Haveing a problem 275 Pecision Tig

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We have 20 of these machines they ar no older than a year and a half old they are in a school sating. The rep, is saying that each machine needs a copper rod in the grownd . They are now grounded thought the building. I just can't seem to get a start answer on why they keep backing down . We sent three out on warrantee one went down the same day we got it back. Has anyone had problems with this machine? We have a large company in town here having same .
Reply:"why they keep backing down" What does this mean? the amps go down all by them selves?if the rep says they need a copper grounding rod, just get a $70 hammer drill from harbor freight and drill a hole into the concrete by each machine, and pound rod in the ground. Probably easier said then done in a school red tape burarcracy.Only problem I've had is the insulation came off a wire by the spark gap access door. Air gas is my local repair center and they suck. didn't even fix the issue, just pushed wire back was their solution.
Reply:The boards keep going out. We sent two out replacing the boards and they just keep blowing out.
Reply:I have absolutely no facts to back this statement up...But I think the whole copper grounding rod excuse is hogwash.Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Originally Posted by anumay64The boards keep going out. We sent two out replacing the boards and they just keep blowing out.
Reply:those boards are expensive! what happens when a board goes bad? smoke drifts out? amp display goes blank? machine fan stops? no power at all?I need to know so when my machine dies eventually I can trouble shoot it better.
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbI would set up some cameras and see if your fine students arent screwing around on purpose to destroy them..A friend that is a school teacher said, if the military wanted to test durability of anything..put it in a school and the students will destroy it...
Reply:Do the machines share a common steel table with other machines?If so, intentional or unintentional grounding of the workpiece to a shared tablewith another machine(s) running could cause problems.Blackbird
Reply:Anumay, Your experience seems to match the experience of the local industrial Arts co-op (The Crucible in Oakland, Ca).The instructor there said that they rarely had all 10 (or was it 12???) workstations available at the same time for his TIG workshops.   There was always at least one machine down for repairs.I am not an expert when it comes to the NEC electrical code, but I'm pretty sure that it says that there will be one and only one point of ground in the building.   Providing independent grounds for each machine may result in injury if there is a short somewhere.  Heat, static, vibration and improper voltage are what kills electronics.   In a welding shop you can add conductive dust to that list.  Students may simply be failing to observe duty cycles or otherwise misusing the machines.  The electrical system may be overloaded, causing voltage sags ( The 275 PT draws a LOT of current).  The machines may just have a design flaw. Good luck with them.   Dan----------------------------Measure twice.  Weld once.  Grind to size.MIG:  Lincoln SP100 TIG/STICK:  AHP Alphatig 200X
Reply:Originally Posted by John TI have absolutely no facts to back this statement up...But I think the whole copper grounding rod excuse is hogwash.
Reply:Originally Posted by dbstooAnumay, Your experience seems to match the experience of the local industrial Arts co-op (The Crucible in Oakland, Ca).I am not an expert when it comes to the NEC electrical code, but I'm pretty sure that it says that there will be one and only one point of ground in the building.   Providing independent grounds for each machine may result in injury if there is a short somewhere.   Dan
Reply:HOnestly I would sell them all while they are still under warranty and get inverter machines that draw less power.the installation manual states 125amp braker for single phase 220v electricity, that's a ton of power needed, the electricity bill savings by themselves would pay off in the long run, even if the machines were only run on lower amps.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderHOnestly I would sell them all while they are still under warranty and get inverter machines that draw less power.the installation manual states 125amp braker for single phase 220v electricity, that's a ton of power needed, the electricity bill savings by themselves would pay off in the long run, even if the machines were only run on lower amps.
Reply:lincoln wouldn't send a rep out so I had to drag that 800 lb beast out of my workshop, put it on trialer and make hour round trip to service center air gASS, if this school has the same hassle, the warranty is more trouble than it is worth! takes 2 to 3 guys to get it safely on my trailer, don't have a fork lift either.
Reply:Originally Posted by John TI have absolutely no facts to back this statement up...But I think the whole copper grounding rod excuse is hogwash.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderlincoln wouldn't send a rep out so I had to drag that 800 lb beast out of my workshop, put it on trialer and make hour round trip to service center air gASS, if this school has the same hassle, the warranty is more trouble than it is worth! takes 2 to 3 guys to get it safely on my trailer, don't have a fork lift either.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonAbsolutely the truth. A welder should be no more complicated to energize than a coffee maker.
Reply:Originally Posted by anumay64We have 20 of these machines they ar no older than a year and a half old they are in a school sating. The rep, is saying that each machine needs a copper rod in the grownd . They are now grounded thought the building. I just can't seem to get a start answer on why they keep backing down . We sent three out on warrantee one went down the same day we got it back. Has anyone had problems with this machine? We have a large company in town here having same .
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1I would get together with the local company you mentioned and go directly to Lincoln- bypass the Rep.
Reply:It could be the schools power was never designed for multiple 100 amp+ single phase circuits. 20 machines, Lincoln should be looking after them. How many students are going to want to buy a Lincoln if the ones they used in school had major problems?
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbI would set up some cameras and see if your fine students arent screwing around on purpose to destroy them..A friend that is a school teacher said, if the military wanted to test durability of anything..put it in a school and the students will destroy it...
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveIt could be the schools power was never designed for multiple 100 amp+ single phase circuits. 20 machines, Lincoln should be looking after them. How many students are going to want to buy a Lincoln if the ones they used in school had major problems?
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonSounds like your problem is AirgASS. Will they not deliver gasses out to you as well?
Reply:"It could be the schools power was never designed for multiple 100 amp+ single phase circuits"this would be my guess as well.
Reply:If it's the same two machines I'd say it's Lincolns problem (and the repair center). If you are a Vo-Tech outfit with several shops containing large hydraulics or high voltage servos those machines need to have the ground removed from the building plus have their own clamp to ground on the neutral to help with spikes.This was a problem in the 80-90's in many large shops where inductive current devices could dump 350,000+ volt spikes to the neutral. Sometimes taking a bunch of CNC stuff down (they didn't have brain boxes in welders back then).Also if you have 480/277/240 from the same source the power can get pretty dirty depending on what's going on.Good luckMattHave you guys checked the input line voltage? Perhaps it's too high?The idea behind the grounding rod is that it has the least resistance. So the grounding rod goes into the ground (duh) and the negative from the welder goes to the rod then another one from the rod to the table. This also prevents you from ever being shocked if you sweaty. That's the theory at least.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleThe idea behind the grounding rod is that it has the least resistance. So the grounding rod goes into the ground (duh) and the negative from the welder goes to the rod then another one from the rod to the table. This also prevents you from ever being shocked if you sweaty. That's the theory at least.
Reply:The idea of a local ground rod is to control HF. HF is a high voltage radio frequency of around 2MHZ. You don't want the HF from machine A going into machine B. The idea is connect the ground rod to the welder case and then to the table. The Normal HF path is out the torch and back the work lead. there are filters inside the case to control this HF. The wire to the rod just gives HF another place to safely go. But is the HF comes from a different machine ,The filters can't steer it back to the HF generator in the other machine, so it goes places it is not supposed to go. If you have booths very close together, then one rod between two stations might be enough. Check first with your school, see if there is an instructor that knows how to use a Dranitz Line monitor. These can be rented. You connect it to you breaker panel that feeds  all the welders. It can monitor line voltage and current and record in live action or event.You can even watch the screen and hit the record button manually to record what happened and look at it later. OR Find an industrial electrical co. or a company that works with electric motor drive systems. Call around and ask if they have a Dranitz or know some one who does.The Drantiz system allows you to see what is going on in the electrical system, Single or three phase power systems. Looks for dips and spikes and bad sign wave.I used one to find out why the lights were flickering and the voltage regulator motor was going crazy on a AM radio transmitter. When the new standby generator was used. Found a bad signwave. It had a large flat spot at the zero crossing.This will let you find out if you need to make changes to the electrical system or just install a few ground rods. Ground rods are copper plated steel.
Reply:See if you can find out what failed on the pcbs. Then call Lincoln tech support and ask for Bill Steller. Read him the report and ask him what might have caused it and what can be done to keep it from happening again. If the repair center won't help. then call Lincoln warranty dept and ask them to look it up. You will need the machine serial number and code number. You can also try the "ask the expert" on the Lincoln web site. Request them to look it up and come back with a recommendation.