TIG: Switched from forehand to backhand - BIG improvement!

admin

I've been MIG welding at work for the past 7yrs - just got put on TIG.  I've had -minimal- (but some) tig experience, but NONE on stainless and none on sheet.I'm doing stainless sheet. (16ga)  - no filler.I was having problems with my lap joints being too thick, and grey.  'Always using forehand (push) method. Since my electrode is like 1/30th" above the weld pool, when I'm traveling from right to left (I'm right-handed), I could never see the amount of fusion because the electrode was soon right over the part I just welded, as I traveled.I just switched to backhand/pull and found I can get a MUCH better view of the puddle, thus I can get the tungsten right down close to the metal and keep a tight arc/puddle.  Finally getting all sorts of nice blues and purples in my welds.Coming from a SMAW (stick) background, I find it much more comfortable to use the backhand direction (weld left to right)  'Kinda like a very precise stick weld I just wanted to share this with anyone starting out on stainless sheet metal.  If you're having problems, just experiment and try welding backhand instead of forehand. It might work for you!"A winner isn't someone who doesn't lose, a winner is someone who doesn't quit."
Reply:Its pretty easy to do it the normal way... you really shouldn't have to resort to welding like that.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:You should try using a gas lens...allowing you to place the point of the tungsten out a further( much further if you need to) to see what your doing...also is better for drafty shops, getting into tight spaces easier...Lincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:pics or it never happened!!
Reply:I have to agree, that's the hard way to go about it.  Sure there are some times when you have to TIG backhanded due to joint design, but I do try and limit those.  Increase your stickout or get a gas lenses and really increase it.
Reply:I'll just keep going forward thank you....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I revel in others successes, so I say "nice!". I build commercial ovens and bakery equipment so the majority of time I spend with a TIG torch is on very thin stainless. Do what works and grow your skill toolbox from there.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oscarpics or it never happened!!
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverIts pretty easy to do it the normal way... you really shouldn't have to resort to welding like that.
Reply:I wasn't comparing my experience to yours, don't be rediculous.We have alot of excellent tig welders here on this forum, If you come here with a humble attitude towards learning you'll find people will be much more willing to offer you help. I had a guy at work doing some superb looking 16ga stainless lap welds (on pipe even) within an hour, and he'd never done any welding of any kind in his life.And for any noobs out there I wouldn't recommend teaching yourself odd techniques. If you need help, ask... that's one of the main purposes of this forum.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:What's the difference from a technical stand point? More or less penetration? I feel that if filler rod was being added...wouldn't it block your puddle from view? My tig experience is next to none so I'm just asking out of curiosity. Thanks for reading!
Reply:If it works for you then why not. I am right handed and when I have it in my left hand I can't see **** Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Push gas drag slag bub.Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller Spectrum 250DMiller Millermatic 200Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....
Reply:Eventually it is good to know how to TIG in ANY direction, up/down, to the left, to the right, at an angle, with a mirror, standing on your head, you name it.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverI wasn't comparing my experience to yours, don't be rediculous.We have alot of excellent tig welders here on this forum, If you come here with a humble attitude towards learning you'll find people will be much more willing to offer you help. I had a guy at work doing some superb looking 16ga stainless lap welds (on pipe even) within an hour, and he'd never done any welding of any kind in his life.And for any noobs out there I wouldn't recommend teaching yourself odd techniques. If you need help, ask... that's one of the main purposes of this forum.
Reply:IME, TIG welding backhand (which I could define to be, pointing the outlet of the torch cup opposite of the direction of travel, and reaching the filler rod also from the back) will cause a taller, built-up weld bead, that has less penetration.That's because the argon that is heated by the arc is not flowing out ahead of the weld joint to pre-heat it as it would with a forehand technique, so the weld joint is not getting pre-heated as much, and it also cools the puddle more slowly.  So usually feeding in filler rod more quickly is important for cooling the puddle, otherwise the puddle will get stretched out / elongated.  This technique can be useful in allowing some pretty tall and narrow bead height build-ups, but is not the hot ticket if you need to penetrate into the parent metals.  I find the backhand technique to be most desirable for when I'm welding on an edge that I want to quickly (and dramatically) build up.  Sometimes if it's the only way the joint can be accessed (due to physical limitations hindering what is possible with torch angles, filler rod access.  Sometimes, there are reasons for wanting to progress the weld bead in a particular direction (e.g., to minimize residual stresses or better control heat)  Generally though, forehand will be more useful for most common TIG welding applications.  For a more common TIG welding application where we're joining two pieces of metal together, we'll prefer the weld bead to be more penetrated, and less built-up, and forehand will be better for achieving those objectives.You might try using less torch angle on your forehand technique to get better inert gas coverage over the welded bead on your stainless weld joints.  If you use too much torch angle (forehand), the filler rod can melt before you're ready for it to melt, and you can draft air into the weld joint.  If you find your welded bead is oxidizing, try using less torch angle with your forehand welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruIME, TIG welding backhand (which I could define to be, pointing the outlet of the torch cup opposite of the direction of travel, and reaching the filler rod also from the back) will cause a taller, built-up weld bead, that has less penetration.That's because the argon that is heated by the arc is not flowing out ahead of the weld joint to pre-heat it as it would with a forehand technique, so the weld joint is not getting pre-heated as much, and it also cools the puddle more slowly.  So usually feeding in filler rod more quickly is important for cooling the puddle, otherwise the puddle will get stretched out / elongated.  This technique can be useful in allowing some pretty tall and narrow bead height build-ups, but is not the hot ticket if you need to penetrate into the parent metals.  I find the backhand technique to be most desirable for when I'm welding on an edge that I want to quickly (and dramatically) build up.  Sometimes if it's the only way the joint can be accessed (due to physical limitations hindering what is possible with torch angles, filler rod access.  Sometimes, there are reasons for wanting to progress the weld bead in a particular direction (e.g., to minimize residual stresses or better control heat)  Generally though, forehand will be more useful for most common TIG welding applications.  For a more common TIG welding application where we're joining two pieces of metal together, we'll prefer the weld bead to be more penetrated, and less built-up, and forehand will be better for achieving those objectives.You might try using less torch angle on your forehand technique to get better inert gas coverage over the welded bead on your stainless weld joints.  If you use too much torch angle (forehand), the filler rod can melt before you're ready for it to melt, and you can draft air into the weld joint.  If you find your welded bead is oxidizing, try using less torch angle with your forehand welding.
Reply:Thanks for the answers guys. As I said I'm completely new to tig welding. Although I do watch it a lot on YouTube. . Thanks for reading!
Reply:Originally Posted by z0diacLap welds on 16ga stainless:http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1...ackhand001.jpgTop weld I was whipping a bit, bottom just dragging straight :http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/337...ackhand002.jpghttp://img42.imageshack.us/img42/589...ackhand003.jpgRemember though, I've only been TIG welding for 3 days...   Hopefully I'll get better with time.
Reply:jakeru:  There's *no* filler added.  We're running at like 80A. 16ga and 18ga stainless.  It's about 1/16" thick.  All fusion welds (no gap).I have to disagree with the statement about argon pre-heating.  Your shielding gas just shields the weld from air, and stabilizes the arc.  But welding forehand WILL (as you said) give more heat, because the part you're moving up to is always heated by the flame coming off the arc, as the arc kind of 'bounces' toward your direction of travel.You might try using less torch angle on your forehand technique to get better inert gas coverage over the welded bead on your stainless weld joints. If you use too much torch angle (forehand), the filler rod can melt before you're ready for it to melt, and you can draft air into the weld joint. If you find your welded bead is oxidizing, try using less torch angle with your forehand welding. . If you use too much torch angle (forehand), the filler rod can melt before you're ready for it to melt, and you can draft air into the weld joint. If you find your welded bead is oxidizing, try using less torch angle with your forehand welding.
Reply:try pulse, a good pulse program will make the welds look better and could be faster when no filler is added--------------------------------------------------------------www.becmotors.nlyup, I quit welding.. joined welder anonymous
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTEventually it is good to know how to TIG in ANY direction, up/down, to the left, to the right, at an angle, with a mirror, standing on your head, you name it.
Reply:Originally Posted by kidtigger24I'm guessing foot pedal wouldn't work very well, only torch mounted amp control? kidtigger24
Reply:Originally Posted by kidtigger24Ok, if you can TIG standing on your head, we need to see some video. kidtigger24
Reply:Originally Posted by REDONEI know I can't get away with a video camera at work, but I'll try to get my boss to snap a pic tomorrow. I do QA-inspect/repair on  commercial ovens...Originally Posted by VPTI use the top of my head to push on the peddle when standing on my head and TIG welding.
Reply:everything I've read and seen says never to try to  TIG that way. However, I have never read or  heard any explanation for why not.If I had to guess, I'd say it's got  a lot to do with adding filler material  and  probably something about the gas pushing forward being more likely to also envelop the tip of the filler rod.Spitballing a little further:  I'd guess that pushing the gas in the direction of the weld path also serves to protect the weld longer because of the flow.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rauleverything I've read and seen says never to try to  TIG that way. However, I have never read or  heard any explanation for why not.If I had to guess, I'd say it's got  a lot to do with adding filler material  and  probably something about the gas pushing forward being more likely to also envelop the tip of the filler rod.Spitballing a little further:  I'd guess that pushing the gas in the direction of the weld path also serves to protect the weld longer because of the flow.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rauleverything I've read and seen says never to try to  TIG that way. However, I have never read or  heard any explanation for why not.If I had to guess, I'd say it's got  a lot to do with adding filler material  and  probably something about the gas pushing forward being more likely to also envelop the tip of the filler rod.Spitballing a little further:  I'd guess that pushing the gas in the direction of the weld path also serves to protect the weld longer because of the flow.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonIt is the angle of torch that dictates success or failure of backfeeding. Either way you are filling the puddle with rod. It is something that comes naturally with time.Stationary rosette welds will force you to weld in opposite directions.
Reply:Originally Posted by jorge330823Ok so I completed welding school, twice. In class and in the field I can perform amazingly. But I went to test the other day and I had a problem I've never had. A regular 6g test on XXH carbon and I couldn't seem to get the cap right. I passed root and fill (all tig btw) but when I went to cap I busted. My biggest struggle was the rigs they had at the lab were non flex heads and I'm used to flex heads. Any tips on welding with non flex heads?
Reply:I usually push, but yes you can do it both ways.  I taught myself, and everything I did was backwards, I pushed stick and dragged mig 30 years ago.  I now at least drag stick, but I still prefer to drag mig. I push tig, but I put my tungsten almost flush with the cup to avoid contaminating it.  I have never been coordinated enough to stick it out like most welders do.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonTwist your wrist? Were you undercutting on one side?
Reply:Originally Posted by wendellNo need to guess.  You're correct.  This stuff is known.
Reply:# 10 is more than adequate for the 211i. With your #4 you'll be ready for quite a beast indeed, maybe a Syncrowave 350? JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps