Millermatic 211 or Thermal arc fabricator 210?

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Hello all,I'm looking into purchasing my first welder (not technically my first but i only had the first for a week) and I have decided that i should just jump in feet first and buy the best welder i can possibly afford right now.I know i want it to be mig, over 200amp output, and I want it to be a good quality machine.  I have no brand loyalty and my decisions are usually based on 1. quality, and 2. value. in that order.In my several weeks of research i think I have narrowed it down to the proven millermatic 211 or the thermal arc 210, which I can't find a whole lot of information on, but the information I do find is nothing but good reviews and high praise.  I will be using the welder for fabrication of bumpers and roll cages for my jeep (after i am comfortable that I have gained the skill to do so of course) and pretty much anything else I decide to build after that.  I need a welder than can handle mostly 1/4, some 3/8 and possibly some 1/2 or larger on occasion.  I need good strong welds because my life will eventually depend on them.Things I have learned so far:The miller 211 has a proven track record.  seems everybody that has one can't sing enough praises.  30-210amp output, dual voltage input, compact and portable. but it is the most popular name brand and you pay for that.  roughly $1200 seems steep to me, but worth it if it is as good as everybody says it is.The thermal arc brand isn't as popular, but they have a great track record with plasma cutters and tig welders.  The few reviews i have found absolutely love the machine.  It is a full size welder, 20-250amp output, better duty cycle rating, which i will need when i am spending all day laying practice beads.. almost 200 pounds, but it has built in casters and bottle rack, which makes it just as portable (to me) as the miller as long as you have a place to plug it in.  it is stepped voltage adjusted, but it has 16 positions.. if you can't dial it in with 16 positions you probably shouldn't be welding. it has other features like burn back control, spot, dwell, and stitch timer.  comes with a 15 foot lead tweco gun. I can have one shipped to my door for $1250, which seems like a great deal for all the welder i would be getting.  I am leaning more towards the thermal arc, just because on paper it is the obvious better value, but i don't have enough real world info on how difficult it is to use, are the welds only good if you are a professional welder, or can an amateur lay down a decent bead as easily as they can with the miller 211?  As long winded as that was, thanks for reading and i appreciate any input.
Reply:Yer comparing two different class of machines.Compare the MM211 to the Fabricator 211iAnd the MM212 to the fabricator 210I would go with this and be ahead on money, over the fabricator 210http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...ct_47864_47864Check out reviews herehttp://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/forum.phpIf yer wanting dual voltage I would go with the Fabricator 211i, you get dc tig function as well.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Yer comparing two different class of machines.
Reply:My local supplier in wisconsin has the MILLER 211 for   $ 1025.00. I agree with your choice on the 211. It has awesome reviews  and you won't be disappointed. My supplier said that he hasn't sold a Miller 212 since the 211 has been out. lots of bang for the buck.
Reply:AhhI misread the 1250.00I thought that was for a MM211IOC is a good store to buy from Thermal arc is a brand name company but I don't have any experience with their Mug machines, I wouldn't have a problem buying the 210 though.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Cyberweld has the MM211 for $1,024.00. No tax and FREE SHIPPING.  http://store.cyberweld.com/mi211migw...FQhxQgodez4ATQI prefer Miller and Lincoln.   In fact, I use my MM211 for everything most of the time.  My Lincoln 216 sits covered in mothballs.   Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:You will be much happier with the extra power of a Thermal-arc 210. It won't have such a wimpy drive motor like the small compact toys.. Think of a 15 ft gun possibility, and enough power to spray-arc/ It will run a bit of the smaller dual-shield wires in 12 inch spools.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XYou will be much happier with the extra power of a Thermal-arc 210. It won't have such a wimpy drive motor like the small compact toys.. Think of a 15 ft gun possibility, and enough power to spray-arc/ It will run a bit of the smaller dual-shield wires in 12 inch spools.
Reply:Originally Posted by Kuri am somewhat familiar with what spray is, but i don't know anything about dual-sheild.. i am assuming that is some sort of flux cored wire?  what are the benefits and should it be something i want to use?
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XLets just saw it opens up many options on welding thicker material,and types. Out of position is easier in general. Just too many different types of wire to cover all the advantages. Lets say you had some SS dual-shield laying around, and only C-25 gas to use.. Guess what, it almost all works with that gas. Hard facing...You can find all that wire on E-bay for a song. Almost always in 12 inch rolls. Stick with .045 wire, and you will be fine. The 211 machine you are done before you start.. Most rolls won't fit, and just not enough guts to run well anyway..
Reply:Originally Posted by Kurwhoa, I'll be honest man, i only understood about half of what you said.. but please allow me to try to figure it out..you are saying if i had to weld stainless steel with dual core I could use 75/25 gas (as opposed to what?) and it would work?  don't know what hard facing means.. finding wire on ebay for a song.. i guess that means a good price?  and the miller 211 is too small and under powered for running the larger dual shield wire.. right?
Reply:You should also post where you're located.  Go to the user CP to input that.If you would consider used, there are a bunch of great machines out there to be had for a decent price.  Especially Millermatic 200's, which are old and very durable.  They are kind of mislabeled because the "200" is amperage at 60% duty cycle.  They have a 280 amp output, are tranny machines with very little electronics to go bad, but they are much larger than the 211.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255They are kind of mislabeled because the "200" is amperage at 60% duty cycle.  They have a 280 amp output
Reply:Originally Posted by Kurwhoa, I'll be honest man, i only understood about half of what you said.. but please allow me to try to figure it out..you are saying if i had to weld stainless steel with dual core I could use 75/25 gas (as opposed to what?) and it would work?  don't know what hard facing means.. finding wire on ebay for a song.. i guess that means a good price?  and the miller 211 is too small and under powered for running the larger dual shield wire.. right?
Reply:Originally Posted by papaharley03That's interesting. I probably passed on several deals because I wanted more than 200 amps if I get around to upgrading my MIG machine.Thanks for pointing that out,Papa
Reply:3/8", 1/2", and possibly thicker, most definitely go with the Fabricator 210 over the MM 211. The Fab 210 would give you significantly more top end power than the little MM 211.The little 211 isn't going to come close to matching up with the Fab 210 in the area of duty cycle either.The Fab 210 would definitely have no problem spraying an .030 or .035 wire with 98/2 oxyBased on the output numbers on the spec sheet, the Fab 210 has the potential to be a very good light ga sheet metal unitI like to look at units like my Hobart Handler 210 MVP and the MM 211, as being best suited for 1/4" and thinner mild steel.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:i shopped around for a used welder for almost a month, but everybody thinks their used welder is made of gold and price it as such.  and anytime i found an ad that was reasonably priced, it was sold just a few minutes before i called. so i decided to just get a new welder. I'll know it isn't going to be somebody elses abused headache, and I'll have whatever factory warranty.I've decided to get the thermal arc 210.  i think the miller 211 is an outstanding welder, but i feel that I'll regret not having more power later on.  thanks for all your input. I'll let you guys know how it works out!
Reply:the order is placed.  judging by how excited i am, waiting for this thing to arrive is going to be the longest week of my life!
Reply:Now that you have had it almost 2 years, how did the TA-210 work out for you?30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Hi, I have had my Thermal Arc 210 about 3 months now myself, they are fantastic welders. I have a Lincoln 180c and I was planning on keeping it for small gauge, but the thermal arc actually does a little better, I was surprised on that. The other day I took all the covers off the 210 just to look at build quality of the components, because I was thinking I might keep the 180c for a few years down the road if the thermal arc whimped out. Well I don't think that's gonna happen, they are top quality everything looks like to me,Thermal Arc 210 - Tweco 211I - Cutmaster 52
Reply:Originally Posted by mxpapaHi, I have had my Thermal Arc 210 about 3 months now myself, they are fantastic welders. I have a Lincoln 180c and I was planning on keeping it for small gauge, but the thermal arc actually does a little better, I was surprised on that. The other day I took all the covers off the 210 just to look at build quality of the components, because I was thinking I might keep the 180c for a few years down the road if the thermal arc whimped out. Well I don't think that's gonna happen, they are top quality everything looks like to me,
Reply:Hi, well I found mine on the old craigs list, Got it for one thousand, brand new, had been a floor model in a NAPA auto store, had a few scratches on the top where things had been sat on it.Thermal Arc 210 - Tweco 211I - Cutmaster 52
Reply:Great find!30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press