Tires and trailers

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There is a lot of knowledge on trailers in this forum,so I thought I would ask this here.My wife and her dad bought this trailer for our skid steer while she was in North Dakota and I was in Texas.  Yesterday and today was the first chance I got to spend any time with it.  I noticed that it seemed to have an unusual amount of drag while pulling it empty.  It weighs 1960 pounds empty.  I wouldn't think that should drag it down a lot.  I am pulling it with a 2000 F450 flatbed with a 7.3.  It drags the truck down pulling the trailer empty more than carrying a load of 5-6000 pounds on the truck. I looked at the tires and noticed a couple of things.  First not even two of the tires matched.  The tires on the front are 1 1/2 inches taller than the back set.  A couple of the tires were a little under-inflated.We are running this trailer on the highway back and forth from Texas to North Dakota.  Sometimes it has a 5,000 pound skid steer on it, along with another 500 pounds.Would the mismatched tires cause it to drag like this?What kind of tires would be good to put on this?  It has 15" tires and I know I need trailer tires.Thanks, Attached Images
Reply:I'd get a matching set of new trailer tires for that based on its use and that should help a lot. Getting proper inflation is also paramount. That was what was more than likely causing the drag. but you should also service the bearings and breaks to make sure they are all working properly.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I bought a tri-axle that dragged bad. Got it home and found one brake hung up.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Dave, were they hydraulic or electric? Just curious. I have never run hydraulics. I am tempted.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:Sometimes the electric brakes have hung up on my old trailer.  Usually you will see a little smoke if something is hanging.richey
Reply:I have electric brakes, but they are not hooked up. I don't know anything about them and need to learn how they work.
Reply:You don't give enough info here. What type suspension does the trailer have? Double eye springs or slipper springs? If it has double eye springs with the flat strap equalizer in the middle then different tire size can put it out of alignment. If it has a slipper suspension those tires are close enough to not matter. If a brake was hanging enough to create that much drag you would get smoke. I would start by checking the axle alignment. You can get an idea if your axles are out of alignment by rubbing your hand sideways across the tires, if your hand catches going one way but slides easy the other your axles need alignment. If your hand slides about the same either way the alignment is probly ok. It doesn't take too many miles for the tires to get sharp on one side of the tread if they are out of alignment. If it is out of alignment start by measuring from the center of the coupler to the front spring hangers, they should be within 1/8". Then if it's a double eye suspension measure from the front to back hangers, they are the ones that determine tracking. They should also be within 1/8" side to side. On that suspension the center one is less important. On a slipper type the important measurement is from the front hanger to the center hanger with the rear hanger being less particular.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joker11Dave, were they hydraulic or electric? Just curious. I have never run hydraulics. I am tempted.
Reply:I would think empty you shouldn't even know its behind that truck. Trailer tires usually run more pressure and stiffer sidewalls so they do usually roll with less resistance. If the trailer was used check the brakes, make sure they aren't rusted up from sitting. I had one once that had that problem and the brakes couldn't release properly but didn't drag bad enough to smoke. Good luck!
Reply:What do you need to know? They are fairly simple, you just need a ground and power wire to each wheel and a controller in your truck. If you have a specific question I can walk you through it step by step.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joker11Dave, were they hydraulic or electric? Just curious. I have never run hydraulics. I am tempted.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjYou don't give enough info here. What type suspension does the trailer have? Double eye springs or slipper springs? It has double eye springs a brake was hanging enough to create that much drag you would get smoke. No smokeI would start by checking the axle alignment. You can get an idea if your axles are out of alignment by rubbing your hand sideways across the tires, if your hand catches going one way but slides easy the other your axles need alignment. If your hand slides about the same either way the alignment is probly ok. It doesn't take too many miles for the tires to get sharp on one side of the tread if they are out of alignment. If it is out of alignment start by measuring from the center of the coupler to the front spring hangers, they should be within 1/8". Then if it's a double eye suspension measure from the front to back hangers, they are the ones that determine tracking. They should also be within 1/8" side to side. On that suspension the center one is less important.
Reply:Yeah I'm surprised you were having issues. I've pulled close to 12K behind my 00 F250 with the 7.3 and 3.73 rears and didn't really feel it. It's feels like it's got more "pull" to it than my 08 550 does with the loggy 6.4.  I'd also suspect the brakes or some sort of axle issue..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If you get it up check for worn bushings in the springs and equalizer. That won't likely cause your problem, but it most likely needs attention and is easy to check if it's up.
Reply:Yea, get the wheels off the ground for a free spin to see how they feel. i would look for real trailer tires too , not car tires.
Reply:Trailer tires have the designation ST, whereas light truck tires have LT and P is for passenger tires. We always fill "ST" tires to MAX inflation. I doubt that it is your tires, and probably not your suspension, although they all need to be in good condition. It is usually an internal brake issue, or sometimes bad wiring. I would pick the trailer up, remove the wheels and tear down all of the hubs and deal with it at one time. This is the least painful method I find. Only after they are torn down, can you confirm or refute the possibility of braking issues.It sounds brake related.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Yes it would make it feel like it's dragging. With that long of a trip and your equipments and your safety, go by a new set of trailer tires. Mine that I by are Firestone/ Bridgestone and are 8ply. I run them at 80 psi. Good luckSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:On flat pavement you can put a wheel plate under the jack of the trailer and push it by hand forward and back and see if there is much resistance. Once moving the trailer should roll easy by hand pushing it. This can tell you if you have a bent spindle/wheel out of alignment, bad brake hang up, etc.Like mentioned get the trailer up off the ground and spin each wheel and check for bearing slop. Also make sure the bearings are all greased.
Reply:Where i live there are more trailers than any where else I've ever been.  there are at least two trailer line up shops in town. Most of these trailers are log trailers. But even our car trailer needed alignment a couple years ago. Trailer axles get a lot of rough treatment. When you think about it, on a duel axle trailer every turn is dragging one set of tires sideways. with all the weight of the trailer that is a lot of strain.  Mac
Reply:On the trailer, I'd jack up each side an spin the wheels while brake controller is connected.  You'll immediately see any problems with controller, brakes/bearings, etc...On the truck side is it a Turbo 7.3?  Are you sure it's turbo, I mean are you sure that the turbo is working.  I can easily tell by the whine whether the turbo is working.  If it's not working the sound is totally different (no high pitch whistling).  Are your Up pipes leaking (brown soot around edges) this causes lack of power (I just put bellowed Dorman up pipes in mine).  Is the linkage connected and is the butterfly valve opening (allowing air to flow back down to the exhaust)?   Tim
Reply:I would check for a bent axle, empty it may put the tires in a severe camber situation and the weight actually straightens them back out to a good alignment. What do the tires look like, any obvious wear?
Reply:Tim, my truck is running great and it is a turbo.  You can put 6000 pounds on the bed, and it doesn't feel a thing.  Good questions though.I jacked up each side of the trailer and the wheels will spin freely with no drag.  I bought 4 new 10 ply trailer tires and we will try to get them on tomorrow.  We are also going to see if we can put it on the front end machine and do an alignment on it.If not, I will use my tram gauge and tape measure to see how everything measures out, coming from the hitch.We packed the wheel bearings a couple of months ago.I appreciate everyone's advice.
Reply:I'd look toward brakes at this point. when it was lifted they weren't plugged into the truck were they?There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Good.  As long as you did all the tests with the trailer hooked up (thus the controller and breakaway switch are both operating properly).I have an '00 Excursion and it's the same powerstroke Turbo diesel.  Just remember to change the HPOP (top end) oil every 2nd oil change and your injectors will love you.  Other than the up pipes that leak and a couple sensors the powerstroke is a great engine.
Reply:At this point I do not have a controller hooked up.  I will have to do that when I get back.  The trailer is not going to be loaded very heavy.Tire size shouldnt cause excessive drag, unless they are rubbing.  I'd venture to say that somehow the wiring is fouled up and the electric brakes are being applied, and since its been driven like this they are probably worn pretty bad/out off adjustment.  try unplugging the trailer all together and driving down the road, see if that makes a difference.  If not its likely a hungup trailer brake or bearing ready to **** the bed.Mark
Reply:Originally Posted by tprothmaGood.  As long as you did all the tests with the trailer hooked up (thus the controller and breakaway switch are both operating properly).I have an '00 Excursion and it's the same powerstroke Turbo diesel.  Just remember to change the HPOP (top end) oil every 2nd oil change and your injectors will love you.  Other than the up pipes that leak and a couple sensors the powerstroke is a great engine.
Reply:Take the trailer for a drive of a few miles, then stop.  Run your hand over the tires, bearing caps, brake backing plates etc.  If one part is excessively warm compared to the others like it, that could be where your problem lies.Don't want to get your hands dirty?  Good chance to buy one of those laser infrared thermometers where you just point the red dot at what you want to measure the temp of and the digital display shows the temperature.  I bought one, under $20 on sale at the local Chinese tool emporium (princess auto) and it works fine.  Not sure how accurate  it's display is but it seems plenty good enough to show me the hot spots.  I think you can buy a Fluke for under $100, if you want a more respectable tool.I'll bet 4 matched trailer tires, properly inflated (maximum air pressure spec'd on tire) will do wonders."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:I got the tires on today and am going to hook it up tomorrow.  We want to check it when we plug up the lights to make sure there isn't any current going to the wrong place.  Then we are going for a test drive.  I'll give a report tomorrow.Thanks everyone for all of the advice.
Reply:Cool. It is hard to interpret trouble over the net, like over the phone. It is far simpler in person. I finished packing a triple axle just a while ago, those were the heavy drums.  The front axle would not lock up while the tires were in the air and I had 12 volts direct from a shop battery to the brake lead. I traced it back to each backing plate at the wiring and made repairs. It turned out that the customer wanted the fronts disconnected, but failed to mention that to us. Selah. Last edited by tanglediver; 11-19-2013 at 09:40 PM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:The new tires fixed it.  Except for the trailer bouncing like a ball unloaded, you can't really tell it is there. I plugged in the lights, stepped on the brakes, jacked the trailer up, and spun the wheels.  No drag from the trailer brakes.  Just had to check in case there was some bleed from the lights.  When I get back, I will hook up the brakes.Thanks everyone for the advice.
Reply:I would check the wiring over real good. It's possible that after a bump that the wiring is shorting from lights to a brake wire. Make sure the break away plug hasn't been pulled and re-set. Sometimes they never shut off after being pulled. Jack it back up again and spin the new tires with a block or something close to the tread and see if one of the new tires isn't out of round. It happens a lot with trailer tires and they need to give you a new tire. When you buy the controller buy a quality controller not a cheapo. I was a shop manager at a trailer dealer for a long time and in my time there we saw a whole lot of out of round new trailer tires. Also running drasticly different sized tires front and rear will create some drag but I wouldn't think it would cause as much drag as much as you are feeling.
Reply:I doubt that the brakes are causeing that much drag and if they were the hubs would be getting very hot.  Do you feel your hubs after you've pulled it for a while?  If not, its a good practice to get into.  It can alert you to brake and bearing problems.What brand and model skid loader have you been pulling with that trailer?  It might weigh more than you think.  I'd bet the axles are either out of alignment or possibly even bent.Miller 250x & Lincoln V205-TSmith Oxy-Prop torch
Reply:Many people run trailer tires full pressure all the time. Personally, I don't. it causes the trailer to bounce when unloaded like you mentioned. If i'm running empty I'll bring them down to 32-35 lbs or so just like a passenger tire. This lets the tires move a little more to absorb the bumps better causing less bounce. I'm not saying running max pressure is a bad idea. It prevents people from forgetting to up the pressure when they have a load on the trailer, but I don't run them max pressure when unloaded. but then again, I'm not hauling stuff back and forth every day.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Tim says: "I have an '00 Excursion and it's the same powerstroke Turbo diesel. Just remember to change the HPOP (top end) oil every 2nd oil change and your injectors will love you. Other than the up pipes that leak and a couple sensors the powerstroke is a great engine."VPT says: "The HPOP reservoirs oil is exchanged like every 30 seconds. Without the lpop feeding the hpop reservoir it would run dry in 15 seconds."True. But when changing the oil most people would not leave a quart of old oil in the system.   There are people on this forum that power wash and wax their welders!Just saying...
Reply:Originally Posted by tprothmaTim says: "I have an '00 Excursion and it's the same powerstroke Turbo diesel. Just remember to change the HPOP (top end) oil every 2nd oil change and your injectors will love you. Other than the up pipes that leak and a couple sensors the powerstroke is a great engine."VPT says: "The HPOP reservoirs oil is exchanged like every 30 seconds. Without the lpop feeding the hpop reservoir it would run dry in 15 seconds."True. But when changing the oil most people would not leave a quart of old oil in the system.   There are people on this forum that power wash and wax their welders!Just saying...
Reply:We have found tires already mounted on rims from our trailer supplier are cheaper than going to a tire store. Not sure on the quality difference, but they usually rot from the sun before they wear out.
Reply:When I got new tires for our TT I went with bias ply for a few reasons. Stiffer sidewalls for better stability, nicer ride (no bouncy), and when they blow they don't come apart and ruin the trailer.I also stepped up the wheel size from 13" to 15" to raise tire load range and also stability again. I am working on eliminating sway.This has been the second season with them and I like them very much over the standard radial tire.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTI can understand all that and yes it has been debated over and over again on the ford truck forums. Personally it doesn't bother me at all to leave the quart in the reservoir. The oil cooler holds around a half a quart as well, lifters all hold a little bit, pockets in the heads hold some, oil pump holds some, the rails in the heads hold up to a quart or more for the injectors, it goes on and on. I change my oil on every vehicle at 3000 miles. This is well before what blackstone says which helps me not worry about the little oil left in the motor. Personally I am a maintenance kind of guy and stay on top of it for everything. I can understand some peoples need to change as much oil as they can giving them a warm and fussy feeling.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWWait I'm not quite sure what you mean by changing the oil.  Don't you just keep dumping more in to replace what runs out? I though that was part of the factory installed antirust system that kicked in after a certain length of time on most vehicles!