cost of argon by the hour / half hour?

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Long story short I graduated from college about five months ago few points shy of a 4.0 so now I have two degrees in welding. I opened up my own mechanic and fab shop a month ago and I'm doing good my question is I recently bought two four foot bottles one of pure argon for my tig welder and another one of 75-25 for the mig welder I want to say there 90 cfm sounds right cost 195 each with 35 dollar refills. How much should I charge a hour if I'm running 20-25 cfm through my rig? And still make a profit please help only math that makes sense to me is pipe fitting math don't worry I got a great book keeperQuote Originally Posted by vwguy3  View PostHave you ever seen a cow that was welding overhead burst into flames my certs as of 1/29/14SMAW3G plate 2,4,6, 6Ghard wire and flux core 3GGTAW2,4,6 6G3G plate SS sch 80 6G
Reply:They are probably 125 cf bottles. At 25 cfh it will take 5 hours to empty one. $35 / 5 hours is $7 / hour.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Thanks I feel like a idiot its cfh not cfm its late I'm off to bed lolQuote Originally Posted by vwguy3  View PostHave you ever seen a cow that was welding overhead burst into flames my certs as of 1/29/14SMAW3G plate 2,4,6, 6Ghard wire and flux core 3GGTAW2,4,6 6G3G plate SS sch 80 6G
Reply:I'm thinking a minimum of 35 a hour plus steel for mild still and 60 a hour for stainless steel since I have to purge stainless dose that sound like enough to cover gas tungsten filler rod?Quote Originally Posted by vwguy3  View PostHave you ever seen a cow that was welding overhead burst into flames my certs as of 1/29/14SMAW3G plate 2,4,6, 6Ghard wire and flux core 3GGTAW2,4,6 6G3G plate SS sch 80 6G
Reply:No idea. Never had to deal with all that. I weld for me and friends at home...GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:I don't screw around with mixed rates.  I work for the same rate regardless of what I'm doing.  As I add equipment, my rates go up to match my capabilities.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Do yourself a favor and get yourself a program like quick books to help you calculate what your actual costs are.To me $35 an hour would be too low. At best I'd be lucky to break even and make no money for myself. You need to figure out what your overhead is going to cost and then add any money you would like to pay yourself.Ask these questions, what does the basics cost? Rent, electric, phone, insurance ( you have insurance right?), vehicle expenses ( fuel, up keep, insurance), business licenses/taxes, health care costs, and so on. Then you can start figuring out what consumables and all add up to. It's easy to figure out the big expenses, but it's the little ones that add up and kill you. Grinding disks, saw blades, sand paper, misc hardware, paint... Most guys can remember a big purchase like a box of filler to bill for, but gas, cups/tungsten etc that you don't buy every day eats up profits fast if you don't track and allow for them. When I paint I almost always allow $60 in misc materials minimum. That covers the roller covers, paint pads, brush, cleaning solvents, tape, and so on. Then I'll add the actual paint. Any "extra" money usually eventually ends up covering new canvas tarps when they need to get replaced, though it the job is big enough I try to bake at least one if not 2 new tarps into the materials cost.I see a lot of guys who start their own businesses fail, not because they can't do the work, but because they can't run a business. Simple costs add up fast and it's very easy to do a lot of work and loose money. Most guys I see who do side work loose money if they actually sat down and looked at what it was really costing them to do that little $50 job. I need to clear at least $2K a month to cover insurance, the truck, phone etc and I don't have to pay rent or cover shop electric since all my work is done at others homes. I bet if I added water /sewer/electric and rent etc, I'd have to clear close to another $1K a month easy. Then I might get to pay myself, assuming the truck doesn't need another big expense ( this year that's added up to over $13K in the one truck and the 2nd needs almost $5K when the funds become available), or I need to buy a special tool for a job or repair/replace an existing tool.Keep in mind work doesn't always flow thru the door in the beginning or even all the time all year long. However costs do. You have to bank enough "spare" cash to cover months when you are light in cash flow. I know I have to be really careful what I spend my profits on in the summer because work usually dies after October and won't really start back up until April when the weather breaks. I need to keep enough cash on hand to cover those months when I'm laying out more than I'm bringing in..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW,     That is some great advise.  I have owned my own business before and I completely agree that its the little "hidden" costs that add up.  I also learned to not be afraid to charge what it takes to do it right. People might bitch up front about it being allot of money, but they will bitch forever if they are unhappy with the finished product.
Reply:You think your prices are high until you get a quote for the same job from someone else as a price check. It's the same for selling welded art work. Price seems high to us but then you see a similar piece for double what you are asking.
Reply:Originally Posted by tylersloanI'm thinking a minimum of 35 a hour plus steel for mild still and 60 a hour for stainless steel since I have to purge stainless dose that sound like enough to cover gas tungsten filler rod?
Reply:Don't forget about taxes.  I assume since you spent $ and time to get certified you are going to have a legit tax paying auditable business.Get your State resale Cert so you don't have to pay taxes on the items you will be reselling and have to pay taxes again on the same thing.Gasses usually are not tax free, but most everything else is.And... If you are going to go into business in Kaliforniastan, MOVE to a friendlier state.  What you will have to charge just for the safety BS will scare the customers away.  I had two manufacturing businesses in Kalifornia and shut them both down.  The State was at my door every month inspecting or handing me a bill.  SOrry, venting....Good luck.
Reply:Originally Posted by tylersloanLong story short I graduated from college about five months ago few points shy of a 4.0 so now I have two degrees in welding. I opened up my own mechanic and fab shop a month ago and I'm doing good my question is I recently bought two four foot bottles one of pure argon for my tig welder and another one of 75-25 for the mig welder I want to say there 90 cfm sounds right cost 195 each with 35 dollar refills. How much should I charge a hour if I'm running 20-25 cfm through my rig? And still make a profit please help only math that makes sense to me is pipe fitting math don't worry I got a great book keeper
Reply:It's not unusual for me to see rates of $90/hr for welders in the field and $60+ for shop time.
Reply:Originally Posted by tylersloanLong story short I graduated from college about five months ago few points shy of a 4.0 so now I have two degrees in welding. I opened up my own mechanic and fab shop a month ago and I'm doing good my question is I recently bought two four foot bottles one of pure argon for my tig welder and another one of 75-25 for the mig welder I want to say there 90 cfm sounds right cost 195 each with 35 dollar refills. How much should I charge a hour if I'm running 20-25 cfm through my rig? And still make a profit please help only math that makes sense to me is pipe fitting math don't worry I got a great book keeper
Reply:Originally Posted by dbstooPlease do not take offense.   I have no degrees, so I was wondering what they teach that will give you TWO welding degrees and yet not cover the basics of identifying the bottles nor calculations for gas usage?   Is it a structural engineering degree?   Don't they require any sort of cost analysis in any of the studies?I'm just curious.    When I qualified for my computer certifications (one of the first that was available 25 years ago)  I had to show a basic knowledge of all areas of computing, including the business aspects.    I would expect the same from a degree program.Dan
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1That's why he's a few points shy of the 4.0 grade
Reply:Just do as my mechanic does, charge a "shop materials" charge on each invoice. It could cover filler metals, abrasives, coverage gas, plasma consumables, etc. Find out what the industry standard is and tack it on to the ticket. Some jobs will require more materials, some less, but it would average out in the long run. Some customers may complain, most won't.
Reply:Originally Posted by tylersloanThanks I feel like a idiot its cfh not cfm its late I'm off to bed lol
Reply:Thanks guys I won't be on the road welding its all shop work and please forgive my ignorance it was a long day yesterday .One degree was at ICC two years welding technology Next was MIT 9 month with pipe fitting math both college's got me to the point where I'm confident to take a common arc for boiler makers unions I passed my first one two months after learning how to scratch start needless to say they were impressed the contractors that is.Quote Originally Posted by vwguy3  View PostHave you ever seen a cow that was welding overhead burst into flames my certs as of 1/29/14SMAW3G plate 2,4,6, 6Ghard wire and flux core 3GGTAW2,4,6 6G3G plate SS sch 80 6G
Reply:Don't worry too much about cost per hour or Half Hour, or measuring your filler rod and see how much you use, its all negligible. What you nee to do is work out a decent rate per hour for the type of work and experience that you have.I charge a set amount and 20% on to for consumables, everyone happy and you have a standard method for giving out quick accurate rates without hours of working out and worry which might make you look amateurish.
Reply:I charge 55 a hr flat rate in shop 65 hr out in field plus a trip charge over 20 miles plus materials such as steel and paint I cover the gas and wire and disk and such under my flat rate which comes out not as big of profit in my pocket as u would think but it's those jobs I do really good on that make up for those I don't . Now I also charge a minimum 1 hr plus trip if I go out in field some were I don't do that at the shop if someone comes in with a little 5 min something I just tell them 5 10 bucks or sometimes nothing but it has also gotten my a heap or good jobs from those people because most people have a minimum charge no matter how long it takes
Reply:I do a lot of small work in aluminum. Most take 30 minute or less of actual welding. I always add $5 to my cost to account for gas and filler and tungsten. It also doesn't hurt to count your filler rod and divide the cost per pound to see how much you have into each piece of filler.I think I was 30 cents a piece last I counted for 3/32.$5 isn't much but keep in mind I have had the same alumina cup on there for months. Figure they are $1 each. $1 each in filler. I have been using the same tungsten for over a month now also.But you have to figure out what works for you. With a shop and I insurance your overhead is more than mine for welding at home.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer