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I have a t/a 185. I recently bought a water cooler to replace thh air torch. I wanted to practice with the new torch so I went about joining 1/4" plate in T joints. I know 185 amps is not 1/4" rated... but what if I really cook it in there?I thought my welds looked fantastic, but I wanted to do some destrictive tests so I welded one side of the T and then cooled it, and broke them over.It was a real eye opener. no matter how good and it looked on the surface there was not one bit of root penetration.I'm a bit bummed out, but at least I know what I can't do now.
Reply:Don't be to bummed bud. For years outside of work all I ran was a 185a machine with positive results on 1/4in aluminum. You just gotta practice different feed fill and manipulation techniques to make it work with what you got. And remember, a bevel can be your best friend. Start playing bud! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:true I could bevel it. or preheat it.I did some butt welds with 3/16" gap too, but could not get what I consider enough depth of penetration.I'll add some of my pics tonight.it was more of an eye opener abotu what LOOKED like a good deep weld when I was lookign at the puddle really wasnt. I waited till the root melted before adding filler so I figured it must have melted more deeply. turns out it was very shallow.
Reply:You can do it if you don't need 100% penetration (which you don't for practice). Max amps, lower freq, less cleaning more penetration.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Most ratings are based of of presumed joint prep...not butt welds. Also I think if you adjusted frequency higher, and reduced cleaning to a minimum, it would get close.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I'm running about the least practical cleaning. did not think to lower the frequencey though. I think I'm at 75hzyes there are ways... but why practice poor penetration welding?It's about realizing I have no business welding up 1/4" aluminum plate structures with a 185 amp machine like you might with a 300 amp machine. I think it's just to much to ask to be a practical machine for that application.Last edited by dsergison; 10-09-2013 at 03:33 PM.
Reply:That's what I would do is turn the frequency all the way up! Lower Frequency makes a wider arc, and a higher frequency makes a narrower one. You need a narrow arc to help get penetration into the root of the fillet weld. Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:cool, I'll try playing with freq
Reply:I will try again. with bevel preps too.
Reply:Originally Posted by dsergisonI will try again. with bevel preps too.
Reply:I would run 50-60hz on the frequency. Others will disagree though. Grab 2 pieces and try one at max hertz and one much much lower.Last edited by Gamble; 10-09-2013 at 04:05 PM.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleI would run 50-60hz on the frequency. Others will disagree though. Grab 2 pieces and try one at max hurts and one much much lower.
Reply:lol you are correct.That hurts too!Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleI would run 50-60hz on the frequency. Others will disagree though.
Reply:I think I left my old TA185 set at 100 or 120hz all the time..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Here is some proof that if you work like a poor boy and use what you have you can push a machine for more than it was intended for. 1/4in T6 beveled on both sides and beat to death, and started with 1/16 filler at 70a and finished with 3/32 at 185a. Root and cover on both sides! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Holy cow, you beat the snot out of that weld Mike! Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPHoly cow, you beat the snot out of that weld Mike!
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeTook everything I gave it brother and still laughed at me. Practice, play, waste time and money and it pays off. No matter what anybody thinks bud!
Reply:IDK, every thing I've ever read has said that LOWER AC frequency will give you better penetration on thicker material. It's counterintuitive. I also thought that a higher frequency would focus the arc more and give deeper penetration in a smaller area. IIRC, it was user Donoharm that schooled me on this. DavidR also.DavidR had tested his TA185 with an ammeter and found it actually put out a max of 199 amps. Many people say the TA arcmasters have a hotter arc than expected by their meters. Apparently the 1 amp per .001 was based on tranny machines with 50/50 balance. The increased EN ratio is supposed to allow more heat into the material than the old fixed ratio and thus the ability to weld thicker material than would've been expected for the amperage. Also, fillets are gonna require more heat because of joint design. Think about it. Your focusing the arc in a diagonal plane to the joint. So the actual material thickness in that plane exceeds 1/4".TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Clamp meters are geared to register at 60 hz and 50/50 ac power. Changing the frequency changes how they register amps as well as balance, so they cannot be trusted unless they are calibrated to compensate.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255IDK, every thing I've ever read has said that LOWER AC frequency will give you better penetration on thicker material. It's counterintuitive. I also thought that a higher frequency would focus the arc more and give deeper penetration in a smaller area. IIRC, it was user Donoharm that schooled me on this. DavidR also.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255IDK, every thing I've ever read has said that LOWER AC frequency will give you better penetration on thicker material. It's counterintuitive. I also thought that a higher frequency would focus the arc more and give deeper penetration in a smaller area. IIRC, it was user Donoharm that schooled me on this. DavidR also.DavidR had tested his TA185 with an ammeter and found it actually put out a max of 199 amps. Many people say the TA arcmasters have a hotter arc than expected by their meters. Apparently the 1 amp per .001 was based on tranny machines with 50/50 balance. The increased EN ratio is supposed to allow more heat into the material than the old fixed ratio and thus the ability to weld thicker material than would've been expected for the amperage. Also, fillets are gonna require more heat because of joint design. Think about it. Your focusing the arc in a diagonal plane to the joint. So the actual material thickness in that plane exceeds 1/4".
Reply:What often gets forgotten and over looked in the "how many amps do I need to weld alum?" question is the damage to the base material that happens when you weld using lower amps. It's not that you can't make a solid weld, its that the heat build up in the material will take all the temper out of the piece. What's the point of using say 6061 T6 if when you are done you have dead soft annealed material because you "over cooked" it?Not to knock your demo Mike or your weld, but what I see is that the material bent right above the weld in what would normally be the HAZ area. The sharp bend would tend to lead me to believe that the material was dead soft there, and possibly over an even larger area depending on how the force was applied. I'd bet if you did actual testing on the piece you'd find the material will fail vs the weld, and the material would fail well before that of the original unwelded state.I'll grant that not all projects would be ruined by this issue. If all you need to do is stick two pieces together well below the design strength of the material in it's annealed state, then this really doesn't matter. However it would make a huge difference in applications where they heat treated the alum for a reason. The point of going with higher amps is to reduce the total heat input so the area "damaged" by the welding heat is as small as possible, and this weakness can be countered by the additives in the filler material selection. The end result being a weld that matches or exceeds the original specs for the material temper so you avoid the need to reheat treat the part after welding..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:@DSW. What I was getting at is I started at 70a with a 1/16 filler pushing it in at probably a inch and a half per dab as quick as I could go. After the first pass it was hot, but not hot enough where I couldn't touch it and move it with my bare hand. Not enough to weaken the HAZ at all. Alitttle cool down time in between the next three passes, and then a final cool down before the testing. I was actually trying to prove that the HAZ did not get effected at all, and should have added more pics. There was zero affect at all. Just a matter of speed, manipulation, and a little brain power. Thank god I at least have a little. A little more time consuming, but point being if it's all you had, yes it can be done without any risk of failure due to changing the composition of your material. Attached ImagesI hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:41:24