Taking a machine shop class.. Anything I should ask to learn?

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Background: When I wanted to start welding I took a welding class at the local Vocational/Tech School and told the instructor I wanted to learn stick in all positions and learn about the rods etc. I also wanted to get a little Mig time in and then TIG some alumn, Also wanted to learn Oxy/Ac so I could run a torch(Probably the most valuable part of the class).  Welp this worked out great because I had an agenda. (I didn't want a certificate or diploma as I already have a job in a different industry, this was just for fun.) Well now I've decided to take a Machine shop class there as well.  I'm really hoping to learn the horizontal bandsaw(most affordable tool for my home shop) and then the mill and the lathe.  I hope to dabble in CNC some but I really want to learn the manual stuff.  So my question is there anything I should focus more time on?  This is only for hobby and not for work and my access to tools is what I can buy for my home shop.  I do alot of 4x4 fabrication now using plasma, torch, drillpress and welder. Thanks for any suggestions you have.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jeep07Background: When I wanted to start welding I took a welding class at the local Vocational/Tech School and told the instructor I wanted to learn stick in all positions and learn about the rods etc. I also wanted to get a little Mig time in and then TIG some alumn, Also wanted to learn Oxy/Ac so I could run a torch(Probably the most valuable part of the class).  Welp this worked out great because I had an agenda. (I didn't want a certificate or diploma as I already have a job in a different industry, this was just for fun.) Well now I've decided to take a Machine shop class there as well.  I'm really hoping to learn the horizontal bandsaw(most affordable tool for my home shop) and then the mill and the lathe.  I hope to dabble in CNC some but I really want to learn the manual stuff.  So my question is there anything I should focus more time on?  This is only for hobby and not for work and my access to tools is what I can buy for my home shop.  I do alot of 4x4 fabrication now using plasma, torch, drillpress and welder. Thanks for any suggestions you have.
Reply:Get into lathe work..You can basically make anything round or threaded to your hearts desire after that..There are 2 kinds of machinists out there..Machinist #1 likes the piece to be staitonary and the tool/cutter do all the moving..Nothing wrong with that..Machinist #2 likes the piece to move and the tool/cutter stationary...Nothing wrong with that either..I'm more of the #2 machinist..Thats why I'm so damn good at lathes..I can run a Bridgeport with the best of them also but I prefer Lathes..Start with the Lathes..Then go to milling......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:they all start manual on the lathe and then man milling. then move into computerized mill and lathes. the first we did was make a screw plate then cut our own tooling for a chisel and then a spring center.Jeep, ask them to show you a ZAP move. take a bent shaft and chuck it up, then heat it up just enough to pull it back straight. search ZAPS old post from like a year ago and there it is."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:when ya get to the cnc stage be sure to actualy learn how to program.Cad/Cam programs are nice and definetaly have their place in a modern shop but one thing they all share is they tend to be terribly inefficient when it comes to tool paths.A good understanding of G and M codes will allow you to cut machine time drasticaly.sometimes as much as 50 percent or more!You'll also be way ahead of the curve in most shops because sadly most shops that utilize mainly cnc eguipment tend to have a couple programmers in an office and a lot of "machinists"machine tender's that only do setup hit the run button and check occasionaly for tool tolerances.A good solid understanding and ability on manual machines will turn you into the local "McQyver".Like Gnm109 stated learn to grind your own toolbits and how to hand sharpen(or make from scratch)your drillbitsSeveral ancient but good books on old time time machine tooling and techniques are availible at www.lindsaybks.com as well as set of books called the machinist's bedside companion that should be availible on amazon.com or barnes and nobleP.S. Be sure to pick up a good calculator with trig functions and know how to use it ALONG with a good paper bound trig table......You dont have to be a math genius but the ability to figure out triangles will have you  working on projects and peices that will leave many standing there scratching their head.Good luckLast edited by ridgerunner; 09-10-2007 at 10:38 PM.
Reply:Hey Jeep07,I would say Zap & gnm109 have given you the best suggestions to start learning the machining arena. The lathe would be the primary machine to learn first, and along with that, learning how to grind cutters and every other type of cutting tool. I have the South Bend book gnm109 mentions as the "old timer" I bought the lathe & other tooling from gave it to me. My South Bend lathe was made in 1939 and today it has no more runout than .0005......V-WAYS!!!!!! The best. Being a retired Master Gunsmith, that 'ol lathe chambered, threaded, & turned over 1000 rifle & pistol barrels. I even had a milling attachment for the tool post to do some light milling when needed prior to getting a milling machine. You will be quite surprised what you can do with a lathe. Even today, I will MIG special tubular parts together on the lathe to maintain concentricity & then turn the OD to finish dimension. I have also silver soldered & brazed parts chucked in the lathe. I'm kinda Machinist #2, but #1 really tight also. I love both machines. The 1st photo is my '39 S/B, and the 2nd photo is the newer bench mill I got after selling my Bridgeport with my gunsmithing tooling when I retired. GO FOR THE LATHE 1ST!!!!! Good luck & learn, practice, learn, practice, learn, practice.......Denny Attached ImagesComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey Jeep07,I would say Zap & gnm109 have given you the best suggestions to start learning the machining arena. The lathe would be the primary machine to learn first, and along with that, learning how to grind cutters and every other type of cutting tool. I have the South Bend book gnm109 mentions as the "old timer" I bought the lathe & other tooling from gave it to me. My South Bend lathe was made in 1939 and today it has no more runout than .0005......V-WAYS!!!!!! The best. Being a retired Master Gunsmith, that 'ol lathe chambered, threaded, & turned over 1000 rifle & pistol barrels. I even had a milling attachment for the tool post to do some light milling when needed prior to getting a milling machine. You will be quite surprised what you can do with a lathe. Even today, I will MIG special tubular parts together on the lathe to maintain concentricity & then turn the OD to finish dimension. I have also silver soldered & brazed parts chucked in the lathe. I'm kinda Machinist #2, but #1 really tight also. I love both machines. The 1st photo is my '39 S/B, and the 2nd photo is the newer bench mill I got after selling my Bridgeport with my gunsmithing tooling when I retired. GO FOR THE LATHE 1ST!!!!! Good luck & learn, practice, learn, practice, learn, practice.......Denny
Reply:Well I am gonna vary from the others.   I would recommend learning to read most EVERY type of measuring tool you can get your hands on.  Without being able to measure it correctly nothing else matters...I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:If you are taking this class for personal satisfaction only I think there has been some great advise given.  Lathe tools are an invaluable skill since you will be able to make what you need from what you have. I wish I was better at making them.     I am learning welding for personal satisfaction/projects only.  I spend every day programming and overseeing CNC milling equipment.  To Zap I am a type #1.  Only I don't even have the patients to turn cranks.  If it doesn't have at least 14,000 rpm and 25 or more HP I start to fall asleep As an aside, if they dabble in CNC, you'll have fun, learn what it's all about, and make something that would really suck to make turning cranks.  You will not "learn" G-Code programming, or CNC machines in an intro type class... you will learn about them. Originally Posted by ridgerunnerwhen ya get to the cnc stage be sure to actualy learn how to program.Cad/Cam programs are nice and definetaly have their place in a modern shop but one thing they all share is they tend to be terribly inefficient when it comes to tool paths.
Reply:Very cool lathe yorkie, those old machines are like works of art.
Reply:Thanks for the advice guys. I started class last week. (2 nights a week)They have 1 intro project that gets you to the lathe.  I'm basically building a tool holder which requires the bandsaw/Mill and drill press.  So after I build that I get to use it on my lathe learning experience.I will say machine work is slow.  I like a torch and welder because they get you results quick .  However I think the class will be worth it.  I just need some basics for my home shop.
Reply:Hey Jeep07,Glad to see you're getting started in the machining arena. You have received great responses that will give you some insight into the expansion of your knowledge base to make you even a better welder. You will be so much more adept being able to not only weld metal, but to make most any configuration of metal you may need on occasion. In addition, being able to fabricate metal will enhance your earning power as many things are no longer available today that were manufactured over 10 years ago.Hammock-Welding made a point I will definitely reinforce.......MEASUREMENTS. If you learn the measuring systems/tools, you will be precise with all you create & weld. Measuring tools are an investment in your quality and workmanship. Learn the fractional, decimal, metric, analog & digital measuring systems and you will be able to meet any challenge. Machining cannot be done without measurements. Yes, learning the techniques & parameters of machining is slower than welding to a point. It also takes time to learn all the different methods of welding....Good luck....keep us informed on your progress.....DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:If you learn how to use OLD SCHOOL mics and other measuring tools you will be gold.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Here is a guy you can ask. http://www.myspace.com/shopteach  He is the current Voc shop teacher in my town and builds rock crawler jeeps, maybe you 2 can hit it off. I took the class 30 years ago...BobBob WrightSalem, Ohio  Birthplace of the Silver & Deming Drillhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbend10k/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sawking/1999 Miller MM185 w/ Miller 185 Spoolmate spoolgun
Reply:I started with turning metal.  The best thing you could do for yourself is learn how to read micrometers, calipers, indicators and all the measuring tools. If you can't understand those things, the rest is pretty moot. I have seen many a fellow that didn't center a lathe tool before they started making chips. They end up with a real mess. Learning how to grind your own lather tools will take you far. There will be almost no profile you can't turn if you grind your own.  Lathes are the cat's meow. But you can build a lathe with a mill, you can't build a mill with a lathe. Okay, yes there are miling attachments for lathes, but it just isn't he same.  Get the basics down before jumping into the sexy stuff.And if your instructor doesn't start you right out with mill tramming and how to level and center the lathe, jump him right there.
Reply:Originally Posted by jportaleAnd if your instructor doesn't start you right out with mill tramming and how to level and center the lathe, jump him right there.