened, because of the danger of either concealing a crack or causing one. Generally, peening is not not permitted on the final pass, because of the undesirable work hardening effect. Thus, the utility of the technique is limited , even though there have been instances where between-pass peening proved to be the only solution for distortion or cracking problem. before peening is used on a job, engineering approval should be obtained.
Reply:Last edited by Dipper Welder64; 01-15-2007 at 06:51 PM.
Reply:Thanks again.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Just keep in mind there can be differing degrees of peening. Cleaning the slag off a cold bead with a small scaler isn't going to have the same effect as peening a hot weldment with a peening hammer. Just a guess on my part, but I would guess that in most cases quickly cleaning a bead with a small scaler would have about the same effect as shot peening, ie., surface treatment only.
Reply:can you reduce the air presher to make the scaler hit softer for diferent aplications, or is it a WFO situation?? can it be done lightly???i been playing with the idea of geting one for a few years now, almost ever scence i got my plasma but see it as having other uses if its ajustable, if it is ajustable i defenetly want to move it up on the wish list. ...maybee even into the gotta have list. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:the better scalers have a body that has detent positions in it that you rotate and move in or out to change how tight the grouping of the needles are...ie the tighter the group it is the more intense the peening....pressure will also change this of course.as your welding skill increases ull need less and less force to remove the scale and eventualy most of it will perrty much self release...unless intentionaly trying to peen the weld let it cool for a min or so then just lightely use the scalers around the edges of the bead.PS. thanks for the heads up on the root pass Dipper.I rarely use a scaler anymore unless its a tight trouble area but i woulda been more concerned about peening slag into the root causing inclusions instead of hiding cracks.Always good to hear concerns from others...much better than a possible failed weld!!!
Reply:Just wanted to update everyone.  Held off on the needle scaler for a while.  Im taking a community class on stick welding right now (1st class was just safety stuff).  Just wanted to pass along that Im like the expert in the class thanks to the people on this site.  Im gonna sneak in a camera and take some pics of this guys shop (new school, new welders, new everything..)Hes gota a big bandsaw, shear, break and lincoln and miller machines, sheet cutting tables, milwaukee cutoff saw etc etc.  Were gonna use those little 200amp miller maxtars.  looks like lincoln 225 or 275 tig machines and various cutting torches/plasmas.  The machine shop is next door, im gonna try to take a peak at whats actually in there (bunch of cnc stuff looks like).I was running 1/8 rod on 1/4 inch steel at around 140~150 amps.  It seems when your that hot, the flux is a bit stickier.  My beads are getting better and Ill just keep at it and use the schools electric, machines, steel and rod.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.