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So my prior welding experience comprises of randomly using my Hobart 140 flux. Today I borrowed our body shops Syncrowave 200 to try my hand at some tig. So got everything setup and ran some beads on some scrap 5/16 steel I found in the shop, turned out fairly good and did a couple different style welds with some success, not perfect but at least not horrible. Here are a couple on the steel.So after that I decided to try some aluminum, First here is the setup:Piece is a leftover aluminum intercooler pipe from my car- around 14 gaugeCleaned area to weld with a flapwheel and wiped down with acetoneUsing 20cfh pure argon, balled tip lanthenated tungsten, Welder set to A/C- tried amps from 85-140For some reason I can't start a puddle to save my life, it almost seems like the arc is jumping all over the place and will not focus at all. It pops and sound very strange-almost like trying to weld without gas. I'm getting alot of black soot all around where I'm trying to start the puddle as well. I understand that Aluminum is harder to control the puddle but it seems like it shouldn't be this hard to get a stable arc. I also tried on another thick piece of aluminum we had in the shop as well with the same result.Any help on what I'm doing wrong would highly be appreciated.Thanks
Reply:Also when trying to weld the aluminum, my autodark helmet won't even darken but works fine when welding steel?
Reply:Got you HF on?
Reply:What size cup are you using? How much electrode stickout? What length arc are you holding? Do you have High Frequency turned on? Try another piece of aluminum? I see some brown soot on the steel weld, often times that is from contamination in the argon. For me it has always been loose connections on the hose or holes in it, but some have had "bad" argon.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:The other thing is give the pedal some juice to get a puddle started. A lot of times I see people get that soot scale from trying to start a puddle with to little amps. If I were doing it with a dynasty or my T/A I would flat foot the pedal around 110 to 120 amps and back it off from there. The other fact that your helmet is not going dark make me think your starting to light also. Providing the sensor don't have any obstructions. How thick was the thick piece? remember 1 amp per .001 of thickness and that's probably only close to accurate once the puddle is established. If im welding 1/8 aluminum I set the machine for around 150 amps and back it down to around 125 once were rolling. Hope this helps.Last edited by KD Welding; 11-06-2013 at 10:09 PM.
Reply:I didn't know I had to turn High frequency on separatly from switching it to a/c voltage. I didn't see any if settings but I may be overlooking it.
Reply:I learned to hate balled electrodes, the arc goes everywhere on me. I grind it to a point, then make a small flat on the end. Ditto on flooring the pedal at first, then backing off.
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugWhat size cup are you using? How much electrode stickout? What length arc are you holding? Do you have High Frequency turned on? Try another piece of aluminum? I see some brown soot on the steel weld, often times that is from contamination in the argon. For me it has always been loose connections on the hose or holes in it, but some have had "bad" argon.
Reply:Originally Posted by sbchp355The other thing is give the pedal some juice to get a puddle started. A lot of times I see people get that soot scale from trying to start a puddle with to little amps. If I were doing it with a dynasty or my T/A I would flat foot the pedal around 110 to 120 amps and back it off from there. The other fact that your helmet is not going dark make me think your starting to light also. Providing the sensor don't have any obstructions. How thick was the thick piece? remember 1 amp per .001 of thickness and that's probably only close to accurate once the puddle is established. If im welding 1/8 aluminum I set the machine for around 150 amps and back it down to around 125 once were rolling. Hope this helps.
Reply:Originally Posted by miniman82I learned to hate balled electrodes, the arc goes everywhere on me. I grind it to a point, then make a small flat on the end. Ditto on flooring the pedal at first, then backing off.
Reply:On the Syncrowaves I have used High Frequency was set separate from AC. When welding on AC HF needs to be set to continuous, when welding steel set HF at start. Try to get a good piece of 1/8", 1/4" is going to be a little too much for the machine and could burn up the torch depending on what size it is.When welding aluminum too much argon flow can be bad, low flow can also be bad. 20cfh should be fine with a #6 cup or larger, 1/4" stickout should be fine. Keep a tight arc and use enough amps for the size, if you get 1/8" aluminum I would set the machine at 150 amps minimum and use all the amps to get the puddle started. For larger pieces of 1/8" more amps may be needed to get a puddle started quickly.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:It probably is the HF then as I didn't change anything when going from DC to A/C. So I will try to find that tommorrow. Thanks for all your help guys.
Reply:That machine doesn't have enough *** to make learning on 1/4 easy. You would have to blend some helium and even then it would be tough. Get some 11ga. or 1/8. Get flat plate don't try to put any joints together. just run bead after bead next to each other. set the machine to 150 now sure what other setting the syncrowave has. My machines are inverter based. Set the balance somewhere 65 to 70 percent if possible. Squirmy gave you a good answer while I was typing.Last edited by KD Welding; 11-06-2013 at 10:43 PM.
Reply:Well I looked through the manual and don't see any settings for HF except for setting the HF start to low/med/high. I did notice that alot of times I have to hit the pedal three or four times to get the HF to work and start the arc, I notice in the manual it says to adjust spark gaps as maintenance, I may check that tommorrow as well as pick up some 1/8" plate to practice on. Is aluminum that much harder than steel to get a puddle going? I mean I was running those welds I posted on steel after 10 minutes of working with it lol.
Reply:Originally Posted by 90ZCREXIs aluminum that much harder than steel to get a puddle going? I mean I was running those welds I posted on steel after 10 minutes of working with it lol.
Reply:Aluminum does exaggerate any problem you have in your system though. I had bad gas (no pun) and all was well with steel. Aluminum was sputtering and aweful. Try running beads with no filler for practice first. Just get your torch angle and arc length set and pull it across the plate. Also try doing some swirls on the plate with no filler. If there's any gas delivery problems, you will get contamination in the beads. The swirls should be clean with white etching, otherwise there's some material or gas contamination. You mentioned its inter cooler piping and you used a flap disc. If the piece is anodized, you may not have fully removed it. Welding anodized material will cause all sorts of problems, especially if your inexperienced. The flap disc could have ground impurities into the base metal. It's acetone and SS hand wire brushing for aluminum, that's it.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Sharp tungsten, floor the pedal and back off, and maybe watch your arc length because the black soot, in my experience, comes from touching/sticking the tungsten. Turn on HF.Profit?
Reply:WARNING, these pictures may make you puke a little in your mouth. These are from yesterday.This picture on the right side is where I was attempting to start a puddle with no success.In this picture, in the center is where I almost thought I was getting a puddle and started adding a little filler and just went with it still arcing all over the place.Above the center "weld" is where I put it on DCEN and tried that, I had a good arc for this but still didn't want to weld. To the left is where I was getting frustrated and held in one spot for a while until it caved in, Never did get a nice shiny weld pool though.And finally is my most beautiful aluminum weld of the evening, Don't ask me how this happened.
Reply:I just worked on an older welder where the arc fluttered and was noisy. The puddle barely formed and was dirty.Turned out the HF was not working well. But it would weld steel just fine since all the HF needed to do was start it.After cleaning (file down clean and straight) the points and re-setting the gap, it welded fine.Btw, You will never get a clean puddle on DCEN with straight argon. The positive half gives you the cleaning action, the negative the penetration. That's why AC is used for aluminum.Good luck Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI just worked on an older welder where the arc fluttered and was noisy. The puddle barely formed and was dirty.Turned out the HF was not working well. But it would weld steel just fine since all the HF needed to do was start it.After cleaning (file down clean and straight) the points and re-setting the gap, it welded fine.Btw, You will never get a clean puddle on DCEN with straight argon. The positive half gives you the cleaning action, the negative the penetration. That's why AC is used for aluminum.Good luck
Reply:I took the points out and flat faced them with sandpaper on a hard surface by eye. They were very dirty and pitted.I'm not sure about the operation question. Seems like it would just keep arcing but I really don't know for sure on that machine.Oh, and if you dipped the tungsten while welding steel first, make sure you re-do the tip before trying aluminum.Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 11-07-2013 at 05:20 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:If the arc doesn't start right away on steel you may need to turn the HF Intensity up some, I believe that opening the spark gap a little helps if you need a stronger HF arc. When welding steel if you are having trouble starting the arc, try touching the tungsten to the work before hitting the pedal to start the arc. I have no idea why it happens but my Airco wants me to do this and a Lincoln 355 I have used allot wants me to touch the tungsten first. (remember touch the tungsten to work without any current)For setting the spark gap check the owners manual. I think the Airco recommends about .008" gap with a max of .013". I set mine to .010" if I remember correctly.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:SUCCESS, I found some new 14 gauge aluminum around the shop, cleaned it up and boom, started a puddle and ran some decent beads. I also found a couple other pieces of really thick stuff and got some good beads run on it as well. Starting to get the hang of it. I definitely have to get a better mask as mine keeps flashing me on the highest sensitivity setting on Aluminum. Had to borrow a passive helmet and it helped alot. Thanks everybody for all the help, Now I just gotta practice!
Reply:Glad you are welding, but I still see a machine issue if those are "as welded"There is little to no cleaning action happening. You should have a visible frosty band called cathodic etching.Maybe your balance is set too far to penetration. Set more positive side and see if you cleaning band shows up.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveGlad you are welding, but I still see a machine issue if those are "as welded"There is little to no cleaning action happening. You should have a visible frosty band called cathodic etching.Maybe your balance is set too far to penetration. Set more positive side and see if you cleaning band shows up.Guess you'll have to weld some with only an acetone wipe down and no flap disc to find out.On 3 you should have a pretty big cleaning band. Here is one of mine with a transformer machine so it's 50/50 balance.Not an awesome weld but you get the idea.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:The DCEP is not "cleaning" anything. It's the rapid switch from DCEN to DCEP that's disrupting the oxide layer off the top of the puddle. Aluminum oxide melts at a much higher temp than aluminum itself does. That's why DCEN on aluminum kinds forms a skin and falls apart below it. When the metal has more contaminants, more percent in DCEP allows the oxide/floating crap to be disrupted for more time so you get a cleaner puddle. Yeah, it looks all peppery when you hit the pedal before the puddle forms. That's all normal. There should be a dial under the door that your leads come out of on your Syncro depending on the year you have. It's near the gas solenoid. It's the HF intensity and you can dial that up or down. You're supposed to used the least amount possible to avoid RF interference with electronics near you. If you put the amps on zero and the HF on continuous, you should hear the machine rattle when you step on the pedal. You should be getting a spark between the tungsten and workpiece like a sparkplug spark looks. You can look at it without a helmet.You need to find another piece of aluminum and use a new clean SS brush and acetone on it or you're pissing in the wind bro. No cathodic etching can also be a sign of a gas problem. I bet you're using 4340 filler?Last edited by Drf255; 11-08-2013 at 05:11 AM.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255The DCEP is not "cleaning" anything. It's the rapid switch from DCEN to DCEP that's disrupting the oxide layer off the top of the puddle. Aluminum oxide melts at a much higher temp than aluminum itself does. That's why DCEN on aluminum kinds forms a skin and falls apart below it. When the metal has more contaminants, more percent in DCEP allows the oxide/floating crap to be disrupted for more time so you get a cleaner puddle.
Reply:I do not use a flapwheel for aluminum. Most are made from aluminum oxide the same material that you are trying to remove. I use a stainless steel brush I keep separate just for al.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI'll have to disagree with you here.Tig aluminum on DCEP also works and has proper cleaning action with no "rapid switching" at all.Has to be very thin aluminum though since the tungsten can't handle high currents on DCEP.Mig aluminum is done DCEP, which give the proper cleaning action.If it was the "rapid switching" that caused the cleaning, neither of the two I listed would work.Directly from Miller:http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...rticles15.html
Reply:When did the cert IV ,I had the same problem,and somebody explained me that the oxide layer that protects the aluminium from corrosion is much harder ,so preparation is key,you can use a flapwheel or a stainless steel brush ;anything you use to prepare aluminium is only for aluminium,do not use it for any other material.Also for better results you can clean it with acetone ,Nearly forgot prepare the piece to be welded just before welding don't do it a bunch at a time because the hard layer oxidizes very quickly.(sometimes when doing courses you learn more from the people doing it just for the certificate but they have years of experience)
Reply:Read most of the replies, did notice the brown soot on a couple pics that shows you dipped the tungsten and need to dress it before you continue if you want a nice weld.....Sharp with a flat spot is for Inverter machines and will end up balling eventually anyway so if your using a Transformer machine the tungsten prep will be temporary anyway with the sharp point.....A lot of guys use the RED tungsten for aluminum with their transformer machines but I like PURE for those older machines....With the addition of the Dynasty 350 I never use PURE tungsten anymore.Keeping a clean tungsten will make some nice welding so create a good habit a by dressing it when you dip the puddle....After 5 hours of weldingLast edited by B_C; 11-12-2013 at 03:24 PM. Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Thanks for all the help guys. I'm getting better, but it seems I'm still not getting any etching zone that I see on other aluminum welds, even with just a stainless brush and acetone.
Reply:90zcrex, you catch on fast! I'm impressed. Sir you will want to clean the aluminum with a wire brush, stainless steel wire brush that is, not carbon steel; I have heard some use brass brushes, has anyone else? Clean clean, clean must the aluminum be, said he. Just brush the joint and surrounding area until the aluminum turns a dull gray.In Tennessee we and, I believe also in Texas also they use stainless steel waaaar brushes. Oh I see you are from SC, you will probably use a waaar brush also. LOL!Some kind of Big Blue constant current welding machineAnother smaller yet, Blue machine (it's got wire in it)
Reply:Hey Squirmypug what you said: If the arc doesn't start right away on steel you may need to turn the HF Intensity up some, I believe that opening the spark gap a little helps if you need a stronger HF arc. When welding steel if you are having trouble starting the arc, try touching the tungsten to the work before hitting the pedal to start the arc. I have no idea why it happens but my Airco wants me to do this and a Lincoln 355 I have used allot wants me to touch the tungsten first. (remember touch the tungsten to work without any current)I have to do that also with my miller 250 AC/DC Hi Freq; what is up with that? It is almost like I have to talk it into welding by manipulating the torch tungsten by tapping, (without current of course). Usually one tap will work, sometimes it requires two on rare occasions it says, "tap me three times and I will work for you". I didn't know if it was my foot pedal (which is new) or machine (which is newish). Anyone have any insight to that, or is that a whole new thread, "How to coax your Hi Freq to Engage using the tapping method".Some kind of Big Blue constant current welding machineAnother smaller yet, Blue machine (it's got wire in it)
Reply:Originally Posted by Dale Salisbury90zcrex, you catch on fast! I'm impressed. Sir you will want to clean the aluminum with a wire brush, stainless steel wire brush that is, not carbon steel; I have heard some use brass brushes, has anyone else? Clean clean, clean must the aluminum be, said he. Just brush the joint and surrounding area until the aluminum turns a dull gray.In Tennessee we and, I believe also in Texas also they use stainless steel waaaar brushes. Oh I see you are from SC, you will probably use a waaar brush also. LOL!
Reply:Originally Posted by Dale SalisburyHey Squirmypug what you said: If the arc doesn't start right away on steel you may need to turn the HF Intensity up some, I believe that opening the spark gap a little helps if you need a stronger HF arc. When welding steel if you are having trouble starting the arc, try touching the tungsten to the work before hitting the pedal to start the arc. I have no idea why it happens but my Airco wants me to do this and a Lincoln 355 I have used allot wants me to touch the tungsten first. (remember touch the tungsten to work without any current)I have to do that also with my miller 250 AC/DC Hi Freq; what is up with that? It is almost like I have to talk it into welding by manipulating the torch tungsten by tapping, (without current of course). Usually one tap will work, sometimes it requires two on rare occasions it says, "tap me three times and I will work for you". I didn't know if it was my foot pedal (which is new) or machine (which is newish). Anyone have any insight to that, or is that a whole new thread, "How to coax your Hi Freq to Engage using the tapping method".
Reply:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NE...ified_pins.svgHere is a picture of the plugs at the bottom right, The welder had a Nema 6-50 on it, and the outlet on the wall is a 10-50. The thing that confuses me is the 10-50 has no ground and the 6-50 doesn't have a neutral.
Reply:Check with a volt meter for your two 110 leads the other is most likely a ground? Never had that problem wiring a machine around here..... Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by 90ZCREXThis is also the case with the Syncrowave I am using, If I tap the part one time before firing up it works everytime. I'm wondering if I have a different problem with the machine as we had to wire up a different style plug to use it in our shop. I'm wondering if the wiring is not correct. I followed my managers instructions as he felt pretty confident but now I'm not so sure.
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CCheck with a volt meter for your two 110 leads the other is most likely a ground? Never had that problem wiring a machine around here..... |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:40:03