What weave for 7018ac horizontal?

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I can do pretty well with 7018AC going vertical up, using a zig zag or Z pattern and not lingering in the middle. The bead is a little peaky, but is OK and is getting better.  Horizontal (e.g. going across a flat surface, like in a horizontal butt weld) is OK, that is, I can make an even, consistent bead, but it's bottom heavy - it seems to "sag" downwards.  I know 7018AC is "runny" compared to fast-freeze rods like 6011, but is there any way to do this better? A different weave pattern?Thanks-RuarkLincoln 3200HDHobart Stickmate LX235TWECO Fabricator 211i
Reply:On horizontal, I sometimes use a "U" shaped motion with the pause at the tops, constant movement on the bottom.If it's in a groove I just run straight stringers and use multiple ones if needed.Point up about 5 degrees off 90.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:RuarkNo weave or oscillation - run stringers.  Maintain the shortest arc that welds, and modulate with travel speed and stick angle.  Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERRORuarkNo weave or oscillation - run stringers.  Maintain the shortest arc that welds, and modulate with travel speed and stick angle.  Opus
Reply:Hmmmm.  When welding flat with 7018ac, I run straight stringers. I assumed it'd make "saggy beads" so didn't try it horizontal.  I tried the "U" Dave suggested and it really worked well.  Will continue experimenting. Pictures later.-RuarkLincoln 3200HDHobart Stickmate LX235TWECO Fabricator 211i
Reply:Stringers. If you must weave, I guess you would pause longer at the top, whip it down and around and pause at the top again..
Reply:RuarkSpare everyone and acquire a copy of: The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding, by Lincoln Electric, available new at your LWS, or on the Web. This reference is rife with questions to all answers.Opus
Reply:Never weave a horizontal weld with 7018. Always run stringers straight across.Hold the rod square to the weld joint area, lower your hand a wee bit which points the end of the rod slightly up. Then run your stringers. If you are having to run multi passes, run the bottom pass first and stack the next passes on top of each other using the same rod angle with each pass.Be sure on the top pass you hold a very short arc to prevent undercut of the parent metal.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeNever weave a horizontal weld with 7018. Always run stringers straight across.
Reply:If your welding a horizontal weld, you want to run your weld horizontally. 7018 is not a rod you want to weave up and down when welding horizontally. You will end up burying slag if your inexperienced and welding like that with 7018.  You also risk lots of undercut to the parent metal weaving 7018 when welding horizontally.  You can avoid all that by running stringers. The only time I weave with 7018 is welding vertical up. I do hold a structural stick welding ticket with the CWB which was done with 1/8 7018 rod. I see your using an ac welder, that's not helping you. Welding out of position is much more forgiving with a dc welder.Last edited by snoeproe; 07-21-2013 at 10:44 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERRORuarkSpare everyone and acquire a copy of: The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding, by Lincoln Electric, available new at your LWS, or on the Web. This reference is rife with questions to all answers.Opus
Reply:RuarkThe reason you can't find 'horzontal weave' in:   The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding - Lincoln,is because the book only prints certifiable results.  It doesn't waste ink on hypothetics, or dilettantes. Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by RuarkI have it. Nothing in there about horizontal weave patterns.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammThe "Bible" is THE best source of technical info.  It's a must have.If I recall, there is allowance for a small amount of oscillation in overhead horizontal.  (You'll find this in the section somewhere, it's been ages since I read that particular section).  I found that this helped enormously when working overhead.  By small, I MEAN TINY, and don't leave the face of the puddle.  It helps build a nice bead profile
Reply:While not trying to argue with codes - here is what one textbook says.(IF I weave, I prefer the small "U" to the "sawtooth" shown - easier for me)Dave J. Attached ImagesDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Not sure what "textbook" that came from. In school I was taught stick welding by a highly skilled boilermaker. We were taught to run stringers when welding horizontally with 7018.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeNot sure what "textbook" that came from. In school I was taught stick welding by a highly skilled boilermaker. We were taught to run stringers when welding horizontally with 7018.
Reply:OK, here are some pics. I did these welds in kind of a hurry - I was running out of daylight. They're with 1/8"  7018AC, 125 amps. About 5" long.  Horizontal on 1/4" vertical plate. Hobart Stickmate 235AC.Keep in mind this is the second time in my life I've run 7018AC horizontal, so they're not perfect!  The top bead was with the rod perpendicular to the plate, but angled downward 5-10 degrees, as is commonly advised.The bottom bead was angled about 20 degrees forward, like you'd angle it when welding flat, in addition to the 5 degree drop.The top bead seems better. The bottom bead, with the added forward angle, seems to "sag" a little more. I don't know how much it shows in these pictures, but it's also a little peakier and narrower. It also has a very slight undercut along the upper edge.Although I ran both beads at the same speed, I felt like the bottom one wanted to run a little slower. Comments?   -RuarkLincoln 3200HDHobart Stickmate LX235TWECO Fabricator 211i
Reply:Originally Posted by RuarkInteresting that you use the words "never" which suggests it's some kind of big no-no.  Care to expand a little?  I haven't done it yet, by the way, but will in the next day or two, and post pics. Thanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeNot sure what "textbook" that came from.
Reply:By "slight weave" I take it to mean a VERY slight weave, if it's referring to 7018. As in, not weaving outside of the size of the puddle like you would vertical up. I've done a slight up and down motion filling in a 2G pipe with a small gap but the weave is never bigger than the puddle itself. It's more to hit the edges of the bevel and prevent wagon tracks.But I'm hardly an expert. To me it was just a "what if I did this instead..." moment.
Reply:To me, a slight weave is more of a slight oscillation of the end of the rod. Like I stated earlier, the only time I run a true weave with 7018 is welding vertical up.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeTo me, a slight weave is more of a slight oscillation of the end of the rod. Like I stated earlier, the only time I run a true weave with 7018 is welding vertical up.
Reply:I've just realized "weave" and "oscillate" are not interchangeable. >_>
Reply:RuarkRunning non-shouldered horizontal beads is not good practice.A real weld would be in a designedjoint  ie. lap, open root, single or double vee with backing a strap . . . . Welding on an open plane doesn'tprovide support that is found in a joint.For practice, beads should lay or lapon the previous bead for support.OpusOriginally Posted by OPUS FERRORuarkRunning non-shouldered horizontal beads is not good practice.Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by RuarkWell, it's pretty close to what I am most likely to be doing: horizontal butt joints.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveStringers are good.  Slight movement (weave or circles) is taught in some schools in addition to them.7018 is a fill-freeze rod and a low hydrogen rod.6010/6011 are fast-freeze rods.Dave J.