Acid type to soak aluminum in?

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Hello guys,I mad a post a little while back about these aluminum ferrules I got that would weld worth a crap, well I have figured out why, the ferrules are made out of 6061 BUT they have a thick layer of some type of coating that makes them almost unweldable, and even if u get beads on them they ate full of black specs and look like absolute crap. Anyhow I found that using a SS brush and acetone isn't enough that coating is that thick, other then getting them turned on a lathe or acid soak will get it off. My question is what would u guys recommend chemical wise that would eat this coating off and leave me with the good aluminum left? I don't think acetone will do it, thanks for any help...
Reply:Sounds like they are anodized.Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:Easy Off oven cleaner in the yellow spray can. It's an alkali not an acid.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:4 1/2" Flap wheel on a grinder if you have the coordination to only take off the coating where needed.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Pool acid from Home Depot(muriatic) is what I use if the plater is closed. Then a cleanup with Protek alumiclean.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thanks for the advise, I will try the oven cleaner tonight, if that dosnt work I was going to go get concrete acid at Home Depot, I herd that stuff works really well  for what  after.I soaked the ferrules in acetone last night let it soak over night, took them out this morning and dosnt look like it did a damn thing lol....anyone ever use concrete acid?
Reply:The acid you clean concrete with is Muriatic acid with some buffers in it
Reply:I use lye for my etch when I do Anodizing.  Usually 15-30 min soak will take off 1 mil of anodizing.
Reply:Alright, just picked up a gallon of the pool cleaner, I gonna try this out tonight, so does this require any additional cleaning of the aluminum after its takin out of the muriatic acid?Here is a pic of the bottle does this l
Reply:This look right? Attached Images
Reply:Be careful with Muriatic acid and use it only outdoors.  A little fuming and it will ruin all your steel tools in a heartbeat."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:What do you mean by ruin my steel tools with just the fumes? I know it's acid but is it some super crazy stuff I need hazmat suits to use lol? Figure if they put it in pool water it could t be that bad but I guess when you put it I a pool your really deluting it... How long should I soak the ferrules for? Wi the 6061 turn a certain color that indicates that the coating is gone? I know it's acid and any chemical should be handled with care and commen scenae but is there anything I really need to be warned about this stuff, I work around skydrol and when I first worked around it no one mentioned to me how bad it really was on your skin u till I got some on me which left bad burns in alms areas.
Reply:Zep makes a product called Zepalum for etching aluminum.  It will remove any coating in seconds but its nasty stuff and contains hydrofluoric acid.
Reply:HCL fumes will turn tools black, not instantly, just give em time. We use lots of it at work, and things in that department just disintegrate.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:we use a solution of 50% nitric acid with 1% hydrofluoric acid cut with 49% water let it soak for 30 seconds to a minute and rinse with water and weld away use chemical gloves and do not get it on youwe Prep all of the aluminum we do this way in the weld zone prior to weld out No Stainless brush neededMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Zep's king.  Been using their orange degreaser for anos.  Good to learn 'bout the Zepalum.  Why does that remind me of a Lee Zeppelin Alumni? Ha!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:I was a Millwright in an aluminum extrusion mill years back and they had this stuff called bright dip. It was in large vats. You only had to dip the aluminum for a couple seconds and then get it out and into water bath to neutralize it. The aluminum dipped looked like it was high polished after the dip. I remember one time one of the guys there had a set of hub caps he wanted to look good so I told him to bright dip them and he would be good to go. He tied them onto coat hangers and dropped them in the dip. He proceeded to go get lunch. On his return he started bitching as to who took his hub caps. He was told the bright dip ate them. He had to be shown because he still thought someone took them but after seeing what the stuff did to an aluminum bar 1/2" thick stock piece in 5 minutes he shut up and went on his way. What a dope.
Reply:Originally Posted by InkydoggyI was a Millwright in an aluminum extrusion mill years back and they had this stuff called bright dip. It was in large vats. You only had to dip the aluminum for a couple seconds and then get it out and into water bath to neutralize it. The aluminum dipped looked like it was high polished after the dip. I remember one time one of the guys there had a set of hub caps he wanted to look good so I told him to bright dip them and he would be good to go. He tied them onto coat hangers and dropped them in the dip. He proceeded to go get lunch. On his return he started bitching as to who took his hub caps. He was told the bright dip ate them. He had to be shown because he still thought someone took them but after seeing what the stuff did to an aluminum bar 1/2" thick stock piece in 5 minutes he shut up and went on his way. What a dope.
Reply:I've seen Lye recommended for stripping anodizing.  Easy Off (yellow can) contains 3-7 percent Lye according to the MSDS.  Don't get it in your eyes!  A hot solution of TSP will also etch Aluminum.That Zep Alum stuff  is a mixture of sufuric, hydrofluoric and phosphoric acids plus other chemicals.  Be very wary of hydrofluoric acid (HF).  It will pass through skin and eat bone."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:So what would the LWS sell for this. Also here is good read on welding on anodized: http://www.weldcraft.com/2009/04/tig...ized-aluminum/
Reply:if you do not want to mix up acids you can get this at your LWS premixed I have used it at work works well we just found it cheaper to mix up our own mixture http://www.arcalchem.com/Pages/WeldO.htmlMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Soaked it for 10 min last night, mixed it with water 1/10 ratio, after letting it soak for 10 min  it does not " look any different" not to day it didnt remove the coating, I guess I was expecting it to turn grey or at least get darker, it looks the exact same when I compare to a mon soaked ferrule, one thing I did notice was on the ends of the ferrule it had a few little chips missing and under it was black, looked like paint when it chips.I am going to weld it tonight hopefully it worked and its weldable,Any thoughts on the ratio I used?
Reply:Muriatic acid as typically sold is what, maybe 25-30% concentration?  So you might be a bit weak.  Temperature has an effect.If you don't know what coating you are stripping, it's a crap shoot.  Looking around at etchants for Aluminum, I see little mention of using plain HCL. Most are alkaline, not acid."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:It was super cold last night when I did this outside last night, about 30 degrees...From what I have researched on using this acid is that it should have turned the aluminum grey, it is still the exact same color, I used a mild steel filler rod to hang the ferrule to allow me to dip it in the acid, the filler rod is a copper color I don't know how the mild steel would react to the acid but it is still the same color as well, is this a indication that my mixture is to weak? What are your thoughts on using 100% acid but dipping it in for a short time? Only thing I noticed while checking in it while soaking was that it did form alott of bubbles on the aluminum which I figured it would do and a sign of it actually doing somthing, all it did in the end appearance wise was just left some small chip like on the edge of the ferrule.Thanks for all the advise, it is greatly appreciated.
Reply:Originally Posted by ModifydIt was super cold last night when I did this outside last night, about 30 degrees...From what I have researched on using this acid is that it should have turned the aluminum grey, it is still the exact same color, I used a mild steel filler rod to hang the ferrule to allow me to dip it in the acid, the filler rod is a copper color I don't know how the mild steel would react to the acid but it is still the same color as well, is this a indication that my mixture is to weak? What are your thoughts on using 100% acid but dipping it in for a short time? Only thing I noticed while checking in it while soaking was that it did form alott of bubbles on the aluminum which I figured it would do and a sign of it actually doing somthing, all it did in the end appearance wise was just left some small chip like on the edge of the ferrule.Thanks for all the advise, it is greatly appreciated.Tha ks for the reply, yes I would interested in any notes you have if you do t mind checking, I don't know if it is anodized or not, I am not to knowledgable on telling the properties of metals by looking at it other then basic knowledge stuff, that's interesting about anodizing not being able to conduct electricity, so basically if I used a multimeter and see if it flows a current I can tell? With a multimeter measuring in ohms I shouldn't get a reading at all? Or just a very low readi g if its anodized? Is that correct?The aluminum ferrule was made over seas most likey turned on a metal lathe, they advertise it as being 6061 but it dosnt weld like any aluminum I e ever welded, I've read from other who have welding the same stuff stating that it has a nasty coating they did t say what kind of coating just nasty, and claimed after soaking it in concrete cleaner and it turning a dull grey it then welding nicely, it just dosnt make any sence to me for a company to make a part that HAS to be welded to be used but them have it coated with some nasty **** that makes it almost unweldable...
Reply:Also, just to clear things up for me, I am under the impression that anythi g that is anodized dos t weld good?
Reply:sigh...Dude. seriously go to the grocery store or walmart or whatever, take $4 with you and buy the oven cleaner I described. You don't need to 'experiment' and waste any more time and money. I know it works. It removes anodizing in seconds-minutes. Muriatic acid will make a black 'sooty' mess of aluminum and probably won't do anything to anodizing. The fumes do precipitate from the air and will lightly etch any tools or whatever in the area so use it outside (for other projects that is since it's not going to help you here anyway, it is excellent for making galvonized nuts and bolt perfectly weldable though).Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:What's the active ingredient in oven cleaner that makes it work so well?up to this point I havnt had anyone suggest that...
Reply:If you really want to experiment then here is the easiest way I have found to tell if it's anodized or not. Try to polish it with a rag and a drop of chrome or aluminum polish. It'll take 5-10 seconds. If it shines up then it is not anodized. If it stays as it was, it has some kind of treatment.  To remove it, oven cleaner works good but I use crystal draino. I pour in a little of the powder in a pyrex bowl add some water, drop in my part and stir it around some or brush it where I want the aluminum prepped and rinse it off. All that'll take another 5-10 seconds.  If you want to see it in action, try it on anything that's has a colored anodizing. I have a pedal bike that has a red seat post, red handlebars and pedals and I strip a lot of AN fittings so if you look around you can probably find something you already have you can try it on and see it work. KB.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyversigh...Dude. seriously go to the grocery store or walmart or whatever, take $4 with you and buy the oven cleaner I described. You don't need to 'experiment' and waste any more time and money. I know it works. It removes anodizing in seconds-minutes. Muriatic acid will make a black 'sooty' mess of aluminum and probably won't do anything to anodizing. The fumes do precipitate from the air and will lightly etch any tools or whatever in the area so use it outside (for other projects that is since it's not going to help you here anyway, it is excellent for making galvonized nuts and bolt perfectly weldable though).
Reply:Originally Posted by ModifydWhat's the active ingredient in oven cleaner that makes it work so well?up to this point I havnt had anyone suggest that...
Reply:Eagle One mag wheel cleaner will work. Ingredients from MSDS/Label  Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent Alcohol ethoxylate 000000-72-9 1.0-1.5 Sodium octyl sulfonate 005324-84-5 1.0-1.5 Phosphoric acid 007664-38-2 10.0-15.0 Hydrogen fluoride 007664-39-3 1.5-5.0 Sulfuric acid 007664-93-9 1.5-5.0 http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ntifier=286633__________________Miller MM252Lincoln AC Buzz BoxCentury 155Victor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott0303Eagle One mag wheel cleaner will work. Ingredients from MSDS/Label  Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent Alcohol ethoxylate 000000-72-9 1.0-1.5 Sodium octyl sulfonate 005324-84-5 1.0-1.5 Phosphoric acid 007664-38-2 10.0-15.0 Hydrogen fluoride 007664-39-3 1.5-5.0 Sulfuric acid 007664-93-9 1.5-5.0 http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ntifier=286633
Reply:Originally Posted by ModifydAlso, just to clear things up for me, I am under the impression that anythi g that is anodized dos t weld good?
Reply:Originally Posted by ModifydTha ks for the reply, yes I would interested in any notes you have if you do t mind checking, I don't know if it is anodized or not, I am not to knowledgable on telling the properties of metals by looking at it other then basic knowledge stuff, that's interesting about anodizing not being able to conduct electricity, so basically if I used a multimeter and see if it flows a current I can tell? With a multimeter measuring in ohms I shouldn't get a reading at all? Or just a very low readi g if its anodized? Is that correct?The aluminum ferrule was made over seas most likey turned on a metal lathe, they advertise it as being 6061 but it dosnt weld like any aluminum I e ever welded, I've read from other who have welding the same stuff stating that it has a nasty coating they did t say what kind of coating just nasty, and claimed after soaking it in concrete cleaner and it turning a dull grey it then welding nicely, it just dosnt make any sence to me for a company to make a part that HAS to be welded to be used but them have it coated with some nasty **** that makes it almost unweldable...
Reply:Originally Posted by Brent878Anodizing is just a contored layer of oxidation.  I bascially oxidize the alum with electricity in a acid bath.  I can control the size and depth of the oxidization with volts and time left in.  At a certain point in the process you can add dies to the oxidized layer before sealing it up and that's how you get the different colors.  This is type II, type III is the same just a deeper oxidiztion and requires alot more volts than type II but is the same process.  Usually you will see it advertized as hard anodiziing and only comes in dark green or black.So that is why its hard/impossible to weld through anodizing.  Its just a huge laryer of oxididation.  It would be like taking a old alum and not cleaning it before welding.
Reply:Aside from some off-the-wall coating, Aluminum is generally anodized or coated with a chromate "conversion coating".  Trade names for the latter include Alodine and Iridite. I can't find any ready info for how to easily strip the latter, but they are thin."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumAside from some off-the-wall coating, Aluminum is generally anodized or coated with a chromate "conversion coating".  Trade names for the latter include Alodine and Iridite. I can't find any ready info for how to easily strip the latter, but they are thin.
Reply:Picked up a can of the easy off oven cleaner in the yellow can, all the other oven cleaners state the ingredients even the easy off brand but only the blue can, the yellow can of easy off does not say anywhere what it contains, hope this really works!How long are you guys leaving the oven cleaner on the  aluminum for? Will there be any color change or any indication that it has done anything?
Reply:muriatic  is 20% technical hydrochloric acid, It's uses include etching concrete, purifying table salt, Adjusting pH in  pretty much everything imaginable, pickling and descaling metals, making PVC,  to dissolve rock to access shale oil,  the stuff is even in your stomach,  It's a wonderfully useful chemical,  don't use it on Stainless though it'll strip away the passive chrome oxide layer.Hey~!! It's a hobby. It's not supposed to make sense~!!
Reply:Originally Posted by WookieWeldingwe use alodine 1001 at work the weld o  that i posted earlier strips it same with the acid mix of nitric & hydroflouric
Reply:Left it on for 5 min, by then it was caked on there, wouldn't wash off even scrubbing, had to use a SS brush, anyways it came off, color looks a little darker, will weld it later in tonight. Here is a pic of 2 ferrules side by side, 1 is untreated  and other had the easy off on , looking at it does it look the way it should after the oven cleaner on it? Attached Images
Reply:Another angle Attached ImagesLast edited by Modifyd; 04-13-2013 at 10:26 PM.
Reply:Which one in the pics was cleaned? Try it on a known anodized item, like a carabiner or a cheapo pocket knife or some other trinket.I had to weld a black anodized Russel automotive tube fiting once, 5 minutes of easy off and it was completely clean aluminum, I had to lightly brush the threads with a stainless toothbrush to break it all free. I even turned a pop can into a completely clean aluminum can to see if it would.A tip: don't let the stuff dry on the part. Wash it off and reapply before it dries.Last edited by MikeGyver; 04-15-2013 at 02:50 AM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Are we talking just wash it off with water? How does the easy off work out $$ wise and effectiveness from the LWS would sell?
Reply:It's the bottom one, the shinier one is the non treated one, after I sprayed it and washed it off I noticed scratch like voids in the material, I doubt the easy off did that, I assume that's how the material looked before they anodized and why they anodized it to make the material look better... Cheap *** Chinese lol
Reply:That's was my mistake also by letting it dry and get caked on there, after I sprayed it and hung it up to treat I started welding se other stuff and forgot to check on it and when I did it was dried up crud
Reply:Originally Posted by ModifydIt's the bottom one, the shinier one is the non treated one, after I sprayed it and washed it off I noticed scratch like voids in the material, I doubt the easy off did that, I assume that's how the material looked before they anodized and why they anodized it to make the material look better... Cheap *** Chinese lol
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonPool acid from Home Depot(muriatic) is what I use if the plater is closed. Then a cleanup with Protek alumiclean.