Which equipment for a bike chassis

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Hi I'm new here.  I'm looking at getting an entry level welder for my cafe racer project (making a jig and frame, and an aluminum tank if possible).  I don't have 220V in my shop yet.I've seen many 110V MIGs on craigslist.  Amazon has some basic inverter arc machines that offer a TIG option.  Or I could get an OA kit and look into brazing or gas welding. I don't mind investing the practice time, I just want to keep the tool investment reasonable (like $200-400).Another option is to tack it all together and haul it to a pro to finish.  Probably do that for the steering neck weld anyway.So what processes and what equipment specs should I be looking into for this project? Thanks in advance.
Reply:Start with these books ONLY! than consider your equipment.Motorcycle Handling and Chassis Designhttp://www.tonyfoale.com/You have to look for the bottom 2 they can be found for reasonable prices "$100" but you will mostly see outrageous pricing "$800". http://www.broadlandleisure.com/The Racing Motorcycle: A Technical Guide for Constructors, Volume 1  "do you like math formulas?"http://www.abebooks.com/products/isbn/0951292927The Racing Motorcycle: A Technical Guide for Constructors: Vol 2 John Bradley "More materials and equipment probably the book you want most for figuring out your equipment hardest to find "Last edited by nikodell; 01-27-2013 at 06:17 PM.
Reply:You need to do some more reading.  What you want is unrealistic.Red flags...FrameAluminum tankNo 220Seen 110 migs on craigslist and entry level tigs on Amazon$200-$400 budget   Try adding another zero.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by Boostinjdm$200-$400 budget   Try adding another zero.
Reply:The responders to your question where trying to be nice but then I knew you were just joking, rite seinfeld?
Reply:InsanerideIronically, thee Seinfeld's, drug of choice are Porsche's.His pill collection is large enough to drive a different'iconic/great', any day of the month.This Seinfeld is from the kiddy-bike budget side ofthe family.Opus
Reply:Thanks for the replies.  I already have the Foale book and  I have the first Bradley book on order.Maybe I wasn't clear... 200-400 for a used welder.  That doesn't include other tools or consumables.  And this is a one-off shed bike.  Not production.  No way I'd sink 2K on a welder for just one project.  Much easier to just tack everything with a Harbor Freight special and then haul it to a pro to finish.So are you saying the used SP135's are not worth looking into?  What say you about an oxy setup and brazing?
Reply:You might want to consider having a professional weld it.  Doesn't sound like you're too experienced and a motorcycle frame probably isn't the place to learn.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmYou need to do some more reading.  What you want is unrealistic.Red flags...FrameAluminum tankNo 220Seen 110 migs on craigslist and entry level tigs on Amazon$200-$400 budget   Try adding another zero.
Reply:The Racing Motorcycle: A Technical Guide for Constructors: Vol 2 John BradleyThis book covers the most on materials and equipment. Powells Books may be able to order a new copy for you I would give them a call.What exactly do you plan on building?  Motor, suspension, frame construction?
Reply:I agree with the others.  The minimum MIG I think is worth buying plus bottle, helmet, wire and stuff requires 220 and costs about $1000 new, maybe you could shave some off by going with Hobart or buying used, but only a couple hundred or so. Tube welding for bicycles and even aircraft can be done with oxy/acetylene, but the minimum torch setup I would recommend for that kind of work would total about $500, plus tank rental and the cost of gases, and learning to weld with it and deal with heat distortion issues on a project like yours will take way longer than with MIG.  To put that in perspective, a full-power MIG requires 3-phase and costs more like $2000+, a serious TIG setup at least $3000, and my deluxe o/a setup cost upwards of $1500.I just priced this out for students that might take welding lessons from me, and I think I scared one guy away.  Sorry folks.  Welding is a difficult skill that requires expensive equipment.  Try to shortcut skill acquisition on a practical project like this, and your project will be a safety hazard.  Skimp on equipment costs by buying inferior quality or beat-up used, and making the project becomes a safety hazard, and might even be impossible because the equipment can't do the job.Last edited by Draak; 01-28-2013 at 03:58 PM.
Reply:Get a helmet that covers your whole body! Certain projects you just don't dive into, listen to the guys, they know and are only looking out for your safety. I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:DraakYou covered that quite clearly,  Mig would be tough to use on the thin tube work but it is possible and done but not recommended.
Reply:I could see doing it with a MIG with stitch welds and slow wire speed.  I mentioned it because it seems like the cheapest, easiest electric option.  I suppose even one of those 110v toys could do it, since the tubes are so thin, but I would still never recommend buying one, because it will be too pathetically wimpy to use for almost anything else.
Reply:I have to agree with Draak about the 110v mig toys, not bad for the hobby welder that just needs it to attach some sheet metal to his racecar, but get into plate and it becomes useless and same goes for tube, my dad has one on the farm, says he hasn't had any luck with it and its a miller, ha ha ha
Reply:Ok what thickness would you say as far as mild steel tube would be the limit for let's say my miller matic 130 ? Because I have built a couple solid toys with it.Last edited by Steelwill; 01-28-2013 at 08:58 PM.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:I think if you adapt your designs and always use fairly thin material and well-fitted joints, those "toys" are definitely viable tools.  I don't know exactly what thickness is the limit, because I do pretty much everything with materials in that thickness/mass range with an oxy/acetylene torch, which for most applications gives me control similar to a TIG.  The limit is going to be found in the nooks and crannies of acute joints where the torch has to heat up the most material at the same time.  To me, what electric welders are good for is what my gas torch can't do very well, which is deal with thicker material, especially critical joints that need deep penetration.  The Millermatic 220v units that run on <30a can do most of the jobs I want them to, the 120v units can do almost nothing I want them to.Last edited by Draak; 01-28-2013 at 09:33 PM.
Reply:according to my app your miller should be capable of a max 14g wall but of course as all welders are different you might get away with as much as 3/16" but that I think might be pushing it on the penetration level of the weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by seinfeldThanks for the replies.  I already have the Foale book and  I have the first Bradley book on order.Maybe I wasn't clear... 200-400 for a used welder.  That doesn't include other tools or consumables.  And this is a one-off shed bike.  Not production.  No way I'd sink 2K on a welder for just one project.  Much easier to just tack everything with a Harbor Freight special and then haul it to a pro to finish.So are you saying the used SP135's are not worth looking into?  What say you about an oxy setup and brazing?
Reply:Sheesh you guys are determined to prevent me from winning a Darwin award Seriously though, thanks for the info.  I'm leaning toward just tacking everything with a cheap toy machine, and then haul it in the jig to a pro to finish.  I was going to do that for the neck anyway.What about the aluminum tank?  Anyone tried one with simple tools?  Can you use a brazing process?  Otherwise I'll have to do fiberglass.
Reply:Find your welder talk to them about prep, do some samples have them check them to make sure they are to their standards of prep work. Also I might have them weld them up so you see what you are getting in workmanship also. You could always post them here for review.Tig for aluminum tanks.Here is a good test run project.  http://www.caferacer.net/forum/proje...clip-bars.htmlLast edited by nikodell; 01-29-2013 at 03:16 PM.
Reply:I don't think you will find a "pro welder/chassis builder" to weld it after you put it togetherwww.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:you dont have to spend thousands. you can pick up used machines in great shape for a faction of that. however like the others have said, if you have to ask those questions you probably shouldn't start on a frame like that.pick yourself up a nice 220 single phase mig. capable of what you'll want it for.i have a miller 140 (110) and i admit its a great little machine. you can weld whatever you want with pre-heat, but who wants to go through that? but its extremely limited. i don't use it for anything over 1/8. spend the extra dough and get a few sizes up from that.also don't be afraid to research older machines. there is alot of great welding machines out there. some don't come with a "millermatic autoset" price tag either.. and will do just as much and more.Miller ab/p 330Hobart champ 16Miller 140Lincoln Power Mig 255Lincoln SA-250
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749These threads make my head hurt........
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749These threads make my head hurt........The only thing I would weld myself on my bike would be a steering dampner but Ive only done about 125 on 2 wheels At 70, I dont need no stinkin dampner, not on the street anyway. Unless you count the time I welded some handlebars to the headstock just for a ride but then it was only at 50 mph.BTW, dont be discouraged by the sarcastic replys, as Ive been flamed/roasted and toasted  here and only for asking advice about welding/repairing my hammer.
Reply:Let's see:"Entry level" welderNo 220V110V MIG soldering gunCafe racer frameAluminum gas tank$200-$400 budgetWHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?With those parameters, I think you're better off building lunar landers. At least you might not get hurt.Last edited by Kelvin; 01-30-2013 at 07:46 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Pretty nice to have Rousch Racing in your back yard
Reply:I'm pretty new to welding. Had some success but also a few nasty not so great looking pcs. I admire your enthusiasm and as a biker at heart relate with what you are doing. Its my dream to build a greaser harley ground up and have been on race tracks. I relate to it 100%. However, as someone that has been in the 145 mph range on a bike, my senses say my fabrication skill levels are not there yet, far below a comfort range. They will be in time with the right equipment and advice but still, not yet. You have lots of time. Test your skills. Take advice from others. Plan some projects. You will build alot of cool things before you feel confident to tackle this. I have built some very cool shop stuff. Wey organized.  Its all coming together. Don't rush it. Have some fun. Few beers. Tunes. Teach some friends the basics. You'll get there just give it time.Alan SimMillerMatic 211 MVPHypertherm Plasma CutterSpoolmate 100Stronghands Welding TableLots of plans, Eager to LearnBeer in ice boxStereo rockin'Hot neighbor!  Update...married her!