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Hi All,I need to do some automotive modifications to a car in non-structural sections. I have read that using silicon bronze in a mig process to brave the steel sheets together can make the job much easier. Unfortunately I do not have any experience with silicon bronze so have a few questions. The sheets I will be welding are in the 1.0 to 1.2 millimetre range. I have a choice of either 0.8 or 0.9 millimetre silicon bronze mig wire. From experience with steel I know that the smaller wire would be the correct choice if I was using steel filler wire but I'm not sure if that translates to silicon bronze?Also I have read that pure argon is the best shielding gas to use, can anyone with experience comment on gas choice?Thanks
Reply:I ran a little bit of it on galvanized sheet metal, 3 or 4 decades ago. Seems as I remember running 98% argon, and 2% oxygen, (but don't hold me to that). If we could, we ran everything down hill. Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:When you say that you ran everything downhill does that mean that the silicon bronze is runny and more effected by gravity than steel filler wire?
Reply:I haven't heard of MIG brazing. TIG with silicone bronze I've done in situations where I wanted to attach galvanized steel to non galvanized steel. I would say it goes to where the heat is without much influence from gravity. Jody Collier shows aluminum bronze as stronger than silicone bronze, TIG with ac.
Reply:It wasn't real runny, but had to move very fast! I can't remember ever running 100% argon, but it has been so many years ago now. Only reason I remember this, because sheet metal and me never got along. I remember when I thought 3/8-inch material was sheet metal. Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BI haven't heard of MIG brazing. TIG with silicone bronze I've done in situations where I wanted to attach galvanized steel to non galvanized steel. I would say it goes to where the heat is without much influence from gravity. Jody Collier shows aluminum bronze as stronger than silicone bronze, TIG with ac.
Reply:What I am actually doing is cutting a 4wd wagon into a dual cab, so I am fabricating a new back wall. The 4wd sits on a ladder frame so the back wall will not be structural.The new back wall will be made from aluminized steel sheet and will be mig blazed to the standard steel of the rest of the car.I am hoping that the lower temperature of the silicon bronze will prevent any warping in the sheet.
Reply:Originally Posted by DrZ00tI am hoping that the lower temperature of the silicon bronze will prevent any warping in the sheet.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPGood luck with that! Technique, and weld sequence will come into play here! Think about lots, and lots of tacks.
Reply:Everything I have read says that silicon bronze is ideal for automotive and thin sheet work as it does not have the pull that steel filler does. Have I misunderstood or is it still very difficult to keep a sheet from warping while using it?
Reply:I know there are lots of videos on you tube about body and fender welding. I need to back out of this conversation. I'm more comfortable with self shielded wire at around 400 + amps.Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Everdure is the original trade name for this Silicon bronze. You need to use more of it to match the strength of steel. More means more heat applied to a broader cross section of base metal which can result in more warpage. Now for repair work of filling rivet holes or closing cracks or adding patches, yes, has it's place, but coupling panels, no. Esab easy grind wire was developed for auto body work, by Union Carbide, Lines division. It takes less current to flow the metal, and with skill can be welded over a joint with minimal size and good penetration. Silicon bronze is the polar opposite but does have excellent wetting characteristics. The big plus it grinds easier than er70-s6, and definitely easier than everdure.There also used to be a small diameter metal core wire excellent for thin steel sheets. I don't recall the name but I have been able to mimic the results with .025 EasyGrind, and Metalloy Vantage .035 metal core. Both excellent for auto body work IMO. C-25 is preferred gas.Last edited by shovelon; 09-08-2014 at 08:54 AM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Just had a bit of a search and I'm not sure that esab easy grind is sold in Australia. Will have to ring around tomorrow and do a bit more research.
Reply:Originally Posted by DrZ00tJust had a bit of a search and I'm not sure that esab easy grind is sold in Australia. Will have to ring around tomorrow and do a bit more research.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThey do make it in .030" diameter also. It feeds well in my little lincoln where .025" kinks. On further investigation it is called ESAB/Allstate Easygrind wire. They do sell it in 2 lb. spools for spoolgun if your machine can take it.
Reply:It's very expensive!Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:you are most likely going to need a push-pull mig gun to use SiBr mig wire.I have TIG welded SiBr alot on sheetmetal and don't really see MIG doing a great job if you are trying to do patch panels in freestanding sheetmetal areas.
Reply:Any of the Sil Bronze that i did on car sheet metal was for seam seal not to hold it together ...you could probably get away with doing lap joints with it ...Not Butt welds...These were all tig braze as torch brazing was not working for meIt was butt welded or flanged and plug welded and some stitch welds in areas i deemed necessaryThanks to Terry for giving me a spool of the easy grind wire it made it much easier to grind down the butt welds to a flat profile You could not tell where i welded the sheet metal together when finishedBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:I have a rough plan in my head and there will be no butt welds, all of the joins will be lap. I had planned to do some intermittent welds with steel filler wire and then use the silicon bronze to fill the seams in the exterior lap joints
Reply:Originally Posted by Jimmy_popyou are most likely going to need a push-pull mig gun to use SiBr mig wire.I have TIG welded SiBr alot on sheetmetal and don't really see MIG doing a great job if you are trying to do patch panels in freestanding sheetmetal areas.
Reply:The local powder coater / fence manufacturer here does all their welding including some structural with silicon Bronze Mig using 100% argon. In another life time I did a bit in a car factory, only seem welds though, too long ago to remember much but I don't recall it bein much different to normal Mig.Cheers AndrewWIA 270amp Mig Transtig 200 AC/DC Tig/stickHypertherm PM45 |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:01:00