Question for hand rail builders

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I was faxed the specs for a simple handrail that someone needs made in my area.  1 1/2" OD pipe, 14 posts, 4' on center spacing, no turns, just a straight rail - no problem.  Until I read this... "Sink posts to 21" minimum" in the concrete slab.  Say what?  The concrete is 36" thick!  So a core bit is out.  Unless I drill 4" at a time, break it up and clean out, then drill some more.  What a headache.  The largest SDS bit I can find is 1 1/2".  I'm calling first thing in the morning and making sure that "21" wasn't supposed to be "12".  But still, seems pretty deep for a simple handrail that only protects a 12" drop off.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:That sounds like pre pour instructions.  I'd think a flange with come tap cons or red heads would be sufficient to hold most handrails.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I agree.  if it says 21" deep then it has to be pre-pour.  A flange and redheads will easily hold the rail I would think.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingI agree.  if it says 21" deep then it has to be pre-pour.  A flange and redheads will easily hold the rail I would think.
Reply:Question for JC'sWelding:Are you ever going to bid/take on a job that you don't immediately run to the board and ask "HOW DO I DO IT?"You asked a while back about why I came down on you.  Here's a prime example.You clearly stated a while back that "you were just a little guy doing small jobs the other welders in the area wern't interested in".  To that I call BS.  You're taking work away from the pro's because you lack training, have inadequate equipment, and probably are willing to work for peanuts. (or bananas)Some of the jobs you've asked about sure sound like they'd be appealing/profitable for a "professional welder", something it seems you can only aspire to.You still want to throw out the BS about having continuing maintence contracts with a MacDonalds operator who has 20 stores and tell me no "professional" is interested.  Nice try at BS.It's jacklegs like you that make it tough on the professionals who are trying to do things right and make a decent living.You want to tell me that it doesn't make the hair on the back of your neck stand up when you see a guy drive by with a $400 pressure washer and a cardboard sign taped to the door of his pickup advertising "Mobile Pressure Washing---Cheap".That's where I'm coming from.  To better understand the undercurrent here, you need to go back and read the OP's posts for the last 3 months (all nearly 700 of them).  I've never seen anyone who knew what they were doing ask so many "basic" (being nice) questions.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Need to drill 21" in concrete... Air drill / rock drill. You can go 8-12 feet + if needed.
Reply:Sundown...Whatever....  Just quit reading my posts then.  Problem solved. I'm so over you.  I have researched all your past posts.  You hardly every have anything nice to say about anything, ever.  I wonder what makes you such a bitter, hateful person.  You are nothing but a harassment to everyone.  Have a nice day, grump. Last edited by JC'sWelding; 07-21-2009 at 11:21 PM.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingSundown...Whatever....  Just quit reading my posts then.  Problem solved. I'm so over you.  I have researched all your past posts.  You hardly every have anything nice to say about anything, ever.  I wonder what makes you such a bitter, hateful person.  You are nothing but a harassment to everyone.  Have a nice day, grump.
Reply:There are core bits made this long. I have some for my smaller corebore brand drill and all the ones I have for my big hilti are 24" long. I doubt anyone would ever know if they were only 12" deep.
Reply:I talked to the architects today.  They approved my plan.  They originally wanted the posts set 21' while the slab was poured.  Just as I figured.  They called around and found an outfit that could drill the holes for $75 each, so they decided against that.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:jc, do you have insurance to cover your welding?
Reply:sundiown 111 is one of my faviorites..he knows what hes talking about and cracks me up.. when i get even  older and grumpier im gonna be like him...
Reply:Sounds like you got a real friend in sundown there, JC. I think you are handling his criticism well. I wouldn't worry about that. You have to start somewhere. The stupidest question is the one that goes unasked. I always try to take peoples opinions w/ a grain of salt. We all have a way of getting things done. In todays world if you want to get in to a field of business you have to fight and kick your way. If that means pi$$ing someone off well, darn. Maybe he wishes he was as busy and eager as you... or even me. Forums are for people to use as  sounding boards. You get lots of answers, but its up to the individual to make the right decision. The more feedback you get the better you feel about making YOUR decision. This is why I usually lurk instead of posting opinions. We all know a big head or two...now don't we.ouch
Reply:Wow....I"m sure Sundown would just love me. I do work for others for free! Just check one or two of my other posts. The "Customer" us usually a friend that knows I'm new to welding and just learning......who can say they arn't still learning? Anyway.....Before I attempt anything, I do my homework and then have my ideas checked by professional welders. So far the most dangerous thing I've welded is a campground bbq. Its to place above an open campfire. You guys here have helped me with questions and even talked me out of projects I'm not yet ready for. But if I stop asking questions, I'll never be able to do them.  P.S. I'm looking into Community educations Classes so I don't wear out my welcome with my welding friends.
Reply:Sundown means well, and I told him before that I really do listen to him and appreciate his comments.  Yes, I ask a lot of questions, but that's how I learn.  Been that way my whole life.  Sometimes I ask a question already knowing the answer, just to hear what a person has to say.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingSundown means well, and I told him before that I really do listen to him and appreciate his comments.  Yes, I ask a lot of questions, but that's how I learn.  Been that way my whole life.  Sometimes I ask a question already knowing the answer, just to hear what a person has to say.
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingI was faxed the specs for a simple handrail that someone needs made in my area.  1 1/2" OD pipe, 14 posts, 4' on center spacing, no turns, just a straight rail - no problem.  Until I read this... "Sink posts to 21" minimum" in the concrete slab.  Say what?  The concrete is 36" thick!  So a core bit is out.  Unless I drill 4" at a time, break it up and clean out, then drill some more.  What a headache.  The largest SDS bit I can find is 1 1/2".  I'm calling first thing in the morning and making sure that "21" wasn't supposed to be "12".  But still, seems pretty deep for a simple handrail that only protects a 12" drop off.
Reply:i don't mind a person learning, asking questions, doing a little job for a friend, neighbor, or family member and even being reimbursed a little for it.  BUT as i understand jc this isn't the case.  he is a self exclaimed welder who has welded for 20 something years and then turns around and "asks" questions that even a greenhorn grinder hand would know.  even this isn't my concern.  my concern is the seemingly illegitimate nature jc is pursuing in obtaining work.  jc, if you haven't obtained all your credentials, i.e. certs/licenses/insurances/taxes, in order,  then you are illegitimate.  i am intentionally abstaining from inflammatory names like thief, hack, liar, etc. so that you will understand i am not flaming you.  if you are illegitimate then do what it takes, man up and get your act together, protect your family, business, and customers and go make an honest living.
Reply:Sundown and Scott Young are dead right.If you want to be on the next level you have to ALL the things to be on the next level.  You never know someday you might want to build sidecars.Bill
Reply:Here is the machine and equipment we use on a roof. We can core that hole in under five minutes, rain shine, snow, rain, ice or heat wave. Ha-ha.We customized this machine so that we can just throw the ball valve, on and off, and leave our gate valve setting where we want it. That saves time. We normally use a ratchet wrench instead of vice grips, but we did not have the ratchet wrench with us. Ha-ha. That looks like a 2"x4" we used to stand on. To keep weight on the machine. Those little valves on the hose and or at each connection are a plus too. If you bust a hose it is nice to be able to shut it off without going all the way back to the main valve. Sometimes that is down a ladder, or elevator, and through doorways or other obstacles. Cores like this below, that are from 5 to 7 inches deep, I use a hand held Eibenstock core drill. It has a very high speed that just blasts through stone and cement. But you need a little practice before you can just, blow holes really fast without burning clutches, and or breaking and jamming bits, or chipping the edges of the stone around the hole. It has a maximum depth of about eight inches. After that and you waste more time getting it un- jammed. This stone is extra hard to drill. I believe it is a form of granite. Compared to common blue stone this can take two or three times as long.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:The issues with this board is that the people that destroy a "seasoned" veteran for asking an apparently simple question are the same type of people that gripe when a noobie asks the same type question and tells them " If you don't know, leave it to a professional " or " that question has been asked a thousand times." That's the only thing that bothers me.  I think its contagious...I find myself thinking that way sometimes but fight the urge because the more I learn,  the more I find out that I have more to learn.So don't worry about asking.  The bible says that there is safety in a multitude of counselors.  and it says that a wise man listens to others advice and the fool listens to his own.  True words whether you live by it or not.Sorry for going off topic to chase that rabbit, so I'll get back on track.If they approved the plan for a flange and red heads,  go for it.  I wouldn't even think twice about the other way.  I would get the flange dimensions from them though. That is the only point of real liability that I can see. If the flanges aren't wide enough they could cause some extra flex and movement.Last edited by lugweld; 07-25-2009 at 10:47 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldThe issues with this board is that the people that destroy a "seasoned" veteran for asking an apparently simple question are the same type of people that gripe when a noobie asks the same type question and tells them " If you don't know, leave it to a professional " or " that question has been asked a thousand times." That's the only thing that bothers me.  I think its contagious...I find myself thinking that way sometimes but fight the urge because the more I learn,  the more I find out that I have more to learn.So don't worry about asking.  The bible says that there is safety in a multitude of counselors.  and it says that a wise man listens to others advice and the fool listens to his own.  True words whether you live by it or not.Sorry for going off topic to chase that rabbit, so I'll get back on track.If they approved the plan for a flange and red heads,  go for it.  I wouldn't even think twice about the other way.  I would get the flange dimensions from them though. That is the only point of real liability that I can see. If the flanges aren't wide enough they could cause some extra flex and movement.
Reply:By these responses, I was thinking for a moment that JC had a contract with NASA.Damn!  Do you guys ever give up?I have personally seen about as many handrails built out of wood as I have steel.  Carpenters have no certification test, so now what?Leave the man alone.  He is on a learning curve just like a lot of you were one time.Now, I have an idea about building a single axle, 28' gooseneck trailer with my 110 mig I need to ask about.  Any suggestions?
Reply:pookie use a wire brush and carb cleaner b4 you weld sorry i had to
Reply:I would not touch that one myself, the drilling that is. I have a good local guy that does core drilling and slab cutting for a price less than that of the agrevation of DIY. Ask around, or google concrete cutting in your area.  I have had holes 2" in diamater cored 36" deep for new coloumn anchor bolts.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."Originally Posted by PookieBy these responses, I was thinking for a moment that JC had a contract with NASA.Damn!  Do you guys ever give up?I have personally seen about as many handrails built out of wood as I have steel.  Carpenters have no certification test, so now what?Leave the man alone.  He is on a learning curve just like a lot of you were one time.Now, I have an idea about building a single axle, 28' gooseneck trailer with my 110 mig I need to ask about.  Any suggestions?
Reply:Originally Posted by PookieBy these responses, I was thinking for a moment that JC had a contract with NASA.Damn!  Do you guys ever give up?I have personally seen about as many handrails built out of wood as I have steel.  Carpenters have no certification test, so now what?Leave the man alone.  He is on a learning curve just like a lot of you were one time.Now, I have an idea about building a single axle, 28' gooseneck trailer with my 110 mig I need to ask about.  Any suggestions?
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott YoungNo carpenters have to have a contractor's license, insurance, building permit, and inspector's stamp for commercial handrails.  also in mississippi they have to be built by the latest ibc (international building code) and the ada code (american disability association) specifications.  i happen to have been a carpenter and contractor for 20 years before changing fields and working with metal.  the problem with the carpentry field is too many hacks will watch hgtv and go buy a hammer and call themselves a carpenter.  the illegal labor is killing the carpentry trades and the insurance is skyrocketing beyond reason.  the same thing is happening to the metal trades only hacks go buy a walmart squirt gun and a call themselves a welder.before anyone asks, the profit margin and benefits in the metal trade is why i changed over.  i have welded for my own projects personally for years and then went to work for a welding shop and started at the bottom.  i am still learning and don't profess to know it all, but i do know that a hack in any field is still a hack that will put honest men and women out of work.i don't personally know jc, i like his spunk and get done attitude.  i believe he has a rare trait that all need to take notice of and that is his 'can do' mindset.  he is willing to jump in the deep end with out a life jacket on.  i only point out that he needs to protect his business, family, and customers.  insurance is vitally important.  no one would weld naked.  they use clothes, hood, leather, and gloves to keep from burning themselves.  same is with insurance; it is essential!!!!