Second day Welding

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So today was my second day welding, if you can even call it that. I was having serious issues getting an arc started. I'm not sure why. Yesterday I had some problems with it but after a few tries I was able to do it at least. Today was a different story. I was only able to get one weld about half an inch long (had too much gap). After about two hundred attempts one weld seems pathetic.I was welding with a 6013 rod that's 5/64". Was welding a chair seat that was roughly 1/16". Started at 55 amps (way too low, stuck every time) then cranked it up to about 65, then 75, and then 90 amps. Maybe yesterday I just got lucky. I don't know, tell me what you think. Attached ImagesLast edited by lighttekku; 10-12-2014 at 07:53 PM.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:You might try a smaller rod.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikYou might try a smaller rod.
Reply:You can get a general chart. Web search stick welding electrode chart.I don't want to go assuming anything and making comments on a subject that I in no way shape or form have anything of an idea about what is going on  compared to the amount of information actually available to the op's senses and knowledge other than what I have been told. I might be held liable for this crap you know.Yes using too large an electrode can exhibit symptoms as you describe but in the end it is up to you to make the sense out of anything said here by others.My dumb azz is off the hook.
Reply:5/32 =140-180 amps and it's pretty huge for 1/16" material
Reply:5/32 rod is going to be operating at over 100 amps.  At the amps you are trying you need 3/32.
Reply:@Mikecwik I'm here to learn from others. I will take your suggestion seriously. If it doesn't work then I'm just in the same place that I'm in now and I won't consider it your fault. I'm not here to say. "Omg I'm doing exactly what Mike said and it's not working he must've given me horrible advice and is trying to make me the worst welder ever" although I'm young I'm not a child and appreciate your thoughts.@Firemanmike69 alright, the chart I have shows 5/64" as capable from 75-95 amps but it came with the welder so maybe they are just trying to make it look like it's better then it is? I don't know. Actually the rods I was using came with the welder.Last edited by lighttekku; 10-12-2014 at 07:52 PM.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:@Ksnyder maybe they are 3/32 let me checkCraftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Correction, they are 5/64 not 5/32 sorry for the confusionCraftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Originally Posted by lighttekku@Mikecwik I'm here to learn from others. I will take your suggestion seriously. If it doesn't work then I'm just in the same place that I'm in now and I won't consider it your fault. I'm not here to say. "Omg I'm doing exactly what Mike said and it's not working he must've given me horrible advice and is trying to make me the worst welder ever" although I'm young I'm not a child and appreciate your thoughts.
Reply:@Mikecwik ahh gotcha. I was reading your post wondering why you sounded so defensive. I read over my OP about 5 times trying to figure out why you were walking on eggshells. Glad to hear I'm not going crazy lol.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Maybe switch your leads.
Reply:Switch my leads for new ones or switch up on their positioning? I'm thinking maybe that my ground clamp wasn't sufficient enough as well. I had it clamped to the edge of the seat, maybe I should have attached it vertically instead of one side attached to the lip and the other attached to the seat.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Ksnyder5/32 rod is going to be operating at over 100 amps.  At the amps you are trying you need 3/32.
Reply:@Storeman actually originally I put 5/32" I checked the rods and realized that they were actually 5/64"Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Heat up your rods. I have trouble lighting up vertical welds. I have a piece  13in piece 3/4  sch 40 pipe ill stick the rods in weld beads around or heat up with a torch. Then weld with the rods
Reply:Interesting thought. I'll have to give that a try. From what I've read I shouldn't be having problems striking an arc with 6013s, supposedly they're one of the easiest rods to learn with.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Id go with a 6011 preferably. They can take heat. When i was learning I would burn an 1/8th in 6011 on 180 amps
Reply:Originally Posted by lighttekkuSo today was my second day welding, if you can even call it that. I was having serious issues getting an arc started. I'm not sure why. Yesterday I had some problems with it but after a few tries I was able to do it at least. Today was a different story. I was only able to get one weld about half an inch long (had too much gap). After about two hundred attempts one weld seems pathetic.I was welding with a 6013 rod that's 5/64". Was welding a chair seat that was roughly 1/16". Started at 55 amps (way too low, stuck every time) then cranked it up to about 65, then 75, and then 90 amps. Maybe yesterday I just got lucky. I don't know, tell me what you think.
Reply:I thought heat raised resistance?
Reply:make sure your ground is on good clean metal, and is secure. Make sure your leads are in their correct position as well. Learning to strike an arc and maintain it to weld is not the easiest thing to learn in the world. Keep at it, eventually there will be an AH HA moment and you will get it. keep posting progress and asking questions though, we will help you through it.- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:@swampwelder is that what you learned with originally? @Storeman yeah I edited it to make it more accurate in case someone thought it could be something else.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:If you ain't Redleg you ain't sheet.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikIf you ain't Redleg you ain't sheet.
Reply:@Camjeep3 thanks! I'll keep at it for sure. My leads are fixed and can't be switched so that's not the problem. It does seem difficult, but I know I'll get it.Question. When striking an arc do you keep moving after scratching the metal or do you have to hold it still for a nanosecond to let the arc "take"? I will definitely keep at it and posting progress. Hopefully in a few months(or more) you guys will be able to say "holy smokes, I remember when that kid couldn't strike an arc" and feel even better about helping us newbies. I notice that most new welders tend to make a couple posts and then stop coming back. That won't be me. Maybe one day I'll be able to help some new guys out like you guys are for me (and others).Craftsman 90 amp Arc welderOne thing that helps me is to see it. Have you been over to Youtube? Jody at weldingtipsandtricks has some really good closeup footage of him welding. Lots of it is tig, but he does have some stick videos. Id give watching those a try and focus on what he does and then try and apply that. Looking at your picture, maybe you are stricking to fast, or making too big of a motion? try to keep your movements smaller and deliberate. Once you strike just try and hold it and keep an arc. Once you get that down start running some beads- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:@Camjeep3 alright I'll go check it out. I have watched some videos on YouTube but haven't paid as much attention as I should to the start of the arc, just travel speed and stuff. Now that you say that I'm thinking that you're right. I'm striking it too far. Will watcha few videos on YouTube to verify if that's the problem. Thanks so much.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:@Camjeep3 I do believe that you're correct, I'm using too wild of a motion, will try again tomorrow and really focus on keeping my movements small. Will let you guys know how it goes.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:I've not had much luck with stick and 16 gauge. As a kid I did a number of Jeep bodies, In the day I had a set of torches. Oxy acetylene is in my opinion the easiest to learn if you need to weld very thin stuff. With it you have to learn stretching heat affected steel. When you heat solid metal until plastic it expands. Expansion is limited to the space it's confined to. When it cools, it shrinks. Until you get a bit more experience, try some 11 gauge. With it you don't have to worry as much about burning through. I expect you'll be at the limit of your welder's heat range to make it work.1/16" or 16 gauge is easiest with TIG or MIG. There are others more skilled than I who use stick successfully on auto body steel. I think of it as thicker than that.As for starting an arc, I suspect your ground clamp might be your problem. Open circuit voltage might be relatively high, as soon as electricity flows, voltage drops, the electrical pressure supporting flow through a poor connection is not there. The clean arc fails, the process repeats. Get a good clamp if you don't already have one, clean the area clamped till it is shiny, and get a short piece of finely stranded welder cable, strip off the insulation and use it to pad the ground clamp. Lightning travels miles at high voltage, spark plug circuits in a gasoline engine can sometimes jump inches, but the low voltage in a welding circuit won't jump much at all.
Reply:@Willie B At this point I don't have a clue what I will be welding in the future. Right now I'm just trying to learn as best as I can with the very limited (and by very limited I mean a couple bed rails that chair and a broken lawnmower deck) scrap metal I have access to. Maybe it would be better for me to try the bed rail first? Ok that makes sense. I'm not sure about how my clamp rates but I'm sure it's not considered good, especially considering it came with a $150 machine. I will try the insulation trick. Would copper stranding work for that?Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:OP:is your craftsman welder ac only? If it will do DC, try running electrode negative. If it's AC, it's not going to change anything to swap the polarity.Teach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:@Teachagmech unfortunately it's AC only.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Hold the rod with your off hand, electrode that small is too springy. When you see experts who weld all day every day, they use two hands, they hold the rod until it's too hot even with gloves. By then, it's shorter, and the arc is stable.
Reply:Get you a good pair small bolt cutters and cut the rods on half to make it easier to strike an arc an hold it.
Reply:Points taken. I think part of the issue is that with my helmet it's hard to see how much of a gap I have so its too wideCraftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Long not wideCraftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:lighttekku> “I will definitely keep at it and posting progress. Hopefully in a few months(or more) you guys will be able to say "holy smokes, I remember when that kid couldn't strike an arc" and feel even better about helping us newbies. I notice that most new welders tend to make a couple posts and then stop coming back. That won't be me.” That’s a really awesome attitude to take!!!! Way to think lighttekku!!!! Hang in there and keep at it no matter how much you think you suck and they’ll figure out a way to help you!!!--Maybe add what state you’re from just in case someone lives nearby who might be in a position to lend you a hand!!!MM 211Smith Tru Lite O/A set, Thanks Bob!Lincoln AC-225--But you must not change one thing, one pebble, one grain of sand, until you know what good and evil will follow on that act. The world is in balance, in Equilibrium- Ursula K. Le Guin
Reply:@equilibrium Thanks! I've heard it said many times that getting an arc started is one of the harder aspects of stick welding but once you finally get it it sticks with you (no pun intended). The best thing I can do is keep on trying. I'm sure whatever I'm doing wrong is something simple that once I figure it out it'll just click. I will add that I'm from Vermont the next time I get access to a computer. I've been posting from my cellphone. Willie B said he might be able to help me which I greatly appreciate but he's a busy man so in the mean time I'm just going to keep on practicing.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Originally Posted by lighttekku@equilibrium Thanks! I've heard it said many times that getting an arc started is one of the harder aspects of stick welding but once you finally get it it sticks with you (no pun intended). The best thing I can do is keep on trying. I'm sure whatever I'm doing wrong is something simple that once I figure it out it'll just click. I will add that I'm from Vermont the next time I get access to a computer. I've been posting from my cellphone. Willie B said he might be able to help me which I greatly appreciate but he's a busy man so in the mean time I'm just going to keep on practicing.
Reply:I disagree with the notion of AC being difficult to learn. If it were I would have never learned. I'll admit I moved on to DC without mastering vertical, or overhead. In my youth, the old guys were giving hearsay information, I knew no one able or willing to teach. I knew real welders, but they were too busy, or unwilling, or they were factory welders. Any process but stick was unheard of locally.I spent a lot of time turning work to place it in position. I used a timber in the garage and come along, or tree and block and tackle.
Reply:@Firemanmike69 Yeah I've heard that too but unfortunately it's all I've got access to at this point and I'm determined to get it to work. I know I'll get it, I just need more practice.I live in the Rutland areaCraftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:First thing I would recommend is to lay your rods out and run a torch over them and make sure there is no moisture in the flux. That can make a rod difficult to run, especially while trying to learn. Next I would turn the amperage all the way up. What I do when I strike an arc is I sweep the rod across the steel and lift about a.  1/4" just as the rod makes contact and hold in that spot to let the puddle form. It helps to use 2 hands. One holding the stinger and the other about the middle of the electrode. I'm not trying to make it sound easy, it just takes lots of practice.  I've been practicing over 20 years and I still use 2 hands from time to time and stick rods. Last, after you get the arc started run a small weld and stop. Strike another arc run a small weld and stop. Do this a few times to get the feel of it then start turning the amperage down on your welder. (Not while welding) Maybe 5 amps at a time then strike another arc.you will know when you get to low becase the rod will stick and you will be right back to where you started. At that point bump the amps up a little.Last, I would recommend you find some thicker steel to weld on. 1/8" min. Trying to learn on anything thinner will give you a lot of frustration. Anyways, just my 2cents. Good luck!
Reply:@Burnt Glove What thickness of metal would you recommend for a 90 amp welder?Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:10 or 11 gauge, 1/8". Maybe yours is different, mine is prone to burn through on very thin steel.At perhaps age 17 I attended a "clinic" to learn stick welding. It was at a local farm supply. Maybe twenty local men were in attendance. I was the only one who had never held a stinger in hand before. It was nothing more than a BS sales pitch for Twentieth Century welders. He used me as a guinea pig to demonstrate how easy it is to learn. He, and I, with him giving instructions, welded anything from 16 gauge to 1" hot rolled with a basic AC machine. I bought one, it was very different for me. I, and about 19 others who bought welders that night have always wondered if his machine had features the ones he sold lacked.  It is a good machine, but nothing like his.
Reply:AC ? DC is all the same. Right rod for the job helps. You really have everything going against you. A low amp stick machine on light metal is tough for a beginner. Try heavier steel like mentioned and crank machine up. You need to learn to get arc started and then weld with proper heat. New to welding, unstable hand, small rod is difficult. You could try positioning the rod have way down its length instead of cutting. Just twist to get the coating off. Try to position both elbows on table and grab stinger with both hands. You need to keep your arms resting somehow on something solid to stabilize the rod. One hand welding , arm elevated above table , and trying to weld is tough for a beginner. Hopefully there is a member near you that could give you a lesson. One in person lesson will make a difference. Try not to get too frustrated.
Reply:I bough a Campbell Hausfeld AC only 110 welder on clearance. It is nearly useless but I  too was determined to make it join metal. Here is what I did.5/64  6013 rod was the only thing that would run.Preheat the rod by scratching it on the metal near where you want to start.When you finally get it to light you must get in close to the puddle or the arc will go out.Make sure you stay ahead of the molten pool or 6013 will trap slag and make a broken weld.Must have extreme attention to arc length keeping it less than 1/8 from the pool.The good side.  If you can learn to weld with something like this you will be astonished when you run a good machine.millermatic 130XPharbour freight 180 amp mig with added caps.hobart stickmate ac/dcpowerarc 200
Reply:@Willie B and @BD1 alright I'll get some heavier metal today and see what I can do. Its tough not to get frustrated but I know that with enough practice I'll get it. My welding "table" is an old car rim. I'll try using some wood blocks to rest my elbow on and see if that helps.  Will also try the two handed method as you suggested.@weldinghomer alright, I got some better rods from my lws for half the price of any other store in the area so I'm hoping that it will help. They are the biggest rods my machine is capable of handling. I will take your suggestions and other people's and give it a shot to see what I can do.Yeah I've heard that if you can weld with a cheap welder you can weld with anything better. Some thing to look forward to!Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Get a old ironing board or table saw cheap on cragis list. I found a craftsman table saw with a bad motor for $10.00 for a buddy . It really works well for him. That better be a RIM ONLY and no inflated tire on it right ???  If it does have a inflated tire you will not be posting for long !   Just want to make sure.
Reply:@BD1 No tire. I'm smarter then that. Well not a lot smarter, but a little bit Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:For today's progress please check outhttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=442571Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder