Swivel head bandsaws

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I'm looking at 5X6 bandsaws (Jet and Grizzly) and trying to determine what the advantage of the swivel head is over the regular bandsaw. Does it just allow you to swivel the head to make angled cuts instead of moving the workpiece or is there more to it than that? Looks like maybe they cut 45 degrees either way without having to flip the workpiece?Also, any other brands of saws I should be looking at? I would like to keep the price under $500 and be able to accurately cut 45 degree angles on pipe and square tube (chopsaw isn't quite good enough on pipe).HH 187Miller Bluestar1EAHP AlphaTig 200X
Reply:Yes, the head swivels for miter cuts.This is opposed to having to swivel the vise, and having the steel swing off thru your shop at some wierd angle.If you do a lot of miter cutting, this is handy. However, the swivel head saws cannot be used in vertical mode- the little 4x6 saws tilt up into vertical mode, then you sit down on em, and can freehand cut stuff. I probably do this on mine ten times a day.So losing that feature would be something I would not like.Grizzly has been selling this saw for a while- I have a friend who is a blacksmith who has had one for 3 or 4 years now, he likes it a lot.Like all 4x6 saws, these seem to be available in 3 price ranges- the Harbor Freight/ no name, the Grizzly, and then, the Jet. I think there is a small, but perceptible difference in quality between each step, but when you buy Grizzly or Jet, you are also paying more for name brand, parts availability, and downloadable manuals, stuff like that.None of these saws is a WHOLE LOT different from any other- they are all very cheap, for what they are, and will do a lot for the money.The next step up in a swivel head bandsaw is either an Ellis, made in the USA, or a Kama, made in Italy. Both start at around $2500, and rapidly head  towards $4000 to $5000. Then you get into the realm of real, production saws- things like Do-Alls, Dakes, Amada's and Kastenbergs- saws that can easily run $10,000 to $30,000.Nobody makes a $3000 saw and sells it for $500- there is this one design of small swivel head, made by a few different factories in China, with small differences between each one. The cheapo Harbor Freight ones will probably work ok, and need fiddling. The $600 Jet version of the same saw probably has a slightly better, UL motor, better bearings and hardware, and an 800 number for parts.You pays your money, you takes your chances.
Reply:I have the jet.  Swivel is quite convient.  You can use it vertically.  Just remove the pin from the hytraulic pump.  It is not as convient as the straight cutting saws.The quick release vice is really nice. The metal is held better by the vice, since both sides are fixed square.  The regular saws have one swivel jaw that can rock upward when tightened.The swivel head provides faster setup with a protractor on the saw.Building a saw stand won't be one of your first projects since the swivel head has a comes with a sturdy, stable stand.Good luck
Reply:Originally Posted by RiesYes, the head swivels for miter cuts.This is opposed to having to swivel the vise, and having the steel swing off thru your shop at some wierd angle.If you do a lot of miter cutting, this is handy. However, the swivel head saws cannot be used in vertical mode- the little 4x6 saws tilt up into vertical mode, then you sit down on em, and can freehand cut stuff. I probably do this on mine ten times a day.So losing that feature would be something I would not like.You pays your money, you takes your chances.
Reply:If you read my whole post, you would see that I was talking about this specific model of chinese swivel head- I mentioned the Ellis later on, as a whole nother step up in quality and price.http://grizzly.com/products/4-x-6-Me...vel-Head/G9742http://www.southern-tool.com/store/j...alBandSaw.htmlAnd yes, you can use them in the vertical mode, if you take em apart- but that  is much slower, and more complicated, than the little 4x6, which you just flip up and start to cut with.I have used Ellis saws before, and would rate them as an excellent horizontal miter cutoff saw, and a pretty crummy vertical saw. Yes, its technically possible. But they are damn hard to sit on, with all that stuff in the way.I think every shop should have a plain old 4x6, as a start, then get an Ellis, or an Amada, or a Kama, as a next step.The little 4x6 saws are just too handy and flexible. They will not do what an Ellis will do, cutting 6" square tube all day accurately. But they will cut little stuff, a hundred times a day, quick and easy, in ways that a bigger saw like an Ellis wont do as easily.
Reply:Originally Posted by RiesIf you read my whole post, you would see that I was talking about this specific model of chinese swivel head- I mentioned the Ellis later on, as a whole nother step up in quality and price.http://grizzly.com/products/4-x-6-Me...vel-Head/G9742http://www.southern-tool.com/store/j...alBandSaw.htmlAnd yes, you can use them in the vertical mode, if you take em apart- but that  is much slower, and more complicated, than the little 4x6, which you just flip up and start to cut with.I have used Ellis saws before, and would rate them as an excellent horizontal miter cutoff saw, and a pretty crummy vertical saw. Yes, its technically possible. But they are damn hard to sit on, with all that stuff in the way.I think every shop should have a plain old 4x6, as a start, then get an Ellis, or an Amada, or a Kama, as a next step.The little 4x6 saws are just too handy and flexible. They will not do what an Ellis will do, cutting 6" square tube all day accurately. But they will cut little stuff, a hundred times a day, quick and easy, in ways that a bigger saw like an Ellis wont do as easily.
Reply:I have a cold saw, an ironworker, 4 bandsaws, 2 plasma cutters, and a bunch of smaller cutting devices. And altogether, they cost well north of 20 grand. The right tool for the job has absolutely nothing to do with the price.The Ellis saw is an ok, midrange saw for production cutting. But having used one, I guarantee you that you will get more work done quicker in terms of fitup, custom curves, and detail fabrication work, with a cheapo chinese 4x6.When I need to cut multiple parts, all the same, I use a saw like an Ellis- although there are a lot of much better ones on the market, mostly either german or japanese.But an Ellis is a miserable saw for the kind of custom work I do daily. And if you aint never sat down to cut stuff with a bandsaw, your dogs must be barking I have 2 of the little 4x6 saws, and for lots of stuff, they just cant be beat. The small size and thickness of the blade means they do contour cutting well, and leave a small kerf, so they are quicker than a bigger, more ridgid blade, at mitering and notching freehand.They do not replace a bigger saw, like an Ellis. They do a different job.If you think the Ellis is so great, you have obviously never seen how a real industrial saw is built- the Ellis is a decent midrange fab shop saw, but they fall apart in real industrial usage.
Reply:Originally Posted by RiesI have a cold saw, an ironworker, 4 bandsaws, 2 plasma cutters, and a bunch of smaller cutting devices. And altogether, they cost well north of 20 grand. The right tool for the job has absolutely nothing to do with the price.The Ellis saw is an ok, midrange saw for production cutting. But having used one, I guarantee you that you will get more work done quicker in terms of fitup, custom curves, and detail fabrication work, with a cheapo chinese 4x6.When I need to cut multiple parts, all the same, I use a saw like an Ellis- although there are a lot of much better ones on the market, mostly either german or japanese.But an Ellis is a miserable saw for the kind of custom work I do daily. And if you aint never sat down to cut stuff with a bandsaw, your dogs must be barking I have 2 of the little 4x6 saws, and for lots of stuff, they just cant be beat. The small size and thickness of the blade means they do contour cutting well, and leave a small kerf, so they are quicker than a bigger, more ridgid blade, at mitering and notching freehand.They do not replace a bigger saw, like an Ellis. They do a different job.If you think the Ellis is so great, you have obviously never seen how a real industrial saw is built- the Ellis is a decent midrange fab shop saw, but they fall apart in real industrial usage.
Reply:This is a 4x6, but I like it:  http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=11176It can be used vertically.  Not bad for the money.America Needs AMERICA'S Oil!!!"Global warming is the greatest scam in history ...There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril."--John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel
Reply:For the price that Cummins saw looks like what I need. I don't need to do a lot of work, mainly just making gates and items like that for myself..... the gates made in the welding shops around here are are pretty poorly made. So, the saw will get a workout 2-3 times a month and then sit unused the rest of the time ($2500 saw would be a waste of money for me).HH 187Miller Bluestar1EAHP AlphaTig 200X
Reply:I just bought the swivel head 4x6 Grizzly a couple of weeks ago to do one job.  We are fabricating a winder stair rail with 9/16" square steel balusters and had to make about 300 cuts.  My boss paid for half the machine and I paid the other half.  I have made all of the cuts and was surprised at how well the saw worked for being a Grizzly. We have several of their machines and this one is probably the best one for being usable right out of the crate.  I normally have to spend quite a bit of time getting them dialed in.We bought 2 extra blades with the saw.  The blade that came with it was junk and lasted for about 6 cuts.  The next blade was a bi-metal 8-12 variable pitch and it had a very poor weld, it also did not last long.  The third blade was a bi-metal 10-14 VP and it made it through the entire job and is still cutting well.We bought 2 spares from the LWS thinking we would need them and have not had to use them.The saw did have a bad shake that I determined was from the v-belt.  I replaced it with an adjustable type belt and it smoothed out and runs great.Hope this helps,Reece
Reply:Everybody is different- and different tools work.I am not in the least trying to "peddle chinese crap".In my own shop, I have a lot of very expensive tools, and very little from China. But there are a LOT of guys on this site who think $500 is a lot for a saw, much less $2500 for an Ellis, and then another 6 to 10 grand for a Vertical Do-all.I have used Ellis Saws- and I dont think that much of em, for the type of fabrication I do. For me, a combination of tools, including a cheap (in my case, Taiwan made) 4x6 bandsaw, works better. I know, I am not the Worlds Greatest, and I dont have 6 trucks.But I have actually used the saw you recommend, and FOR THE WORK I DO, its not as good as a cheapo 4x6, in concert with a cold saw and an ironworker. Your shop, of course, could be completely different. We each have to make decisions about what machines, at what cost, will best do the job we need.But I assure you, I get very high quality results, on very expensive custom metalwork, which I sell all over the country, out of my funky $400 Jet bandsaw, and it would not be cut any differently if I used a $10,000 Do-All.Where I live, there are NO used machinery dealers less than a 7 hour drive away. Used Bandsaws are as rare as hens teeth. So I dont have a chance to pickup a Do-All for pennies on the dollar. I have used big Vertical Do-Alls before, and, they, too, would be slower, and cost me more money and time, than a simple 4x6, for a lot of the cutting I do. We constantly are mitering 3/8" round stainless to custom angles. This is not a good job for an Ellis, as it would require setting the angle every time. And it doesnt work very well on a standard 18" or 24" vertical- the table is just too big to easily miter the end of a 4" long piece of 3/8" round, cutting to a sharpie line. But a cheapo 4x6 saw does this quickly and easily.In 30 years, I have worn out two of these saws, and have two on the shop floor right now- and we use em daily, sometimes a hundred times a day. For jobs like that, which are my bread and butter, spending thousands more on fancy industrial saws would not only be a waste of money, it would not do the job as well. Different strokes, as they say....