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I'm a hobby guy on a tight budget. I am looking for competent 1/4" mild steel capability, maybe pushing it for more on a limited basis.I've made several posts on OA since I plan on adding a cutting torch to my equipment arsenal, based on cost vs. plasma. Thanks for the many informative replies, especially DSW.I have seen a few references to propane as the heat gas part of the equation.Since I have grill tanks, that could replace the cost of an acetylene tank.I know nothing about this, so what is the viability of this proposition? Can I use an OA cutting set up for this or am I into a completely different arena? I realize I still need the oxygen cylinder and regulator.Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 and WP17. 75A AC is for pipe thawing!HH 140 - new addtion 9/2012.I didn't agree, but hoped for Hope and Change.I got change for myself and my family: for the worse.This is the reality of: Barackalypse Now. Again.
Reply:Propane works great for cutting. Way cheaper too. Most OA torches will run Propane but you need different cutting tips. You should also change to a hose that is designed for propane.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:I just recently switched to propane. Haven't used it since the mid 1980s.Some 1-inch thick plate I cut.Here is a good video about it. Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I've never used propane, so I don't have anything to add there, but I do have a question: how much cutting do you expect to do? The #0 acetylene cutting tip on my smith torch will cut up to 3/8" and uses 6 SCFH of gas. Around here, it's not uncommon to be able to pick up a 75cf acetylene tank for < $100 (I bought my full 145cf tank for $100). Sure, the fill is definitely more expensive than propane...I think it was about $40 to fill my 75cf tank when I had that...but if you're only using 6 cf per hour, that means you'll get a solid 12 hours of cutting time from your torch. If you're just doing this as a hobby, I don't think you'll end up with 12 hours of cutting time with a torch in your lifetime. I know I won't.What I'm getting at is, acetylene really isn't that expensive if you're not using it on a daily basis. And, I'm not even sure how much you'd save on the tanks by going with propane. I've seen complete and essentially full O/A setups with those 75cf cylinders for $200. If you go the propane route, you'll probably have to buy the torch/regulators and the oxygen cylinder separately, which may cost just as much in the end.Lastly, if you've never tried acetylene welding, you should give it a try. It's a TON of fun. I only recently bought an arc welder, so all of my projects up until now have been done with O/A. Even though I now have a MIG and a scratch-start TIG, I know that I'll still have projects in the future that I'll weld up with O/A.Cheers! - Ian
Reply:I use propane all the time. I got in to it for the same reason. A bbq tank was much cheaper than an acetylene. In a hobby environment, a bbq tank will last for ever. I think you go through oxygen faster, but don't know that for a fact. I have large enough tips I can cut almost anything.Bruce DeLaetHeavy Equipment Mechanic and Welder1948 SA-200 short hood1949 LincWelder 1801963 SA-200 red faceMiller S-32-P
Reply:Not all Acet regs are set up with teh correct CGA valve to use propane direct. Some will need an adapter so you can screw them into the propane tank, or you will have to swap out the nut and nipple on the reg to the correct CGA fitting. No big deal, but something to be aware of if you are buying a reg. I'd have to look at my acet regs to remember which CGA fitting is for propane/ acet and which is just for acet and needs the adapter..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:IMO...The upside to propane is that you are freed from the 1/7 rule of acetylene - wherein you cannot draw more that 1/7th the capacity of the cylinder per hour. The downside is that the burn temperature of propane/oxygen is not high enough to weld steel properly - compared to acetylene/oxygen.For welding the gas consumption is:a) 1 part of acetylene requires 1 part oxygen.b) 1 part propane/propylene requires 4 parts oxygenI have 60 ft^3 acet and a 83 ft^3 oxygen set up.So my acetylene 1/7th withdraw limit is 60 ft^3 / 7 = about 8.5 ft^3/hr.According to the welding tip charts from Hooper Welding Supply...Steel thickness Victor tip size Acetylene ft^3/hr1/32 - 5/64 ".............0...................... 2 - 43/64 - 3/32 ".............1...................... 3 - 61/16 - 1/8 "...............2...................... 5 - 101/8 - 3/16 "...............3...................... 8 - 183/16 - 1/4 "...............4..................... 10 - 25With my 8.5 ft^3/hr withdrawal limit, I am limited to welding about 1/8 inch thickness.Let's look at cutting.According to the cutting tip charts from Hooper Welding Supply...Steel thickness Victor tip size Acetylene ft^3/hr Oxygen ft^3/hr1/8 ".......................000................. 5........................251/4 ".......................00................... 6........................353/8 ".......................0..................... 8........................601/2 ".......................0.....................10.. .....................653/4 ".......................1..................... 13.......................85With my 8.5 ft^3/hr withdrawal limit, I am limited to cutting up to about 3/8 inch thickness.Note that cutting with acetylene requires about 7 parts oxygen to 1 part acetylene,Compare that to neutral flame welding where it's 1 part oxygen to 1 part acetylene.Thus after a neutral fame, you need 6 parts of oxygen to oxidize/cut iron-type metal.A neutral flame with propane requires 4 parts oxygen to 1 part propane.Cutting with propane requires an addtional 6 parts of oxygen to oxidize/cut iron-type metal.That means cutting with propane/oxygen requires 1 part propane to 10 parts oxygen.It appears you would use 10 / 7 = 1.43 or 43% more oxygen for cutting with propane compared to cutting with acetylene.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Propane uses CGA 510 also a common acetylene fitting.Oxy/Propane is 4:1 where oxy/aceylene is 1.1:1The difference between propane regulator and acetylene is the diaphram spring and the gauge.CGA does not recommend changing regs from one gas service to another,ie acetylene to propane......real world it will make little to no difference but NEVER use a propane reg on acetylene as it could be regulated above 15 psi and will become very unstable.Acetylene has a higher flame temp but propane puts out more BTU.
Reply:For cutting and heating you can't go wrong with LP gas, I have been running propylene for almost 10 years and I do not miss acytelene one bit. In a pinch I run propane with the same tips. You get lots of heat, better secondary cone BTU output, and a cleaner cut for a lot less money. Most scrap yards run propane and LOX, and most burning tables run fuel gas. Acytelene is only needed if you are welding, other than that it is obselete for cutting and heating.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:There are cutting torches and combination torches where a cutting attachment or single flame or multi flame attachments can be used. Either way dedicated cutting or combination most stuff is probably approved by the manufacturer for either fuel. There are dedicated alternate fuel only cutting torches and attachments. The airco or smiths for instance are tip mix so the torch itslf isn't at all fuel specific in design the way I see it.The acetylene is simpler soon you will be able to turn of the fuel light it and look at the flame, If it is super tiny there is no soot, as you increase the flow it throws off soot, at some point there is no soot and then the flame stands off the end before blowing out. Upon examining what you want to cut how thick it is how close to heat sucking weld fillets, whether you ground it shiny and perhaps other factors set the flame add preheat oxygen and you are set up. The propane isn't as simple and repeatable. Quite often it is necessary to increase both gasss a bit at a tim to get where you wasnt to be. I find the dedicated alternate fuel equipment for me most of the time I can just point the nozzle straight up, turn the fuel on and by the distortion of light waves in fuel mix vs air get an easily lightable flow and then once lit adjust to a desired flame length and add oxygen asneeded without going back and forth. At any rate the acetylene is more repeatable.If you loose the cut with acetylene it is re started more simply and reliably at the point it is lost. For something like quarter inch steel probably just let off the oxygen cutting stream and wait a couple of secondsI find using a track device that does the travel and holds the distance from the work there is no advantage to acetylene unless perhaps a bevel on a cold piece. The gouging seems to work good for me with propane or natural gas. Cutting off nuts and using curved trimming nozzles is teritory for acetylene at least for me. I keep practicing with the last bit of oxygen in a cylinder before going to get a new one with a trimming nozzle and what a mess compared to acetylene. Well I guess if you heat it up totally red it would cut good but that isn't necessary with the acetylene. There are acetylene nozzles that are flat and have two holes sometimes labeled rivet cutting and sometimes labeled trimming, the alternate fuels have nothing like them.For what you want nozzles with six drill size 73 preheat holes is pretty common and will work off a 40 cubic foot size acetylene cylinder at room temperature. Both gasses have withdraw rates that go down as it gets cold and the common rules are not for non heated areas in the winter.Fran
Reply:There are just as many tip variations for LPhttps://www.thermadyne.com/IM_Upload...-2007_Feb2012/Pages 68-69 show themDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Propane...Slower preheat...Clean cuts. For Smith torches you'll need 2 piece propane tips, a different tip nut and a tip adapter. One downside to propane is increased oxygen use.REAL TRUCKS DON'T HAVE SPARK PLUGS
Reply:Originally Posted by Old SkoolFor Smith torches you'll need 2 piece propane tips, a different tip nut and a tip adapter. One downside to propane is increased oxygen use.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manI never needed a different tip nut for my Smith torches. I have the Gas Axe and regular Sc229's. And what is a tip adapter? BTW, I am using genuine Smith SC50 series tips.
Reply:Originally Posted by Old SkoolI'm not in the shop now & don't know offhand the model # of our Smith torches but for propane use they require an adapter that slips into the torch head under the tip, round with a series of holes in the adapter and a different tip nut.Just looked up a SC50 tip, ours are 2 piece tips, going to have to see if our LWS carries them.
Reply:Chentane 2 is the best if you are not using the torch to weld.miller xmt 304 w/ 22a feederdynasty 200dx tig runnerspeedglas 9100xvictor journeymen O/Aesab shadow 5000 shape cutterClausing Drill Press setAVIA d.r.o. milling machine ercolina ercobender 76baileigh hsp-66mJD2 notchmaster
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNot all Acet regs are set up with teh correct CGA valve to use propane direct. Some will need an adapter so you can screw them into the propane tank, or you will have to swap out the nut and nipple on the reg to the correct CGA fitting. No big deal, but something to be aware of if you are buying a reg. I'd have to look at my acet regs to remember which CGA fitting is for propane/ acet and which is just for acet and needs the adapter.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VIMO...The upside to propane is that you are freed from the 1/7 rule of acetylene - wherein you cannot draw more that 1/7th the capacity of the cylinder per hour. The downside is that the burn temperature of propane/oxygen is not high enough to weld steel properly - compared to acetylene/oxygen.
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott YoungYou have some good info in the majority of the post, but the reason you can't weld with the propane isn't that it doesn't get hot enough, it is that it doesn't provide a proper environment for a good weld. Think shielding gases.
Reply:If you don't do any form of gas welding then i would use propane, Its cheaper, safer and with the correct nozzles you can cut a large variety of thicknesses.When i had my workshop in the UK i could get building insurance but i had to pay ( approx $2500) premium if i wanted to use acetylene. If i just used propane there was no premium to pay. So not sure what its like in the states but it will work out cheaper based just on cost if you use propane.
Reply:I prefer to cut with Acetylene, and I can't tell you exactly why (I don't know really). But, I have used propane since about 2007. I still have almost a hundred cutting tips, heating/welding tips and rosebuds for acetylene though and use it when there is no propane. I just can't justify the cost of using acetylene for cutting. Yes the oxygen cost is higher, but when you consider that you can use the propane through an air/fuel head preheater for all your heating and completely bypass the O2 then the cost is cheap. It takes too much time and too much fuel to heat without O2 for straightening/bending, but for all your preheat needs all you need is an air/fuel preheater (weed burner). You can build one using a zerk as your jet.
Reply:Go with the propane.It cuts just as easy, really! You just have to remember not to hold the torch too close for the preheat, it's different than Acetylene.You'll also find that you don't have as much slag blowing around with propane, it's a gentler cut. A good thing when you have to worry about starting fires while working."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:If all you want is a cutting torch, with s8me heating capabilities, propane is the way to go. Acetylene really is no better at either one, and is more dangerous and expensive. It could also be argued that propane is slightly easier to learn to make clean cuts with.Welding, brazing, etc is where acetylene shines.Constant Current Weldor.
Reply:I use Propane for about 90% of my cutting but if you ever have to start a piercing cut in the middle of a piece of 3/4" plate you'll find that is where Acetylene is best.I keep it on my truck just for such times. Takes about a minute to swap the reg. over to the bottle and cut the holes then switch back for the regular cuts where I have an edge to start on.Trailblazer 302Hobart Stickmate AC/DCLincoln SP 135 TSmith torchSpoolmatic 30A
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammGo with the propane.It cuts just as easy, really! You just have to remember not to hold the torch too close for the preheat, it's different than Acetylene.You'll also find that you don't have as much slag blowing around with propane, it's a gentler cut. A good thing when you have to worry about starting fires while working.Originally Posted by jtcnjnothing gets your immediate attention faster than being on fire |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:58:56