i need some bumper building help

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ok so I added a hitch to the front of my truck, don't like the way the factory bumper fits up now and it is about shot from rust anyway. so I thought I would build a new one. had some 5/32 sheet around and started cutting out some pieces to fit this together. here are some pics to help describe my dilemma. the front center piece seems to be twisted a bit. i need to know how to straighten it. tried to lay it out on my table and beat it straight that made it worse tried to reverse the action and no help. aaarrggLincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Once you weld it, it should straighten out. As long as you weld it square and even, taking your time and stuff. If that does not work, heat it hot, then bend it.
Reply:guess I should have said the piece at the end away from the camera is supposed to be bent to the left. that is going to be duplicated at the other end or the left side in the second pic. I am not sure how to square up the center piece. one of my biggest issues is I have to cut everything with a grinder with cutting wheels.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:I cut all of my stuff with grinding wheels on a 4.5" grinder too! Makes for slow, dirty, loud work. So i am thinking you are going to have a top plate, front plate, and the 2 side/diagnial plates.Here is a link to a build by a member here on the same kind of truck you have. He does front and back. But you can just look at the front. Is this any where near to the look you want? Your cut looks pretty good, but a grinding wheel will clean most of it up. The metal does have a S (very slight) bend. I would start at one end, and as i work along, i would bend the peace so it fits with the other part. Also, adding a strip of angle to the back side, and tacking it down every 3 inches would help A LOT! Is the photo of the top or front part?
Reply:A torch and water could straighten it, some of the other guys know allot more about that than I do. Should be able to find some info if you search flame/heat straightening. If I was building a bumper I would just buy a new piece of steel, saves time vs fighting a bent piece.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by Canadian WeldingI cut all of my stuff with grinding wheels on a 4.5" grinder too! Makes for slow, dirty, loud work. So i am thinking you are going to have a top plate, front plate, and the 2 side/diagnial plates.Here is a link to a build by a member here on the same kind of truck you have. He does front and back. But you can just look at the front. Is this any where near to the look you want? Your cut looks pretty good, but a grinding wheel will clean most of it up. The metal does have a S (very slight) bend. I would start at one end, and as i work along, i would bend the peace so it fits with the other part. Also, adding a strip of angle to the back side, and tacking it down every 3 inches would help A LOT! Is the photo of the top or front part?
Reply:I built a rear bumper for my truck. When I got the main body of the bumper made and was ready to attach the bumper to frame mounts, I set it on jack stands behind the truck and clamped the mounts to the frame. One side was a little higher than the other, so I let some air out of the tire on the high side until it lined up where I wanted it. Then I tack welded the mounts to the body of the bumper and then removed it for final welding in the open. The jack stands had pin height adjustments every 2" apart and I only needed less than 1/2" to get it lined up right. I hope this suggestion is helpful when it comes time to attach the frame mounts.I read your thread on the front hitch mount too. If you build it strong enough, and possibly tie it into the front bumper for added strength, you could use it for a winch mount too. Then build a winch mount on a 2" receiver tube and mount a good winch to it. You would then have a winch that could be used on either end of your truck, depending on which way to need the pull. I have seen trucks stuck where there was not a tree or other good anchor point within reach of the winch cable, but there was one to the rear. Having a winch on the back can be an advantage in a case like this, and you only need to buy one winch to serve on either end. The trucks I saw stuck, had the winch permanently mounted to the front and needed additional chain to reach a tree to pull it free. Winching it backwards out of the hole would have been A LOT easier than pulling out ALL the winch cable and dragging out the chain to hook up. Just something to consider while you are building this bumper.
Reply:so far I have not been stuck bad enough to need a winch. the truck is a 4x4 cab and chassis dually, 4:10 gears limited slip in the rear. going to 265/75/16 tires with aggressive tread. the receiver will be welded to the bumper also for added strength.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64"... one of my biggest issues is I have to cut everything with a grinder with cutting wheels."
Reply:yes a plasma cutter would be nice but my budget wont allow that for a while.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:PressureWelder from here makes some SICK bumpers, maybe he'll chime in with some pics. He's a excellent layout guy and pattern maker. He would lay that bumper out in one full sheet and mark it, score it with a cutting wheel and fold the whole thing together, weld up up the score marks and 90% is done in one shot with one sheet. No warping and I believe he lays them out backwards so all the welding is on the inside of the bumper, so minimal grinding so it really looks like a factory stamping. He does some sick work. Hope he chimes in for ya!I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikePressureWelder from here makes some SICK bumpers, maybe he'll chime in with some pics. He's a excellent layout guy and pattern maker. He would lay that bumper out in one full sheet and mark it, score it with a cutting wheel and fold the whole thing together, weld up up the score marks and 90% is done in one shot with one sheet. No warping and I believe he lays them out backwards so all the welding is on the inside of the bumper, so minimal grinding so it really looks like a factory stamping. He does some sick work. Hope he chimes in for ya!
Reply:the metal I have to work with is about 37" long. I have to add pieces to get my length. this is just an experiment at this point. if it turns out well I will put it on. I might end up going and buying some different stuff to build it with.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:For cutting flat metal I bought the harbor freight metal circular saw , cheap, $ 60.00. I didn't want to buy a real one until I tried one. The HF is still going and works well. I only cut flat metal with it, up to 1/4''.  I couldn't find the HF saw on their website. My HF saw is # 08897 7 1/4''. Here's a  Milwaukee. $299.99http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...4655_200304655Evolution Power Tools STEELSAW1 7-1/4-Inch Steel Cutting Circular Saw   $179.00  This one might be worth it. http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Powe.../dp/B0046VUGSU
Reply:I thought about getting a metal blade for my circular saw, didn't think it would work very well. maybe I was wrong, wouldn't be the first time.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Depends on your saw. Abrasive wheels work on almost any circular saw. The carbide blades work best on high torque, low RPM saws like worm drives I've found. That Milwaukee steel saw runs at about 3700 RPM where most regular 7 1/4" saws run at around 5800 RPMs. My wormdrive is closer to 4000 RPM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The designated metal cutting circular saw does a better job on catching chips because of the design. Those suckers fly all over the place.
Reply:I got an abrasive wheel at wally world gonna try it out this afternoon.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64so far I have not been stuck bad enough to need a winch. the truck is a 4x4 cab and chassis dually, 4:10 gears limited slip in the rear. going to 265/75/16 tires with aggressive tread. the receiver will be welded to the bumper also for added strength.
Reply:well I expect when it happens I will be on a construction site where there will be a dozer or something like that to pull me out. I never leave home without a chain.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:here is where I am at now have some temporary angles clamped on and the ends marked to cutLincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:here is a pic with the ends cut and the top straightened out a little. to me something looks out of line but my gf says it looks fine. maybe it is my ocd for perfection.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:should I use 6013 or 7018 to weld the top plate on and the outside corners?Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:I would use 7018 , nicer finish , and  pretty weld.
Reply:I like the idea of using the top plate to straighten it out as you weld. the other idea is you could add some kind of steel, like angle to the top and use it to keep the plate straight, then when you weld the top plate you would never see the angle. it would also help you weld it out with 7018 rod. you could run the 7018 a little hotter with the angle to help from burn through. just one idea. good luckEsab 253 mig welderHobart 210 mvp w/ C25 gasmiller 225 a/c stick welderO/A torchHF 40 amp plasma cutteryes I was thinking the 7018 also but was worried a little with burn through. but as was said the angle behind should help with that.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:ok well I broke out the ol Lincoln ac buzz box due to it was too late to run the aead  in my driveway. well to say the least I made a mess. but in my defense I haven't used it in a year or so and the fitment wasn't the best having no gap at the bottom to an 1/8" at the top. so please be easy on me. lmao  Dnt look at the pigeon poop in the top of the angle that was done with m farmhand 115 flux core when I first got it and had no idea what I was doing.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Looking good!
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTLooking good!
Reply:now I am having blow through issues here is a pic what should I try now? I turned down machine from about 90 amps to about 75 amps and no luck.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:ok got the hole filled whew. need to fill some undercut maybe 6013 low amps? and grind smoothLincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTLooking good!
Reply:here is what the hole looks like nowLincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:ok so here is where I am with the bumper I have the angle on the top of the back side, and the top plate tacked in place.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:fdude64, based on the evidence provided in your pics, your welding skill level is no were near good enough to be "attempting" to weld a bumper together for putting on a vehicle that will travel on public roads.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Originally Posted by Danfdude64, based on the evidence provided in your pics, your welding skill level is no were near good enough to be "attempting" to weld a bumper together for putting on a vehicle that will travel on public roads.
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64...what do you recommend I do to make this better?
Reply:Originally Posted by Mikel_24Before attempting to Weld a proyect (a critical proyect as a bumper for this matter), you should be practicing for a while. First padding beads on a piece of flat plate, then start with lap joints and finally corner joints(inside and outside). No real need to learn vertical and overhead because as long as you Weld anything on the bench, you will be positioning your work so you are welding flat. This is true as long as you attach the bumper to the truck using bolts...Once you have your welding skills up to the required level, go and weld your bumper.Mikel
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64I understand I am not a well seasoned fabricator. what do you recommend I do to make this better?
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauGet a more experienced welder to do the welding for you.
Reply:Since you've had two semesters of welding class I'll be direct. Never start a project without first dialing in your amperage and technique on scrap that matches your project.Even if it takes you hours, it is time well spent if you want to do quality work.As soon as you finish this bumper start on your 3g test practice...Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 01-02-2014 at 11:50 AM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:thank you dave, I know I still have issues to work out in my learning experience. like I said this is an experiment to see if I CAN do it. the metal is from an old 3 point hitch scoop and I just wanted to see what I ended up with.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64yes but if I do that how do I learn?
Reply:Originally Posted by fdude64 this is part of my practice and in march I will be taking me 3g cert test. I have taken smaw I and II at the local vocational school and am confident I can pass the cert.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNo offense, but if the pigeon poop I see in the picts of post 27 are any indication of your welding skills, you had better practice quite a bit if you plan to pass a 3G cert in just a few months. What I'm seeing doesn't give me confidence you are ready to think about a cert yet.As far as "thin", we have our students set up with 3/32" gap, 1/8" land when they prep for their 3/8" 3G practice coupons. If they can run open root but joints, they won't have any issues if they want to run 3G with a backing plate normally. You material isn't all that much "thinner" than what they have to run for their root pass.As far as how to get experience before doing projects, it's mostly just practicing on scrap 1st. At the tech school we walk all the students thru positions and joints in a series. Each new one builds on what you learned in the last joint. They star out doing all flat joints, welds on flat plate, then overlapping 50% of the last one working on pads, then laps, t's where they do a root pass, 2 overlapping cover passes and a weave, outside corners and finally but joints. They typically do each joint in 6010, 7014 and 7018, so by the time they are done with flat, they've got a tone of hood time in. Then they do it all over again in horizontal, followed by vertical and finally overhead.From what I'm seeing, you haven't really learned to read the puddle yet and that's almost a requirement if you plan to pass 3G. The BB's I see in some of those picts are what I'd expect of someone who can barely run flat on average.Maybe I'm wrong, but I've worked with a lot of students. I'd want to see your flat and horizontal welds 1st to see if you were ready for vertical. What I'm seeing in those picts isn't telling me that you are ready.
Reply:the pics in post 27 were with the Lincoln 225 ac buzz box I have that I haven't run in over a year. yes they are bad and I have ground them out and reran them in dc 7018. the ones in the top corner of the angle were done with a 115 vac fluxcore when I just got it and had no idea how to mig. that was just a test piece that was laying around. that machine has been deemed unfit to use period. the last class I took was all focused on 3g cert and with the 3/8 beveled plate with 1/4 backing strap with a 1/4 gap. we did bend tests at school and I did good there. am I perfect? NO do I need more practice? ALWAYS will this go on my truck? probably not. but I am trying to learn some fab skills while learning some different types of weld positions. I will run some flat beads on !/4" plate and post them here. I appreciate every ones input and will keep practicing.Lincoln 225 ac (my first machine)farmhand 115vac 70amp mig/fc toymiller aead 200le (my main machine)
Reply:The bumper I started to draw out for the rearend of my plow truck will have a 1x1 square skeleton inside....just a thought. Im doing mine that way for strength as its a plow truck and I will definitely be backing into snow berms that ive plowed and dont want to bend the sheet metal. Not sure that is the "correct" way to do it but thats how I plan to do mine.  It will also make it easier to build because of all the angles im incorporating into the designMiller Syncrowave 210 w/CK FlexLoc 150  3/6/14ESAB PCM 1125 Plasma CutterAtlas 12x36 LatheACER 9x42 3hp millHarig 612 Surface GrinderDRINK Machine              welding&fabrication
Reply:My advise is to just practice. I am a self taught welder. I learned by lots of practice on scrap I would bring home from work. I would weld them and take them back into work and usually get advise from a experienced welder at work. I also built lots of junk at home that looked horrible, but it helped me learn how to fabricate. if I was to make the same things again I am sure they would look much better. my opinion is to do lots of practice welding, but you also need practice at fabricating, which usually doesn't require a lot of welding till the end. being able to see problems early on in a build and knowing how you should assemble something is what fabricating is all about. some of are best fabricators are not always the best welders, but they get all the hard jobs because they know how to lay out equipment and make it work. I think you should have little projects going. that way to get practice in all aspects of fabrication, not just welding. keep trying.Last edited by weekendwelder70; 01-02-2014 at 02:43 PM.Esab 253 mig welderHobart 210 mvp w/ C25 gasmiller 225 a/c stick welderO/A torchHF 40 amp plasma cutter
Reply:I am a cheap fucher myself and sometimes scrap metal is best left as scrap metal. Dealing with bent , rusted crap is a complete recipe for frustration .Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:Is this the truck it's going on?