Argon/CO2 vs. Straight CO2

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Hey Folks,If the answer to my question is buried somewhere in this great forum I just could not find it.  I did look and search,,,,,,,,I am now living in a small fishing/surfing town called San Juanico, Baja California.  It is approximately 900 miles south of the Mexican border.My issue is that it is very difficult to get an Argon/CO2 (75/25) mix of gas.  I can get all the CO2 I want, but he mix has to come from LaPaz.I only weld mild steel up to 1/4" with an old Lincoln PS-130.  Mostly for light duty items.  (See Photo's.)What are the negatives of using only CO2???Thanks for any advise...... Attached Images
Reply:I actually prefer using straight CO2.  Little more spatter, leaves some brown residue dust on the weld but other than that no drawbacks.  You actually get a little better penetration with straight CO2.  Its also much cheaper and lasts a lot longer.
Reply:Thanks for the reply..... that's good news!  When you say "a little more spatter" that is OK as long as it it less than what I get with "Flux-Core"..... (?)jThanks again.........
Reply:The other down side is because the bead is "hotter", it makes 100% CO2 a poor choice for thin metal like auto body work..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by BajaMikeThanks for the reply..... that's good news!  When you say "a little more spatter" that is OK as long as it it less than what I get with "Flux-Core"..... (?)jThanks again.........
Reply:Thanks guys!!!!   Got it.... at least I know that I have an alternative.....  Also, no worries about sheet metal... all I can do with it is make large black holes..... gotta learn how to do it....  eventually I'll sneak up on it.....
Reply:Originally Posted by Comp ChassisIf you havent already noticed, the valve is different on the CO2 tank.  You will either have to change the inlet on your regulator or get an adapter to go from the CO2 tank to the mix tank fitting on regulator.
Reply:I think you are missing the teflon washer for that adapter. I believe you should get one with your cylinder refill though..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI think you are missing the teflon washer for that adapter. I believe you should get one with your cylinder refill though.
Reply:Originally Posted by BajaMikeYes, I saw that missing... I thought it was an 'O' ring..... I'll bet it is in the bottom of the durn box of junk,,,,,,, fun.thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by WookieWeldingyou can get it when you get a fill they are normally free or under a $1
Reply:Someone correct me if wrong, but 1 pound of CO2 is equivalent 8.74 cubic feet of gas. So a small 20# cylinder of CO2 is equal to 174 cubic feet of gas. That is about 20 more CF than you get with an "S" sized high pressure cylinder (the largest typically available for private sale). Food for thought when you consider the price difference between whatever you choose. That said, I use 75/25 for myself...www.triarc.us
Reply:So,,, If Montana Jack's post above is correct and the only real negatives are:Cooks a little hotter.Not good for body work.A little more splatter vs Argon mix.Well, I will not be doing any light sheet metal work, could always use a little hotter weld as my old SP-130 is tired, more gas in same size bottle, cheaper and easier to get down here....  I might just try it.You guys are awsome.............. Thanks
Reply:Montana Jack........ Nice web-sight.....  Getting cold up there now, hun??
Reply:Originally Posted by BajaMikeSo,,, If Montana Jack's post above is correct and the only real negatives are:Cooks a little hotter.Not good for body work.A little more splatter vs Argon mix.Well, I will not be doing any light sheet metal work, could always use a little hotter weld as my old SP-130 is tired, more gas in same size bottle, cheaper and easier to get down here....  I might just try it.You guys are awsome.............. Thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by Montana JackSomeone correct me if wrong, but 1 pound of CO2 is equivalent 8.74 cubic feet of gas. So a small 20# cylinder of CO2 is equal to 174 cubic feet of gas. That is about 20 more CF than you get with an "S" sized high pressure cylinder (the largest typically available for private sale). Food for thought when you consider the price difference between whatever you choose. That said, I use 75/25 for myself...
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Get the co2You won't regret it
Reply:Originally Posted by BajaMikeMontana Jack........ Nice web-sight.....  Getting cold up there now, hun??
Reply:If they have draft beer in your town, you should be able to get CO2 pretty easyExperience is something you get right after you need it
Reply:This is a pretty helpful video for choosing the right mixture. I understand that it's hard for you to get argon but it's pretty good info.
Reply:Originally Posted by Montana JackIt's chilly, but not unbearable. Plus 6 degrees right now...as long as we're on the positive side of the thermometer, it's a good day.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fred sIf they have draft beer in your town, you should be able to get CO2 pretty easy
Reply:Originally Posted by emeraldbisonThis is a pretty helpful video for choosing the right mixture. I understand that it's hard for you to get argon but it's pretty good info.
Reply:Originally Posted by BajaMikeMontana Jack,It's kinda chilly down here also.........  I might have to put on a sweat shirt.....  You guys use "sheeps" to keep warm up there, Huh???  (Had to do it.)If you need a break, we'll keep the "porch light on".....
Reply:Originally Posted by Montana JackTrade ya!Mike, check the local pop and beer distributor. You should be able to find CO2 unless you are so far our that they don't have draft beer or fountain soda.Edit: just seen that you have only cans in your area. From the pics, it looks worth it to me. Man if I could just convince my wife to move somewhere like that. If you are in to welding, I would suggest get some big tanks that would last a very long time since its one thing you cant mail order.Last edited by mikeb9550; 01-03-2013 at 04:19 PM.Hobart Handler 210 with SpoolgunHypertherm PM30 PlasmaHTP 221 Tig WelderHF BandsawHF Auto Dark Helmet
Reply:Co2 has ruined many projects for me, espescially on anything involving screw threads, or any light gauge steel projects where having to chisel off little doodie balls mars it all up. Even with the machine properly tuned it will always throw out some buckshot when you first light up. Only a suggestion because I don't like to tell people how to spend there money, but I would try both and make your own decision on what out weighs the hassle for you. In a pinch you know you could always grab co2 to get you through a job. I use co2 at work all day long, but my personal machines I run 75/25. Give em both a shot and see what you think works better for your applications. Go sit in traffic for a change like the rest of us idiots! LOL i'm only kiddin with ya there bud! I'm jealous, nice place bud! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Both Mikes,Good comments from you guys.... I'm gonna try a few test welds using both the mix and CO2..... then decide.Kinda like the idea of a bottle of both... the Mix for "my" good projects and the CO2 for the lobster traps and panga boat trailers, etc......YA HOOOOOO........!!(Looks like Chicken for dinner again tonight.) Attached Images
Reply:you could also just run straight FLUX CoreMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Originally Posted by WookieWeldingyou could also just run straight FLUX Core
Reply:After you try both will be interesting to see what you think.  Having used both I didnt notice enough of a reduction in spatter with mix gas to warrant the added expense.  The only time I used it was when I was working on car body panels.
Reply:Originally Posted by Comp ChassisAfter you try both will be interesting to see what you think.  Having used both I didnt notice enough of a reduction in spatter with mix gas to warrant the added expense.  The only time I used it was when I was working on car body panels.
Reply:I'd love to see what you do for lobster traps..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI'd love to see what you do for lobster traps.
Reply:I love a place where the beer is cheaper than the sodaSpent 10 days  just north of Loreto back in 2000Drove down with a group of friendsAnyhooI use co2 with my mm211 and used it with my135 plus when I had that You'll be in heaven after the flux core Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:I love a place where the beer is cheaper than the sodaSpent 10 days  just north of Loreto back in 2000Drove down with a group of friendsAnyhooI use co2 with my mm211 and used it with my135 plus when I had that You'll be in heaven after the flux core Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Finally got my first Argon/Co2 bottle.... man,,, it is nice to use.Although, I think the price down here is outrageous..... It is about 250 cubic feet and is 2,000psi.  The cost for the mix was $1,600 pesos or $129 US dollars.....??  I about passed out and my wife just said "well, baby, you need it"..... (sweet, maybe I should ask her about a new Tundra....)What is an average cost for it up there???The same bottle of straight Co2 is $600 pesos or $47.00 US dollars...... Hummm......I think that my refill will be Co2..... What do you guys think?  Being a novice welder the Co2 might be just "fine"......Can I ask that the bottle be filled to 3,000psi???  Thanks Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by BajaMikeCan I ask that the bottle be filled to 3,000psi???  Thanks
Reply:Co2 is in liquid form in the bottle so trying to compare pressure to a mixed gas bottle doesn't mean anything.  Also since co2 is in liquid form 2in of the same size bottles the co2 will actually hold far more cubic feet of gas
Reply:DSW & Comp Chassis,This is such a great place to tap into this wealth of knowledge...... And not get hammered 'cause of asking an "easy" question...... Great answer on the "psi" DSW.  Makes sense and kinda what I was thinking, but thought I'd ask.Comp Chassis after I burn holes is a bunch of metal with this "mix" I'm going to try a bottle of Co2.....Thanks guys!!  I just might make it up this learning curve or at least to a point on it that I'm comfortable with........
Reply:I have a related question.  Probably for DSW.I picked up that same size bottle of straight CO2 at Phx Welding for $30 and it was sold as a 50LB bottle.  Seems like I just got it, but the invoice says Nov 12!  Time flies.Just hooked it up to a (new old stock) Airco flowmeter and the tank guage says about 650 PSI.    Is that correct for a fresh bottle?  Or do I have a leak?  Valve was as tight as I could turn it back when I unloaded, and still is.Last edited by Fabn4Fun; 01-10-2013 at 11:36 PM.
Reply:What was the temperature when you checked the bottle pressure?  Its been awhile but my recollection is co2 bottles are usually around 1500 to 1800 during the summer when completely full.  I just went out and checked my little 20lb bottle on my welder, it has had some welding time on it, but not alot and its around 50 degrees in the garage.  Bottle pressure is right at 600 to 650 right now.
Reply:Co2 is checked by Weight not pressureMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Originally Posted by Comp ChassisWhat was the temperature when you checked the bottle pressure?
Reply:Mike - your avatar looks like something I remember from my childhood in the 50's!  Is that "Reddy Kilowatt" ?
Reply:How do you set the flow rate if you use a beverage CO2 setup with 2 gauges like in post # 22 by bajamike?
Reply:Originally Posted by trukkerHow do you set the flow rate if you use a beverage CO2 setup with 2 gauges like in post # 22 by bajamike?
Reply:The problem is that on a Co2 gauge setup for soda or in my case beer.  The gauges are both PSI.  One for the Co2 tank and one for the keg.  One person said they use 20 psi to get good results.  I have not tried that yet.  Possibly 20 psi is a starting point to be fine tuned for your situation.  Just looking for someone who has had success and how.  Using a soda / keg co2 setup may be an inexpensive option to run gas for some or a backup when your primary tank goes empty at a bad time.
Reply:Originally Posted by trukkerThe problem is that on a Co2 gauge setup for soda or in my case beer.  The gauges are both PSI.  One for the Co2 tank and one for the keg.  One person said they use 20 psi to get good results.  I have not tried that yet.  Possibly 20 psi is a starting point to be fine tuned for your situation.  Just looking for someone who has had success and how.  Using a soda / keg co2 setup may be an inexpensive option to run gas for some or a backup when your primary tank goes empty at a bad time.
Reply:Alot of the entry level welders only came with the 2 pressure guage regulators.  Mine is set at 18 right now, but was probably 20 before it got so cold here.  Pick a starting point and just keep turning it down until you have problems, then go back up 2 or 3 psi.