Replacing tongue on tandem axle boat trailer

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I received a phone call last week to look at a large boat trailer that was showing signs of rust.  I took a look at the trailer on Saturday, and I want to ask the opinion of those who have worked on similar trailers before.  I have pictures but will have to wait to upload them until this evening.The trailer is a tandem axle with the primary frame constructed of 6"x2" rectangular tube, 10 or 11 gage wall thickness.  The tongue is an A frame style, formed from the main tubes bent to a point where they are welded to a coupler receiver tube.  The coupler and brake mechanism slide into this receiver at the nose of the trailer and are pinned in place.The trailer has seen salt water, was parked near the coast in Florida for some amount of time,  and has also sat idle for at least 2 years in Ohio.The underside of the primary tubular rails are showing a few rust holes, as well as the inner sides of the 6x2" tubes.  there are signs of previous scab plate repairs to the trailer. Sticking a finger inside some of the holes, I found a thick layer of loose, flaky rust on the bottom of the tubes. The owner was hoping that I could simply add some reinforcing plates to cover the rust holes; but I've convinced him to at least consider replacing at least the entire A frame portion of the trailer tongue. The trailer is going up for sale, and the owner doesn't want to sell someone else a bundle of trouble.  But he also doesn't want to pay for a whole new trailer...I'll quote the work as cutting off the tongue where the frame rails are still straight and parallel, replacing everything forward with new steel.My question is this, what are the chances that severe corrosion is localized to just the areas where there are holes and blistering paint?  Is the tongue subjected to more "wear" due to road spray?  Will I find that when I cut off the trailer tongue, the whole tubular frame is heavily corroded throughout the whole inside?  I'm worried that I'll find that the whole trailer frame has thin walls and that there won't be any sound material to rebuild the tongue from?Is the whole trailer likely to be scrap?  Any easy, non-destructive way to assess the wall thickness of the trailer frame?  Or could I drill small holes on the underside of the frame rails going back until I find tube with reasonable wall thickness?Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Well I'm not a expert on boat trailers especially salt water ones.  However from the sounds of it I can't imagine the rust not going back down the whole frame of the trailer. I suspect the rust spots you're seeing are from paint getting chipped at the tongue and working it's way through from both directions.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:IMHOTUBING SUCKS FOR ANYTHING ON THE ROAD WHICH IS SUBJECT TO MOISTURE AND CORROSIVE SALT ETC.All trailers should be made out of "open" shapes.  Angle, channel, beams!!!  You need open shapes to allow the moisture to evaporate, and the crud to wash off with time.Case on Point In a perfect world the joints are sealed waterproof when welded, but I've seldom seen real world tubing that's truly sealed"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Anyhow, if the interior of your hitch a-frame is corroded, likely you'll just blow thru the metal when trying to patch it.  It's probably done for"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Being from Washington I've seen a lot of rusty boat trailers. The frames of these trailers are flat, not contoured like a car frame. This allows the moisture to move along the whole frame instead of just sitting in the low spots. The result is, in my experience, if you have cancer in one spot then the whole trailer is compromised. My advice to you is to replace the entire frame only saving what hardware, brackets, axles, etc that you KNOW are good. He is selling it so liability could fall directly on your head.My advice to the owner would be to sell the trailer "as is" as a title and axle. After all the expense of repair he will probably make about the same amount of money anyway.
Reply:IMO, the only trailer to use in salt water applications is one made from galvanized channel.  I'm about 60 miles from the gulf of mexico and most that I see here are made from that.  In fact, even though I never go to salt water, I prefer galvanized channel and that's what I have on my PWC trailer.  Water and metal just don't play well together.  And like others have already said, I'd suspect the entire frame is compromised.
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doThe trailer has seen salt water, was parked near the coast in Florida for some amount of time,  and has also sat idle for at least 2 years in Ohio.........My question is this, what are the chances that severe corrosion is localized to just the areas where there are holes and blistering paint?  Is the tongue subjected to more "wear" due to road spray?  Will I find that when I cut off the trailer tongue, the whole tubular frame is heavily corroded throughout the whole inside?  I'm worried that I'll find that the whole trailer frame has thin walls and that there won't be any sound material to rebuild the tongue from?
Reply:farmersamm,  the trailer isn't quite as far gone as your photos, but the owner knocked a hole on the inside wall of one tube with a hammer.Shiftace, bassboy1, that's the kind of advice I was seeking.  Thanks. I don't see any signs this trailer was hot dip galvanized.  It was painted.  The primer coat is good, except where the rust cancer has eaten its way from the inside out.  The white top coat is peeling badly in multiple locations.I was thinking that maybe the front is rotting faster than the rear because maybe the trailer spent some time parked nose downward, allowing water to pool at the front end of the frame tubes.  The back ends of the tubes are open, for wiring and air.Thanks for confirming what I was thinking.  Unless someone comes up with good miraculous explanation for why the whole frame isn't rotten, I think I'll go back and have a talk with the owner about forgoing the repairs...Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:+9 on what has been said.Entire frame is pretty much suspect at this point.  If there is rust/rot in one section of the tube, there are most likely other section(s) rusted/rotted as well.Multiple 'pinholes' and rust scabs/blisters that go through the bottom of the frame, as well as multiple previous 'scab' plates to try and cover those multiple 'pinholes' say to me that the frame tubing has enough internal rust to be considered scrap at this time.  Short of you/he going through and doing a much more thorough inspection/evaluation of the entire frame.Take hammer and punch/chisel or an air hammer and go all along the bottom of all the frame tubing.  If the punch/chisel goes through, you found rot.Does the guy want to pay you for labor time to go through the entire trailer frame though?Dip-n-dunk in salt water is tough on tube frames.  And once one hole forms in the tube, that just lets even more salt water into the tubing where it then dries and leaves a salt layer inside the tubing.And the inside of the tubing is almost never painted or protected, is it.Hot-dipped galvanized, inside and out, is really the way to go to try and slow down salt water corrosion.Or better yet, an open channel shape that is hot-dipped galvanized.As for non-destructive inspection methods, I think the 'hammer' method (manual or preferred air hammer) is about as close as you could get.  Not really non-destructive though.Hmmm, set a wire-feed welder with short-circuit GMAW mode and run a bead down the entire underside of the trailer, based on parameters for say 14 gauge?  You have to strip (chemical or grinder/wire-brush) the entire underside of the tube frame though.  If you blow a hole through the frame, you found a thin spot!  Or cut tongue off and give a little look-see inside the tube frame.  If the visual doesn't look good, scrap the frame.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Been there--test drilling, in and adjacent to structurally critical areas, then probing into the test holes can confirm what you already suspectif the owner insists and will pay for inspection.Blackbird
Reply:I would not sleep well working on a trailer like you described.  I would explain to the customer that is a hammer can knock a whole into the side of the frame it should be replaced!  You need to think liability.  It may be able to be scabbed but what do you have then?  NO SLEEP!Replacing the tubing with a good channel would be my choice and then he never would have to worry with it.  You already have axles, springs, rollers, etc.  that is the real cost the frame is cheap in comparison.
Reply:I found a really nice boat trailer at the scrap yard in the southern part of Alabama.  I thought what a deal why would anyone scrap such  a nice tandam axle  boat trailer.  After closer inspection the entire trailer from the tongue to the bumper( rect tubing) was eaten up from the inside out.   I cut the tongue off with a hand hack saw in just a minute or so because it was so rusted from the inside.   I wanted the hydraulic surge coupler.   I bought the axles and springs.  Cut them and beat the hangers off the frame in just  a few minutes.  It actually tore apart  The paint looked pretty good on the outside but it was practically rusted through everywhere.  I think the paint was holding the trailer together.  If I had not of seen it I would not have believed it.  That trailer was really dangerous if they had even pulled it to the scrap yard.  I figured they maybe hauled it in to theyard.   In my opinion that would be one welding job that I would pass on.   A lot of ambulance chasing going on now days.  richey
Reply:One good way to see inside small spaces are the small flexible inspection cameras that are readily available many places today. My buddy has one that can also be hooked up to a video camera to record what is seen. I wish mine had that function. My unit has two cables that will let me get down almost 5-6' inside walls and so on. I think my local rental center has units for rent as well.http://www.ridgid.com/tools/seesnake-micro.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWOne good way to see inside small spaces are the small flexible inspection cameras that are readily available many places today. My buddy has one that can also be hooked up to a video camera to record what is seen. I wish mine had that function. My unit has two cables that will let me get down almost 5-6' inside walls and so on. I think my local rental center has units for rent as well.http://www.ridgid.com/tools/seesnake-micro
Reply:Can you give the tubing the squeeze test with large channel locks ? Kinda like a exhaust system checking for softness.
Reply:I have fixed a few and generally find they are pretty much shot and it is indeed the paint holding it together.Any more I recommend keeping the Title/Axles and scrapping the rest.
Reply:I've done the same.  Just made new trailer for me out of the parts.I actually took a snowmobile trailer apart with a hammer.  Welds just failed.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.