Why isn't 7014 ever mentioned?

admin

I've noticed that 7014 rod is hardly ever talked about.  Why is that?  It's one of two rods that run well on my limited 50amp buzz box and I like it so far.  Also, it seems that statistically it would be really good.  Almost as good as 7018 for most things unless you need low hydrogen and you don't have to store it in an oven which is nice.  It does take more amps than 7018 though, but you can run it on AC or DC which is a plus.Below is an example of what I'm talking about (taken from http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...rticles16.html)Q: What type of rod should I use for general work on steel?A: Common electrodes used for general work include 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018 and 7024, each of which has specific properties: 6010 electrodes penetrate deeply, while 6013 electrodes penetrate less. For much better bead appearance and work on higher strength steels (say for a hitch), use a 7018 rod. For better penetration on thick material, grind the joint to a 30 degree bevel (leave a nickel-width land on the bottom of the groove) and make multiple passes. Alternatively, make the first pass with a 6010 rod, then make a "cap" with a 7018. The 7024 rod is perhaps the easiest to use. Also known as a "drag rod," this electrode's thick flux automatically maintains the correct arc length, which allows you to drag the rod directly along the work piece.
Reply:I'm with you on this.  7014 is my go-to rod cause of no oven, easy to run and very good properties In my area it's also known as a "farmer rod" due to the ease of use. "Too easy - almost runs itself" is what 7018 snobs say.Yes, I do refer to some pros as "snobs" when they look down on people for using a rod that needs no oven.I also call them "stick snobs" when they look down on people for using mig while inside a shop.... Dave J.Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 05-03-2013 at 11:56 AM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I like 7014.  I don't remember it being disparaged.I know one of the places I lived it was impossible to get.  The LWS didn't even know what it was.  The last place I lived they sold tons of it to a couple if the manufacturing shops.  They sold 7014 and 7024 to some of the shops in quantities that staggered my mind.  I would have live to know what they were using them for.
Reply:Most "new stick welder " threads usually at least two or three people minimum suggest running 7014 for guys just starting out learning. It's actually recommended here quite often.As a "pro" there are a number of good reasons to run 7018. One is simply liability. If something fails, whether it's the welders fault or not, you can almost guarantee the opposition will want to bring up in court the fact that almost universally 7018 is selected for "code" work by architects and engineers.  A good part of the reason they choose it is also CYA, since there are any number of tested proven standards for that rod.  Rather than actually do the math, they simply pull it from a chart that lists 7018 based welds. If you don't choose to use it, you almost have to prove it's NOT your fault in court..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Excellent points regarding pro work DSW If I was doing work that required it - I still would use 7018 and store in an oven.  I just like 7014 for general use Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Great insight guys, it's appreciated.  I was just curious as it seems Miller, Lincoln etc hardly ever mention 7014 in their literature.
Reply:I never seen 7014 on a job site. Not sure I ever heard of it until joining some of these welding forums. I did some testing with it, it does run very nice. But not a lot of impact properties! On the fillet weld break test it broke with 10-blows of a 4-pound hammer. Still bent very nice though. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Stick Snobs.......That sounds like a pretty exclusive club Now I have to learn the secret hand shake.... I have run 7014, but its been a long time. Makes pretty beads & you can literally lay it down & watch it weld itself. We actually did that in class,with some jet rod. The instructor laid it on its side & stepped back. Welded quite nice. Of course there's a lot of difference between that & actually welding joints up with it.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749. Makes pretty beads & you can literally lay it down & watch it weld itself. We actually did that in class,with some jet rod. The instructor laid it on its side & stepped back. Welded quite nice.
Reply:When I worked for the compactor company years ago we used tons of 7014 to weld sheets to frames, for enclosures. It welds real nice downhill and it is a very forgiving rod.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI never seen 7014 on a job site. Not sure I ever heard of it until joining some of these welding forums. I did some testing with it, it does run very nice. But not a lot of impact properties! On the fillet weld break test it broke with 10-blows of a 4-pound hammer. Still bent very nice though.
Reply:Here is the list of my fillet weld testing, which we all know is not very scientific, but trust me I've swung a single jack 10s of thousand times more than Lanse can ever dream to. 6013 broke with only 3-blows of a 4-pound hammer. 6011 = 8-blows.7014 = 10-blows.6010 5P-Plus = 10-blows.7018 cold never seen the inside of an oven = 18-blows.7018 right out of the oven = 23-blows.This one surprised me the most! L-56 = 29-blows.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:My  first rod is 6011.  I have a fair bit more than I'll likely need in the immediate future.I have two kinds  of 6011 one is  from Lincoln and one no name brand. The Lincoln 6011 electrode on my TA 211 is just so easy to run. The other is not so much. But now I just gotta get some 7013 and 7014Hey~!! It's a hobby. It's not supposed to make sense~!!
Reply:If you want a really fun rod to run, see if you can get your hands on some 7024 and run it in the flat position..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIf you want a really fun rod to run, see if you can get your hands on some 7024 and run it in the flat position.
Reply:If you can flood it into a gap you can really cover a lot of ground,with 7024.The extra metal in the flux does make you crank the welder up a bit more.Nice to run though.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIf you want a really fun rod to run, see if you can get your hands on some 7024 and run it in the flat position.
Reply:Several years ago on the AWS site there were some guys building a very large tank in Texas, they had better luck with 7024 on AC when welding the bottom of the tank.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Didn't he have pix of them doing CAC on it too?
Reply:You dont see 7014 used as frequently as 7018 just because it is not a code spec rod, like 7018 is.For me, I find that 7018 runs better out of position.I also prefer the"low hydrogen" weld deposit that you get with 7018.If i need to lay down some serious weld with high deposition rate, I'll use 7024 in flat or horizontal positions.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeI also prefer the"low hydrogen" weld deposit that you get with 7018.If i need to lay down some serious weld with high deposition rate, I'll use 7024 in flat or horizontal positions.
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeI also prefer the"low hydrogen" weld deposit that you get with 7018.If i need to lay down some serious weld with high deposition rate, I'll use 7024 in flat or horizontal positions.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveTrue of course - but many people do not have a rod oven - without it the low hydrogen properties do not apply....I like 7024 too - crank it up, drag it on the plate, lay some metal down Last time I used it for welding 3" diameter solid pins on flat plate - awesome...Dave J.
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeI have an oven but I also keep 7018 in sealed tubes with desicant in them. There's a huge misconception on this forum that you must keep 7018 in an oven for it to run properly. Truth is, 90% of the folks on this forum wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a 7018rod  thats been sitting out for 6 months and a 7018 thats 20 min out of a rod oven, thats a fact.Those who do code work are well aware of the requirements for 7018. Those who dont do code work, wouldnt know the difference.Back to the 7014, I consider it a junk rod and dont waste my time with it.
Reply:For doing equipment repair 7018 is kingThe rods all repair guys carry 6010 7018 7024  and some hardfacing rods sometimes  7014 is too brittle no elasticity like 7018...operators can be real hard on things when they're trying to exploit a crack in something so they can bust it out Be it excavators backhoes dozers or loaders  BTDT got the job doneAnd then there are the times when the crack exploits the machine Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old TruckOriginally Posted by killdozerd11For doing equipment repair 7018 is kingThe rods all repair guys carry 6010 7018 7024  and some hardfacing rods sometimes  7014 is too brittle no elasticity like 7018...operators can be real hard on things when they're trying to exploit a crack in something so they can bust it out Be it excavators backhoes dozers or loaders  BTDT got the job doneAnd then there are the times when the crack exploits the machine
Reply:Well F ing Excuse meBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by copeI don't recall the OP asking about rods for repairing heavy equipment.  The fact is that the 7014 is a useful rod for a lot of people.
Reply:Well, I built my first utility trailer using 7014 back in 1972.  Last I heard, it was still in service.  The 7014 is a good choice for a lot of light fab work.
Reply:It is a great rod to weld steel floor sheeting with.  It is also good at repairing dumpsters.
Reply:I probably took that wrong ( not in a real good mood this morning )i would not use it if i was repairing or fabbing (that's building things) Because the weldment itself as noted cracks under stress i have not had that problem with 7018...had the base metal rip out else where but the 7018 repair or weldment on a fabricated piece fail yetThere is the reason why you never see 7014 mentioned muchMost people don't find much use for it if you want to use it go for it But i have a reputation as a good repair welder and fabricator to protect and using a rod that will fail is not going to help thatBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:As I stated in my first response to this thread - I've found that many pros will look down on people who use something other than 7018.Turns out my post was a prediction for this thread as well.I would think the original poster has his answer on why few people mention 7014.  This is usually the result.I still like it for general stuff, but if 7018 was needed for the job at hand, I would naturally use it. Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Here is some good reading on welding rods.http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/2788...elding-101-03/Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I don't know why its not popular. Its never spoken of in my welding school. The only rods they let us use on plate are 6010, 6011, 6013, & 7018. And then they say 6013 is junk but they teach it to beginners because its popular and cheap. I think I'm goin to buy a box of 7014s and try them out just for the heck of it!
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11I probably took that wrong ( not in a real good mood this morning )i would not use it if i was repairing or fabbing (that's building things) Because the weldment itself as noted cracks under stress i have not had that problem with 7018...had the base metal rip out else where but the 7018 repair or weldment on a fabricated piece fail yetThere is the reason why you never see 7014 mentioned muchMost people don't find much use for it if you want to use it go for it But i have a reputation as a good repair welder and fabricator to protect and using a rod that will fail is not going to help that
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughI don't know why its not popular. Its never spoken of in my welding school. The only rods they let us use on plate are 6010, 6011, 6013, & 7018. And then they say 6013 is junk but they teach it to beginners because its popular and cheap. I think I'm goin to buy a box of 7014s and try them out just for the heck of it!
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeI have an oven but I also keep 7018 in sealed tubes with desicant in them. There's a huge misconception on this forum that you must keep 7018 in an oven for it to run properly. Truth is, 90% of the folks on this forum wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a 7018rod  thats been sitting out for 6 months and a 7018 thats 20 min out of a rod oven, thats a fact.Those who do code work are well aware of the requirements for 7018. Those who dont do code work, wouldnt know the difference.Back to the 7014, I consider it a junk rod and dont waste my time with it.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveAs I stated in my first response to this thread - I've found that many pros will look down on people who use something other than 7018.Turns out my post was a prediction for this thread as well.I would think the original poster has his answer on why few people mention 7014.  This is usually the result.I still like it for general stuff, but if 7018 was needed for the job at hand, I would naturally use it. Dave J.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeYou sure do talk a good line of crap Dave, good enough to fool most people that your a fn welder of some sort
Reply:7014 is nice to weld thick stuff to thin stuff because it is less likely to burn through the thin stuff. It's a less penetrating rod than 6010/6011, 6013 or 7018. I use it quite a lot for non critical welding, and it runs very well on AC buzz boxes. In my opinion it's not a bad rod for general (non critical ) welding applications.I gave my brother in law a buzz box yesterday and he came over to learn how to stick weld. I gave him some 7014 and showed him what to do and in less than a hour he was making some decent welds.
Reply:Originally Posted by kctgb...I gave my brother in law a buzz box yesterday and he came over to learn how to stick weld. I gave him some 7014 and showed him what to do and in less than a hour he was making some decent welds.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveHere is some good reading on welding rods.http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/2788...elding-101-03/Dave J.
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85So this is what I gathered:6013 - Don't use, no one likes it lol
Reply:I guess I'm not the norm because I like 6013 rod. I can make it run well for me with no problems. It's a good rod as it doesn't penetrate as deep as 6010/11 but will still weld through some yuk. I keep a good supply on hand along with 7014.Don't underestimate 6013 rod it's a very good rod. I've seen welders use 6013 to repair heavy equipment like dump trucks and front end loaders and as far as I know the welds are still holding. Originally Posted by joecool85Great reading.  It seems 7014 will be useful for most of my welding needs unless I need deep penetration for some reason - but most things I'm working with are small metal (1/8" or so).  6013 just doesn't seem to penetrate at all and the welds are weak.Trailers etc seems like 7018 is the only way to go.  Also sometime once I get a decent welder I want to try some 7024, looks interesting though I doubt I have much use for it.So this is what I gathered:6010/11 - Use on "dirty" metal and/or when you need deep digging properties6013 - Don't use, no one likes it lol 7014 - Use for "general purpose" welding (fixing tools, fabricating railings, artwork etc)7018 - Heavy machine repair as well as other high strength needs (trailers, hitches, automotive frames and bracketry).7024 - Useful for laying down large beads quickly, good for thick metal joining assuming 7018 isn't required.
Reply:Originally Posted by papaharley03Go take a look at Pipefitter's thread... all 6013 then you might want to revise that assessment.Just saying,Papa
Reply:I was fixing a snow plow attachment today for a quad and welded two sides of some flat steel with 7014 and 6013. As you can see the 7014 on the left didnt penetrate as well as the 6013 on the right. I was welding 3/16 angle to 1/8 square tubing to reenfoce the plow mount. 7014 is a very good rod for welding thick material to thin material, i was welding at 120 amps for both 7014 and 6013. 7014 needs clean material to weld and 6013 will weld material with some yuk on it. I like to clean everything down to the metal before i weld it with any rod. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by kctgbI was fixing a snow plow attachment today for a quad and welded two sides of some flat steel with 7014 and 6013. As you can see the 7014 on the left didnt penetrate as well as the 6013 on the right. I was welding 3/16 angle to 1/8 square tubing to reenfoce the plow mount. 7014 is a very good rod for welding thick material to thin material, i was welding at 120 amps for both 7014 and 6013. 7014 needs clean material to weld and 6013 will weld material with some yuk on it. I like to clean everything down to the metal before i weld it with any rod.
Reply:On my machine if I weld either rod much over 120 amps the puddle starts jumping all over the place. I usually like to weld at the higher end of the chart for any rod but like I said in my last post I was welding thin tubing to 3/16 angle and if I went any higher on the amps I would of burned holes in the 1/8 tubing.I can weld 7014 at a higher setting but if I go past 130 amps I start to get dingle berries all over the place. 7014 has a much heavier flux than 6013 so it's good to weld it at a higher setting to push the slag to the back of the puddle. Every machine will weld differently, my machine works best at 120 to130 amps for 7014 1/8 rod. All of this is dependent on how thick the material is I'm welding. If it's much thicker then I have to bump up the amps to get the desired looking weld. I just know my machine and what works best for what ever I'm welding.Last edited by kctgb; 05-12-2013 at 12:19 PM.
Reply:I was only referring to your penetration example.  Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:All rods start out with the same wire, flux makes the difference . All rods and welds are stronger than the base metal . Every thing will work . If you only had one rod use E 7018 1/8 & 5/32 for every thing. AC/DC ok. Wire burns off and works. E7014 great for tacks and mild steel. E6010/6011 pipe roots and rusty work.Hammer down fill up E 6027, E 6012, E7024 & for low hydrogen E 7028 7/.32 & 1/4 get out the 500 amp AC.