Buying a welder next week, but which one?

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I'm in the market for a mig welder, probably going to pick it up next week, but I can't decide which one is the better bang for the buck. I will mainly use it for light work, I do want to build a 5x8 or a 6x10 utility trailer with it as my first project. And I may do a little sheet metal work with it also, maybe reparing 4 wheeler frames if needed.The first is the miller 175, my local welding shop sells them for $860+tax.http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...p?model=M00209The second is the hobart handler 190http://www.tractorsupply.com/hobart-...-ready-1021027Third is lincoln pro mig 180http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...roduct=K2481-1Do all of these have the cold tip until the trigger is pulled?The main thing I'm on the fence about is the voltage selector. Does it really matter if it's tapped or infinite? I think the only one out of those 3 that's infinite is the miller.I also looked at a few 110v units by the same companies, but I don't know if they would be heavy enough for doing a trailer or not.Any info on any of these is greatly appreciated.
Reply:No offense, if you have to ask which welder to buy, your first project shouldn't be a trailer. Trailers are not "learning" projects.If you are not capable of doing code quality welds in all positions using the proper equipment, you shouldn't be welding on trailers and vehicle suspension components that will be used on the road..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Let me rephrase that then, The trailer will be my first BIG project. I've got some other things that I'll get practice on around the house before I jump into anything that big.
Reply:Miller's 211 auto set is about the hottest selling machine in my area. Multi volt too 220/110. Big bang for the money. Do a search and you'll find great info. Price around 1050.00
Reply:I looked at that one also, but I'm trying to keep it around the 7-800 dollar range.And to DSW: wasn't trying to be a smartass or anything, I've got alot of scrap metal around the house and I'm going to get alot of practice just running beads and general welding. My buddy that's been welding for years let me run a bead with his welder, he said it was one of the best beads he'd seen from a first timer.
Reply:Originally Posted by jsinarI looked at that one also, but I'm trying to keep it around the 7-800 dollar range.
Reply:I'd bump my budget up to $850 and go with a Hobart Handler 210 MVP. Since fabricating a trailer is one of your long term goals, the additional top end power of the 210 over 180 units could be a beneficial option to have available. Over the years a significant amount of items have been fabricated with Tap V units like the Handler 210.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNo offense, if you have to ask which welder to buy, your first project shouldn't be a trailer. Trailers are not "learning" projects.If you are not capable of doing code quality welds in all positions using the proper equipment, you shouldn't be welding on trailers and vehicle suspension components that will be used on the road.
Reply:Originally Posted by jsinarI looked at that one also, but I'm trying to keep it around the 7-800 dollar range.And to DSW: wasn't trying to be a smartass or anything, I've got alot of scrap metal around the house and I'm going to get alot of practice just running beads and general welding.
Reply:Went to another friend's house and ran a bead with his, This is my second ever bead with a mig welder, What do you guys think?
Reply:If you take a band saw and cut down through the weld it may show you how the two are fused, and search for some info on dye penetration inspection.TxDoc's Photos Lincoln SP175 PlusLincoln Power Mig 256Lincoln 250 LX Spool Gun Lincoln Precision Tig 225 Hypertherm 600 KMG 2x72 Belt GrinderBaldor 812RE Grinder
Reply:I totally agree with what is being said here.  Weld a lot.  Learn about penetration by cutting welds and swabbing them to check the weld.  Pretty welds break just like ugly ones if they are not properly made.I regularly tell people it takes hundreds of hours to be good.  That's just the skills.  The metal knowledge for building stuff takes longer.My favorite quote comes from my brother when he finally picked up a stinger to have me teach him SMAW.  "What the hell?!?  I been watching you weld for 20 years why is this so hard?"Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:One of the dangers of mig for a noobie (or even a hack like me) is they are much easier to pretty pretty beads of weld that will not hold.  As with a woman, just cause it looks pretty does not mean it is quality.
Reply:Some of the prettiest mug welds are too cold. While I think some overreact when people talk about building a trailer it is a difficult task that requires engineering and design.keep at it and buy as big a welder as you can. A mm 175 or 180 is nice but 1/8" is about all thats practical unless you like doing 3" welds than waiting.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Of the welders mentioned so far, I'd either get the Hobart 210, or the Miller 211.  Here's the deal with welding a trailer.  Unless you are doing something very specific, and hard to find in an existing trailer, or you have access to super cheap or free materials, it is hard to come out ahead.  Especially if you factor in your time.  Let's just say you are going to build a 6 x 10 utility trailer (this is the smallest size I would consider, as I have owned a 5 x 8 and own a 6 x 10, you get 60 sq ft with the larger trailer, compared to only 40 sq ft with the smaller, that's a 50% increase! Anyway.... say you are going to build the 6 x 10, you get a 3,500lb axle kit, (complete with springs and mounting hardware), wheels. tires, lighting kit, decking, coupler, jack, safety chains, AND the actual steel for construction, and you are into the trailer for nearly what it would cost around here new, and more than a used one would cost.  Decent trailers that size go used around here for as little as $500.  Just the hardware and axle kit would run you that much.  The hard part about building a trailer is making sure the frame is near perfectly straight, and the axle runs true, so that it tows straight, and of course making sure your welds are all solid, and your weight distribution will be good.  If you have a specialized need for the trailer, I suggest buying a good, used frame, and building on it.  much easier, safer and cheaper.  I have built a trailer ground up, and I have built up an existing trailer.  The latter option is MUCH easier and a whole lot cheaper.  Good luck!  One other welder to consider, if you are looking down into the 175 area is the Eastwood.  I really love mine.  Once you have infinite heat/power adjustment, you'll never want to go back to having taps.  My Eastwood was $499 shipped to my door with a 3 yr warranty on everything but consumables.  I can tell no difference in power between this, and a friend's Lincoln 180.Last edited by IronHide; 01-13-2013 at 06:55 PM.Check out my channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkz...bZg8AYNXGqBjZQ"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms." - Aristotle
Reply:Get the hobart 190 .Most bang for the buck.Backroads
Reply:Originally Posted by jsinarWent to another friend's house and ran a bead with his, This is my second ever bead with a mig welder, What do you guys think?
Reply:My local college just started a welding class I was going to call about it today just to see, but over the weekend, my friend said he's going to try to pull some strings and try to get me on with him with noble offshore drilling.It was 1/4". I'm right handed, I was pulling left to right with it, I started out moving faster but slowed down with it after the first inch or so. I'm unsure of the settings of the unit, it's an older miller 220v, it has the separate wire feed, instead of the internal spool.
Reply:Had to put getting the welder on the back burner for a little while, but I've got the $ now, I was going back and forth between the 211 and the 110/220v lincoln, but  I've made my mind up on the Miller 211, Cheapest I've found has been $1069 with free shipping from a company on ebay, +5% back from miller, will make it about $1015. Local shops want around $1100+tax. Going to make the order tomorrow after the funds clear my account.
Reply:Good choice!I did a lot of research and ended up with the 211 as well. The MVP is great for smaller projects where I don't have access to 220.
Reply:a couple things i didn't see mentioned.   you are going to be at the top of the duty cycle for building trailers.  if you are using 1/4 steel channel for example.    I had a 175+ lincoln and hit the duty cycle on that all the time... weld 2mins wait 8 for it to cool..  20% duty cycle at whatever listed amps in how many minutes welding you can do in 10 mins.      for mig you want to be in the 40 to 60% range at whatever amperage u plan on using a lot or it will get very frustrating.  I would look for a 250 amp machine used..  plenty of good ones out there for that price...   new, also look at ESAB (migmaster) and Thermal Arc, the 181i, 212i 252i etcThe reason people mentioned not starting with a trailer is that if you are in an accident or the trailer come loose or breaks  etc while driving it will be you on the hook for negligence because you built it and/or welded on it..   A good lawyer, esp if you cause injury or death will get you good.  Believe us, the first the first thing an accident lawyer will look at when he sees a trailer involved IS the trailer. Traffic cops will impound the trailer too if they think it had anything to do with the cause of the accident.When folks say practice here it means many spools of wire and many hours practice..   1/2 a spool of wire and an hr running beads is not going to cut it...Last edited by soutthpaw; 06-17-2013 at 07:29 PM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by jsinarHad to put getting the welder on the back burner for a little while, but I've got the $ now, I was going back and forth between the 211 and the 110/220v lincoln, but  I've made my mind up on the Miller 211, Cheapest I've found has been $1069 with free shipping from a company on ebay, +5% back from miller, will make it about $1015. Local shops want around $1100+tax. Going to make the order tomorrow after the funds clear my account.
Reply:Originally Posted by jsinarHad to put getting the welder on the back burner for a little while, but I've got the $ now, I was going back and forth between the 211 and the 110/220v lincoln, but  I've made my mind up on the Miller 211, Cheapest I've found has been $1069 with free shipping from a company on ebay, +5% back from miller, will make it about $1015. Local shops want around $1100+tax. Going to make the order tomorrow after the funds clear my account.
Reply:Originally Posted by rschreckHmmm. So you are not going to support your LWS to save $100? Not cool dude.
Reply:And I started reading about the Hobart handler 210mvp... So Hobart is Miller's economy line, right? What exactly is different on them? If it's plastic handles and stuff like that that doesn't matter to me, what about the guts? drive wheels.. etc..? Northerntool has them for $879 with free shipping.Experience and this site has taught me one thing; nothing substitutes for experience. One of the best things that ever happened to me was throwing the WOW parties and meeting some really great people and really, really great weldors. Terry, Wes, Hector and 'The BeastMaster" of course you know as Killdozer; having them looking over my shoulder has improved my welding 1000% percent to the point where I'm laying good MIG beads, cutting them, staining them and smiling (and sometimes frowning) at the penetration. And the only thing I'm comfortably qualified to do now is build and repair our horse corals; 16ga at 1-7/8". A trailer? No way. Maybe some day but everyone here's right; it cost more to build one than to buy one.  Building something like that you do because you love welding and getting better, not because you can save money. So, with that said, IMHO, surround yourself with people who have forgotten more than you'll ever know and you'll get alot better alot faster. And as for the machine, I echo everyone; Bigger IS Better. Buy what you don't need now because someday you will, especially if you're contemplating building a trailer!
Reply:I've decided to wait on doing a trailer after reading here, going to get alot of time on small stuff before I tackle something like that.
Reply:Post your location. A member may know of a better local deal.   I would go to local supplier and get a package deal price with a tank, like a 125/150 size.My 211 was $1025 before rebate. I got a tank, consumables, cover, and a tune up kit for the 302 trailblazer for the 15 % rebate.
Reply:Originally Posted by jsinarI don't have deep pockets, I try to save when I can.. But I'll end up buying the bottle and all the consumables from them.
Reply:Originally Posted by rschreckIt's $100. How about you go to your LWS and let them know that you found the same welder they are selling for $100 less and see what they'll do for you.
Reply:Take a look at the Thermal Arc 211i.  I almost bought a MM211.  I've used both and like the arc on my TA better.  The inverter design also seems to be more efficient, which I like.  Add in a longer duty cycle and more features as well.
Reply:Good call on the practice before trailer idea. These are things that, bought the right way the first time, you'll own for a long, long time so buy the best you can and amortize it's cost over a much longer time. I'm facing the same thing right now with my selection of a gas valve for my new gas bottle. After talking to Terry today, I'm spending the money for a Victor that'll handle all the gasses. I'm not using helium or nitrogen now but the time will come when I will. Buying a valve with a 4-sided flow meter gas window now that I know is accurate and can be used for all the different gasses will ultimately serve me well and pay for itself. Just my thoughts of a beginner weldor learning from people who are kind enough to teach me.
Reply:Good morning, jsinar,I've been a hobby welder for 8 years, bought several machines, and currently have the Miller 211.Believe these guys - they are giving you great advice. I know it sounds like they are trying to slow you down, but listen to them and you will save money, have a better machine, and get great instructions from pros. You will become a proficient welder quicker and have some fun while you learn.The Miller 211 is a good choice, and while an extra $30-40 seems important, buying from your local welding service will give you additional resources to ask questions, etc. By buying the welder from them, you likely will buy the bottle cheaper and offset the welder difference. Plus when you need a refill, consumables, etc. they will be quicker to help you.DSW is right about taking a welding course. And I would want a lot more hood time before I signed up for a offshore job. You may be miserable or you may love it, but try to learn more about the trade before you make that decision. Finally, post your location in your profile. There is a good chance someone here is close to you and can help you with purchasing your welder, supply scrap material, or give you some personal instructions to help jumpstart you.Good luck and post more pictures.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Originally Posted by rschreckHmmm. So you are not going to support your LWS to save $100? Not cool dude.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawFirst off I bet his LWS could give a $hit about one small time hobby welder.  Its the commercial customers they want.   If the wanted his business so bad, they would have offered to price match the online deal.
Reply:Originally Posted by jsinarExactly, every time I went in there it was like pulling teeth to talk to them, there's one guy that was helpful tho, the rest of them, not so much.Looks like I'm going with the hobart 210mvp. was checking them out today at atwoods and what sold me on it was the miller gun that came with it. Going to order from northerntool tomorrow, $879, no tax and free shipping. Only drawback it comes from hobart so itll take 7-12 days to get here.
Reply:Thermal arc 181i or 211itackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Is the regulator that comes with the welders good for starting out, or should I go ahead and get the bubble style flowmeter right off the bat?
Reply:Originally Posted by jsinarIs the regulator that comes with the welders good for starting out, or should I go ahead and get the bubble style flowmeter right off the bat?
Reply:my outlook is if you buy a machine on the net you take a huge risk using it for a tool write off since you most likely don't pay your state sales tax..........Be my luck to get an audit......So I but from my LWS  and pay whatever price they extend me.......Your gonna make money with it so why pinch pennies?     That's my regular approach....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock