Diesel engine drive. How many hours are too many?

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I've been contemplating buying a diesel engine drive.I see a lot for sale that are about 5 years old and have 3000 to 4000 hours on them.  Most of these are selling for roughly half of the new price.The manufacturers claim 10,000 hours before any overhaul is needed, but that's the engine.  What about the rest of the welder.How many hours are too many before you expect to have lots of problems?I know this depends a lot on how the welder was treated (only stored inside versus left out in the sun and rain).Is half of new price the right ballpark for something with 4000 hours and in clean condition?Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Hello AndyA, in all honesty, it's all about what the market will bear. If everyone out there figures that their used machines are worth X amount of dollars and these prices are consistent, then you are tasked with making a decision in the same fashion that you are right now. You are asking the right questions with regard to remaining service life, etc. Can you justify paying twice the price for a new machine when your needs don't require a theoretically flawlessly working machine? Probably not, at the same time you don't want to purchase a machine and find that 2 weeks from now it takes a puke on you and the cost for repair sends it to the junk yard or to "parting out" heaven. If time allows, use it, and try to carefully check out what's available in the used arena. Ideally you would like to make a "barn find", a machine that has only been used a couple times a month and stored inside and meticulously cared for. They are actually out there yet it is a rare occasion when I am the one to find one. Usually it's someone else that's bragging about their "find" and I'm drooling over it.  Don't count out places such as Reddi-Arc, they cycle their used inventory out after a few years of use or so and even though people might argue that these machines are used hard they are also well cared for much of the time because this upkeep is paid for by the users. Good luck on your task and best of luck, I imagine others will have really good suggestions to contribute to your question as well. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:There's SA200's that have had multiple engine rebuilds and/or exchanges. Red-D-Arc usually gives a warranty and will load test the machine for you. They also have reconditioned machines where they've gone through them completely. I think half price with 4000 hours is a little high but it depends on the particular machine and engine. Some engines are less desirable. Old SA200's sell for a lot more than what they cost new if they're in working shape and a lot more if they've been completely rebuilt and/or improved.
Reply:10 000 hrs is about max for a diesel. A gas motor machines life is around half that at 5000 hrs. Rental machines usually have decent service records. Some rental machines have had very light use. Some have been run hard.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I'm self employed and have never owned a new welder. On the welder end the only thing there is to "wear out" is a bearing and if it's a generator it will have some brushes to maintain. If it's an inverter who knows when the electronics will fail? As far as price goes there is a big difference between what the machines are listed at and what they may actually sell for. I personally think the internet has made many think that there machine is worth a lot more than it is just because of the asking prices they see or they are using prices from outside there market area. Good luck with your search.
Reply:i would look at operating speed to and factor that in.a diesel trailblazer or ranger screams at high speed but sa/sae/sam all turn less than 2k rpm if im not mistaken.vantage/ big blue im not sure of operating speed but i think its pretty high.for a used machine, you cant really beat a big grey lincoln. low rpm, adequate cooling, and few circuit boards. plus they all seem to run fairly popular industrial motors so parts and service are quite easy.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Some of the Lincolns ran Bedford engines and other makes that weren't very popular. Miller had some White diesels and Telydyne/Continental for a while that were OK but not as liked as more common diesels. Kubota, Perkins and Duetz are popular in welders. Diesels are made to work. Having a big diesel and letting it idle for long periods or only burning small rods can be worse than cranking it up and making it snort. Obviously an 1800 or less RPM engine should last longer than a 3600 RPM engine but some diesels will go 15,000 hours or more if looked after.
Reply:When it is time for most industrial diesels to be rebuilt they generally have another 10k hours in them so you don't have to retire the welder just because the engine is tired. Most of the lawn mower units you can buy a new engine cheaper than a rebuild unless you can do the work in house.
Reply:I run an SA300D machine. It has 4500 hours on it now. Its always been stored outside with no cover on it. This machine has the continental engine in it and gets serviced every 250 hours. Aside having to repair a cracked muffler, It's been a great machine with absolutely no problems. I have no complaints about the diesel engine. Hope this helps!Last edited by Burnt Glove; 02-02-2015 at 09:04 PM.
Reply:My rule of thumb with diesel engines has always been about 6000hrs.  After that, I expect some trouble.  It will either have problems soon, or it could run another 6000hrs with no real issues.  It's a gamble.  BUT, and this is a big BUT...........most of my experience has been with larger diesel engines.Last edited by farmersamm; 02-02-2015 at 09:04 PM.Reason: spelling"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by 92dlxmani would look at operating speed to and factor that in.a diesel trailblazer or ranger screams at high speed but sa/sae/sam all turn less than 2k rpm if im not mistaken.vantage/ big blue im not sure of operating speed but i think its pretty high..
Reply:Thanks for all the input.Sounds like the consensus is "you need a diesel engine drive". The wishlist:Low rpm10kw of electrical powerAble to run around 150 amps and 3kw of electrical simultaneously.CV modeI think wishlist narrows me down to big blues and vantages.  I've got a lot of other miller stuff and haven't had any problems out of any of it.  So I'm leaning in toward the big blue direction.I don't have an immediate need, so I think I'll hold my cash and look for a good deal to jump on.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:the millers are a nice package if cv is a necessity. and hey, i just learned that red-d-arc is made by miller so. . . . ..united rentals sells big-blue millers in my area pretty cheap too. one of our rig guys bought one and loves it!i still think a big, grey lincoln is the best bet for longevity though. no worries about weight or electrical programming, just a tried and true genset behind an over-sized motorbosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:I have heard of Kubota's in Red-D-Arc rental machines going over 9000 hours and not had anything done to them and still going strong. The Red-D-Arc D300K, I think, has a set speed and no idle control but it runs less than 1800 RPM I believe.
Reply:lol i have a red-d-arc D300K that has the kubota with a busted block where a rod came loose at 4400 hours,  im not ruling out complete lube oil failure but still.    I LOVE my vantage 500's  Never had one let me down when it counted, run big FCAW on the leads an XMT350 running big FCAW on the aux power, plus lights, chargers, and another smaller inverter welding metal deck.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:The manufacturer warrants the engine for 10,000 hours.  I generally find that diesel engines in generator applications usually run to 24,000 hours without issue.  I run a fleet of boats with mostly John Deere engines for generators.  All of them are over 17,000 hours at the moment.  Our parent company plans to replace the 6081 series engines at 34,000 hours.  I don't think they will make it but still, 10,000 hours isn't that much for any constant speed engine.  The rotary fuel pumps on smaller diesel engines are usually toast at 15k hours so if your engine is getting sluggish change that out and chances are it will run like new again.I am a fan of the 15k hour overhaul.  I know the 6-71 Detroit well and nothing is more frustrating than having to rebuild an engine that still runs great even at 40-50k hours.  Yeah it still runs well but I can't in good conscious return it to service because the crank is shot and the liners have eaten away at the block.  If you stop and rebuild it it keeps everything fresh.  If you run it 'till its dead it becomes a throw-away.Last edited by 76GMC1500; 02-03-2015 at 06:09 AM.