What do you do with your Tig??

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Hello everyone, I have been searching these forums for about three moths now getting bits of info on what brand welder I should get. I have decided after talking to a friend who is a welder and reading posts that I will stick with Miller or Lincoln for reliability and quality.My friend is mainly a mig and stick welder and has little experience with tig but he swears by lincoln and miller. He uses these to pay the bills and put food on the table for his family. So after reading countless threads and internet Q&A's I have decided that it is worth spending the money on these quality machines.I am now in the process of deciding which model to get to fulfill my needs workwise and budgetwise.I mainly want to use the machine to do tube work up to an 1/8 thick. Roll cages, Work tables, motorcycle frames etc... I do however want to be able to weld the thicker material in case a job calls for it. I am unsure what I would be called to do with the welder so I would like to get some seasoned welders to provide insight on what kind of work I could run accross.So the question is, what do you seasoned welders here do with your machines?
Reply:You name it and someone here probably welds it.Here's a few things to think about that may help.Do you need to do alum, or can you get by just doing steel and stainless? To do alum you will need a machine capable of AC, and you need more amps to do alum than you do to weld the same thickness in steel. Adding alum to your wish list adds cost usually. General rule of thump is that you need 1 amp per .001 of material, add 15-20% to that for alum.Do you want to buy new or used? new for a dc only machine to do steel, figure roughly $1000 for a decent tig setup to start. If you want to do alum, Figure you will need at least $2300 to pick up a decent full function AC/DC tig. There are a few units that are less money, but you loose the advanced functions of better machines. Most below $2000 are geared towards the hobby market.Used, figure a budget of $500-900 for an older transformer based tig. Newer tigs can usually be found starting at $1000 and up depending on model, condition and accessories. You can do basic DC tig on steel and stainless with any DC stickwelder and a scratch start tig rig. If you already have the stick machine, figure $200-300 plus the cylinder to get you going if you shop right..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks DSW, Helpful figures to determine work material and power. I would like to be able to weld almost anything that can be welded. I dont believe I will do 1/2 inch AL too often but I would hate to turn down a job just because my welder is underpowered. How often do you get jobs that will call for a welder in the range of 350+ amps? I'm a big DIYer, so I believe even if I dont get a job with heavy amp requirements that I will soon find something I can't live without that requires it. I was looking at a local sale of a Syncrowave 300. Comes with Tanks, Pedal, Cooler 1, Leads, Torch, and some rods for 2500$. Looks well used but that just means it works. I dont want to lowball the seller but my budget is at about 2200$ right now. So I was going to offer what I've got.I would hate to get it though and find that I would have been better off finding a Syncro 350. There is one guy offering an older Miller 330 a/BP without tanks/pedal but he wants a 1K$. I saw one of these go for 450$ with a pedal but no tanks/cooler recently so i'm hesitant to spend the 1K$ on the 330 thats available now. But these things are monsters able to handle up to 460amps. That would definitely weld anything i could come accross I'm almost sure of it. So for the lower price I may just go with the 330A/BP.Thats kind of why I'm wondering what work you guys run into most. If I'll see 75% of the time material less than an 1/4" inch AL and steel and 20% 1/2" with 5% stuff thicker than a 1/2" then I would feel better about getting the 330A/BP. I am of course assuming open market and not industry type of work.(Overlooked mentioning this, that little tidbit is very important.) Industry is something I would attempt later, for now general consumer market is what I'm needing this welder for.
Reply:Another thing to think about is how big your service panel is vs how many amps (input) your 'new to you' welder uses. example, Miller syncrowave 250 eats about 96 amps (input) running full tilt. Where as a Miller Dynasty 200 eats about 15-16 amps (input) Both examples are based on 230v single phase power. So......If you only have a 50 amp dryer plug in the garage, you need to take that into consideration. Just my .02 cents
Reply:Thanks J-W, good to keep that in mind. As it stands right now Im looking to build a small "workshop" or covered carport if you wanna look at it that way  but in the process of I will be calling upon the skills of an electrician to grant me the power of Amperage!! (echo echo echo) I was wanting to install a 100 amp breaker to provide enough power to feed the welder. I had come accross that on several posts and realized it could be an issue if too small a breaker was in place so I just decided that I would go with what most people said they ran their larger welders on and that was 100amp breaker. this way I could eliminate that as a concern. I also need to run power for an air compressor and other electric money pits. I will of course put these with their own independent breakers.
Reply:A 330 A/BP is a nice older machine for someone on a budget. Zap here uses one daily where he works and quite a few others here have one also. No fancy bells or whistles, but a nice solid older machine. Downside is size, weight and a thirst for power. Then again any transformer machine that has a top end limit like it does will be power hungry. Miller also made them for Airco and possibly others and so they show up on occasion under different names and paint schemes. Several guys have picked up nice deals on these rebadged machines also.Price wise, it's one of those machines that will be on the low end that I quoted used. $500-900 where I live is normal depending on what comes with it. $450-600 is typical for bare machines with pedals. Note new pedals will cost you a bit, so keep that in mind if one comes up without one. Add to base if it comes with a separate cooler or cylinders. The units originally used street water thru the machine, so just because it has a water cooled torch doesn't mean it has a separate closed loop cooler.The Syncrowaves are also nice machines. Typical size for an average shop would be a Sync 250 which is about the output of the 330's baby brother the 320 ( which is also a nice unit almost identical to the 330 except for top output). Yes you loose a bit of top end power, but it will solidly do 1/4" and less. price for these used is typically $1500-2500 depending on condition and extras. Several guys here have found units on occasion for less however in very nice shape. Sync 300's are older models and very serviceable. 350's come up on occasion. The price listed for the 300 seems a bit on the high side of fair to me, but without details it's hard to say. I'd have to dig a bit and double check pricing guys here have picked them up for and see condition to really make a call.One nice thing about older machines is that often if you take care of them you can get a lot of your money back when you sell them if you decide to upgrade at a later date. It's not uncommon to get 75-100% of your money back if you got a decent deal, and I know several guys who have actually made money when they sold them if  were able to pick up real deals on nice lightly used machines..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Oldsilver, you might want to add your location. Someone on here may have a welder for sale near you. Those 330a/bp welders are nice, I use the Airco 300ac/dc alot. From what I've read its the same welder. Also keep in mind when getting the big welders like these you can't really take them anywhere.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:I have a 180 SD that is setup in the basement for tig that I got for $800.00. Great for what I do. I use it for metal art and those projects where a nice clean small weld is more appealing. Great for welding nuts for ''T'' handles. I like it  because there is little smoke and can do it in the heated well ventilated basement instead of the barn or garage. Plus, it is a change of pace from using a stinger. You gotta have multiple machines for different tasks and procedures .  Glad you will get a MILLER   or Lincoln  Well worth the investment !
Reply:I bought a 330 a couple of months ago, couldnt be happier with it. I learned on a 330, so I wanted to stick with it. Picked mine up for 500 with all accessories included. Its on wheels so I can move it if needed..because it is huge. I run mine on a 50a breaker and havent once popped it, yet. I love it though, Sure a newer syncrowave would have been nice, but being familiar with a 330 and seeing its track record seemed like a great idea.. so far it has beenMiller ab/p 330Hobart champ 16Miller 140Lincoln Power Mig 255Lincoln SA-250
Reply:Originally Posted by j440I bought a 330 a couple of months ago, couldnt be happier with it. I learned on a 330, so I wanted to stick with it. Picked mine up for 500 with all accessories included. Its on wheels so I can move it if needed..because it is huge. I run mine on a 50a breaker and havent once popped it, yet. I love it though, Sure a newer syncrowave would have been nice, but being familiar with a 330 and seeing its track record seemed like a great idea.. so far it has been
Reply:Originally Posted by vicrcIs there a big learning curve between the transformer based machine to a syncrowave and then to an inverter machine?
Reply:Not sure what your power situation is, but most residential services are 200 amps. You may piss off the wife if you take 100 of those amps just for your welder. Also if you go with a smaller machine you could rent a bigger machine for the jobs that need the extra amps. One other thought, I don't know what your welding background is, but if you are planning on taking any classes, they usualy have some pretty big machines you could possibly use for side projects.
Reply:Originally Posted by vicrcIs there a big learning curve between the transformer based machine to a syncrowave and then to an inverter machine?
Reply:"I am unsure what I would be called to do with the welder so I would like to get some seasoned welders to provide insight on what kind of work I could run accross."I am NOT a seasoned welder, but I bought a big heavy Transformer based TIG machine for welding aluminum. If I was going to do jobs all over the place I would get a smaller inverter based machine easy to move around. also i was told transformer machines wreck havoc on radio and TV signals so if you have it in the house it might cause interferance.
Reply:I run an inverter machine and it still makes static on my radio and florescent light, these are just above my workstation. But luckily no one in the household is experiencing my welding. I am on the same 200amp panel. Tig max is around 36 Amps at 240.
Reply:My little 180sd is a little light on amps. I did not do much tig before I got it, and it was more of a toy. I now mostly use it for repair work and the occasional aluminum job that comes into the shop. I am continually frustrated by the lack of about 20-30 amps. My advice is to get a 250 amp machine and no smaller.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelder"I am unsure what I would be called to do with the welder so I would like to get some seasoned welders to provide insight on what kind of work I could run accross."I am NOT a seasoned welder, but I bought a big heavy Transformer based TIG machine for welding aluminum. If I was going to do jobs all over the place I would get a smaller inverter based machine easy to move around. also i was told transformer machines wreck havoc on radio and TV signals so if you have it in the house it might cause interferance.
Reply:Sorry for just now posting back everyone. All the info is great.I was unaware that residential lines Maxed out at 200 amps. That's something I will have to work around.I spent most of my day at work and then tending to things around the house and I just now was able to read replies. Again, I thank everyone here so far for your very useful insight.To answer about my location. I am in Houston Texas, if anyone here reada this and has a good rig for sale I am interested.As far as classes go, I'm sure they would be useful but due to work schedule, fixing things, and family time I will have little time to fit classes in. I have welded MIG few times, enough to have a consistent weld but by no means a professional yet. I planned to get the tig and weld until I have gotten good consistent welds then weld some more. I imagine I can put in about 10 hours a month scattered in the evenings. In about six months I believe enough in myself I can do small jobs that don't involve anyone's saftey. I really wamt to build some tables and such. Then I'll progress to more things all the while keeping progress on this site and getting my buddy who has been welding for about 16 years to give me the thumbs up before moving onto bigger jobs.I was not too concerned with moving about since I am starting and not taking jobs too big for a beginner. I will do that later at which time I will het a smaller more portable machine. I was really wanting to know more about recent welding jobs people had done on this site so i can gauge what I may be able to do to bring some income in after getting more skill. Someone mentioned repair jobs. I imagine repairing some classic car floorpans, or some tubing on an exhaust, things like this. I am unsure what jobs are available to a beginner so knowing this will help me gauge how long I will have to practice before I am able to try to form some income from this investment. Thanks again, to everyone for your very useful insight and time.
Reply:Newer homes can have in coming power in excess of 200 amps. I've worked on several that had 2 200 amp "main" panels for a total of 400 amps to just the house. I also know several guys who have had separate meters and "main" panels installed for workshop/garages, usually detached units..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Keep in mind that you will not be using all 200 amps at once under real world conditions.  Even if you had your welder on kill, you'd probably have to have multiple AC units on while your wife is cooking on an electric range and drying clothes at the same time to even be close to it.  That's why when you add up all the circuit breaker amperages in you panel it will be 3-4 x the max input amps.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I wouldn't discount Esab, and especially their older machines (which, before they were bought by Esab, were Union Carbide, Linde, Heliarc or L-Tec).  I got my tig start using a lincoln buzzbox with a miller hi-frequency box but quickly decided I wanted a pedal and got myself a Linde UCC-305, giant transformer based machine and started doing AL and stainless with it.  I've since sold that machine and got an L-Tec Heliarc 307i which has pulse and lots of other dials to play with.As for work, I do some motorcycle stuff, repair a lot of aluminum canoes and flat bottom boats, some stainless exhaust stuff and fabricating.  For *most* of my steel work the go-to machine is actually an Esab Migmaster 351 but for many jobs with steel and all stainless and aluminum jobs the tig can't be replaced.
Reply:Thanks guys, the info is very much appreciated. Its good to know other reputable brands are out there. Don't want to come accross as a "fanboy" but looking into other brands at this point would be a step backwards. I will however keep those names in mind greenbuggy. If I run accross one in the future based on your word and research at that time I may pick it up.I want to post some links to the welders I found in my area. i will be contacting the sellers to see if they may be interested in making a deal. If there is anything you guys would like to add once reading the posts I will be glad to read (price, condition, accessories = value??). Thanks.This one is SOLD already:http://houston.craigslist.org/tls/3423692660.htmlwanted to add it to compare with the other 330a/bp in my areaOther 330 a/bp:http://houston.craigslist.org/tls/3442237918.htmland here is a syncrowave: http://houston.craigslist.org/tls/3471478316.htmlAll the others I had found seem to be gone. I can put in a "Want" ad but there is no telling. I guess i will submit a want ad to see what people may be motivated to sell. Well gentlemen, any additional info is greatly appreciated.Thanks for the info on what repairs you are called upon for. It is useful to know I can benefit from this investment at some point in the near future. Any other work that comes to mind I sure would like to hear about it. Thanks again everyone.Sorry forgot to add this one: Lincoln Electric 255 Square Wave Tig http://houston.craigslist.org/tls/3470151240.htmlSaw one of these go for 1700$ and thought this one might be a bit pricey. Let me know what you guys think. Most all of the lincolns in my area are out of my budget except for this one.Last edited by oldsilver; 12-11-2012 at 10:59 PM.
Reply:If you aren't using a CL aggregator like Searchtempest, you might want to try it. It expands your search radius. I usually use "welder" as my search term and then sort the list manually to find "hidden" deals.http://www.searchtempest.com/Prices seem a tad high for what I see in the picts. The I don't see any torch or pedal in the picts of the Syncro 300.  Might be there, might not. The 330 looks rougher than I usually see them. $1K is on the high end. I'd keep looking or offer less for either machine. Prices vary by region, so it pays to get a feel for what shows up local. I know some of the Cali guys almost always have higher prices than I see where I'm at on the east coast..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks DSW, I have never even heard of a CL aggregator. Sounds like an amazing tool. i will be using this right now. Did you see the added lincoln at the bottom? what are your thoughts?
Reply:No I missed that one. I'm not really a Lincoln guy, not too many guys run Lincolns in my area for some reason. I'd have to dig a bit to see exactly where that machine falls power wise to think about price. Looks nice and clean however. Looks like that Lincoln is roughly equivalent to the Syncro 250 with a quick look. $2200 looks fair.  Mid to high end of what I'd expect to see for a 300 amp max tig. If it's a nice clean lightly used machine it may very well be a good price depending on what all comes with it.Yeah Searchtempest makes it easy to look for stuff. Unfortunately CL made it tougher for them to do searches, so it's not as nice as it once was. It's a bit more awkward and takes a bit of fiddling with to learn the ins and outs now..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald ReaganFrom the looks of it and the little I found on it it is comparable to the syncro 250. I let several welders slip from my fingers. It was not more than two weeks ago there was at least 5 millers for sale here in Houston and now there are about two that fit my budget but not my needs/wants. I will have to keep looking. The lincoln is interesting but I have done more familiarizing with Millers. I will keep on looking but will talk to the lincoln seller to what he can tell me about this machine.Thanks DSW, you have been very helpful. My wife is demanding i follow my bedtime curfew and hit the sack. I just had to get some posting/searching done before I lay to rest. See you guys tomorrow.Any more info/advice/work thoughts is eagerly read. Thank you all.