Table top - sandwich two 1/4" plates?

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Just upgraded my mig from an old 75 amp Craftsman to my IronMan and I'm getting very serious about welding.  Like most, I need to build a table but since we live in a fairly rural area, steel suppliers are in very short supply.  We do have a local (25 miles from our ranch) supplier that carries pipe, angle, bar, etc and plate only up to 1/4".  They sell plate in 4x8 sheets so I was thinking about a 2x4 or a 3x4 welding table and cutting two sheets and drilling some holes in the bottom plate and welding the two plates together, and edge welding them - it would be a lot more work than just buying 1/2" plate .  Any issues here?  I would rather buy 1/2" plate, but that's not really feasible - I don't want to drive over an hour to San Antonio to buy steel.Any issues with sandwiching two plates together?  On another note, I was thinking about 2"x1/4" angle for the frame, but it appears square tube it a little more popular.  Maybe it is a little easier to fab up than angle?TIAJohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:I'm wondering about temporary buckling or humping up issues during sessions where you'd be heating the top plate quicker than the bottom plate can heat. It is going to want to expand but with the plug welds and perimeter weld it won't be able to easily ???  About like spot nailing a laminate cover down rather than 100% glue."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyI'm wondering about temporary buckling or humping up issues during sessions where you'd be heating the top plate quicker than the bottom plate can heat. It is going to want to expand but with the plug welds and perimeter weld it won't be able to easily ???  About like spot nailing a laminate cover down rather than 100% glue.
Reply:not to be harsh, but the extra 1 hour you save by not traveling is worth many hours to build something that's not as good? it will take you a whole lot more than the hour you saved traveling & not give as good of a result anyway, no?miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Unless you are doing some really heavy work you don't need a 1/2" table top.  I would think 1/4" would be plenty.  Mine is only 3/16" and is plenty for anything that I ever needed.  Just make sure you have a good stout frame.StephenMillermatic 251Miller Syncrowave 200Miller 30A SpoolgunHypertherm Powermax 30Etc., etc., etc.............Cancer Sucks!
Reply:Use flat head cap screws to hold the two 1/4" plates together.  Build the table attaching the lower plate to the frame and legs, however you are going to do that.  Then take the upper plate and clamp it to the lower.  Layout a grid of holes to hold the two plates together, maybe a couple inches from each edge, and 18" hole to hole.  Drill the holes using a #7 drill bit (assuming 1/4-20 FHCS), though both plates.  When all the holes are drilled, remove the clamps and separate the top plate from the bottom plate.  Tap the holes in the bottom plate to 1/4-20.  Enlarge the holes in the upper to 1/4", and countersink with an 82°countersink deep enough that the FHCS heads sit flush, or slightly recessed.  The flat head cap screws will not protrude above the working surface, and hold the two plates together.  Slot welds will distort the top leaving you with a bowed table.  That said, I agree with turbocad6.  Time spent driving the round trip to San Antonio, vs time spent securing two 1/4" plates together.  The only reason I would go through with the method I mentioned is if I wanted a table with a stainless top for example.  Meat of the table is cheap carbon steel, while the working surface won't lead to stainless parts picking up carbon.  The top is also replaceable, but I'd drill a new set of holes so they line up perfectly.
Reply:may be a stupid question, but did you ask your local supplier if they could specially order a piece of 1/2"? you said they carry up to 1/4", but id be surprised if they can get 1/4" but absolutely cannot get 1/2"
Reply:Originally Posted by rusty ripplemay be a stupid question, but did you ask your local supplier if they could specially order a piece of 1/2"? you said they carry up to 1/4", but id be surprised if they can get 1/4" but absolutely cannot get 1/2"
Reply:I have a 3/16' table and wish I woud have gotten a thicker one.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:If you do happen to make it into San Antonio. There's a scrap yard named Ashley Salvage on the south side of loop 410 that will sell you scrap per pound. Usually there's a wide selection of plate that are drops and you might find what your looking for at half the cost. I've been in there and seen numerous pieces of heavy plate that would make a nice smaller table. Just something for thought.
Reply:I got a piece of 1/2"  24" x 48" from IMS then had them fly cut one side for a flat surface.
Reply:Originally Posted by low_crew_cabIf you do happen to make it into San Antonio. There's a scrap yard named Ashley Salvage on the south side of loop 410 that will sell you scrap per pound. Usually there's a wide selection of plate that are drops and you might find what your looking for at half the cost. I've been in there and seen numerous pieces of heavy plate that would make a nice smaller table. Just something for thought.
Reply:Orange County, Ca.
Reply:Just a tad too far to drive for steel   thanks though!JohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:A flat table is also not necessarily the best way to go.  If you go with a ladder design (C-channel or rectangle tubing alternating with empty space), you will have a lot more clamping options.  Do a search on this site.My main welding table is only 1/8" steel.  I also have a 3/16" little table and also an inch-thick steel bench for pounding.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Jack - yeah, I noticed one of those designs when I did a search, quite interesting. That would be really handy for clamping parts together.  A design like that might be a good candidate for my shop. Even a small flat table would be a huge improvement over my aluminum step stool with a cut off purlin clamped to it for a tableJohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:Yea!  A new buddy from the Hobart forum turned me on to a supplier only 30 miles away that is a general welding/fab shop and they sell steel cut to size   I am now the proud owner of 1/2" plate that is 24" x 32" and wow it's heavy.  I think my table design needs to include some locking heavy-duty wheels 'cause that dude is going to be heavy.The steel cost about $100 and they cut it with a track torch - I was really surprised at how clean the cut was - picture of the cut attached.By the way steel whizzes - how much does that plate weigh? Attached ImagesJohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:About 217 lbs..2833 lbs/cu-in
Reply:You can do it, it's going to be a a lot of work but this is how.  Drill a 1/2 inch hole every 3-6 inches in the bottom plate.  Make squares.  Plug weld the two plates together.  This will nearly match the stiffness of the 1/2 plate you should have and prevent buckling.  We use similar techniques to clad thin stainless plate over thicker mild plates for corrosion prevention.
Reply:Don't need to do that - bought some 1/2" plate but thanks for the feedback - that might be helpful info for a future project.JohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:I'm glad you found a 1/2" sheet and didn't fool around with joining two plates. You want a nice flat surface and it would be very hard to accomplish that when welding them together.My dad has a 1" table that is great to put a billion pounds on but is very warped now from using it to bend things back into shape with come-alongs and heat. That table has been the home to tons of wannabe and apprentice welders and is hacked, gouged, and bent in every direction. That thing is a nightmare for fabricating on. I am going to build a "flat" table out of 1/4 or 5/16" for fabing and if someone bends it I will have to kill them.Last edited by feetfats; 12-23-2010 at 01:02 AM.
Reply:I see you already got your plate but for future project reference, Try calling Alamo Ironworks - they usually have some of the best prices in Texas for new steel and they deliver all over the state.  If you do not have to have it TODAY, they can throw what you want in with an existing order that will be passing your place.Or depending on where in the hill country you are you can holler at me, I run to SA quite often for steel - if you are on the way back ( I-10 to Junction then North) I can help you out for cheap.  We get regular deliveries from them, but its cheaper to run my own hotshots, and it gives me an excuse to go eat in SA.
Reply:Originally Posted by Static-XJAbout 217 lbs..2833 lbs/cu-in
Reply:Originally Posted by SRO1911I see you already got your plate but for future project reference, Try calling Alamo Ironworks - they usually have some of the best prices in Texas for new steel and they deliver all over the state.  If you do not have to have it TODAY, they can throw what you want in with an existing order that will be passing your place.Or depending on where in the hill country you are you can holler at me, I run to SA quite often for steel - if you are on the way back ( I-10 to Junction then North) I can help you out for cheap.  We get regular deliveries from them, but its cheaper to run my own hotshots, and it gives me an excuse to go eat in SA.
Reply:Have you started on the table build yet?No, not yet.  We're busy with the holidays but I plan on getting going with it Monday.  Been going through the build scenario in my mind and think I have a plan.JohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by John CanfieldYea!  A new buddy from the Hobart forum turned me on to a supplier only 30 miles away that is a general welding/fab shop and they sell steel cut to size   I am now the proud owner of 1/2" plate that is 24" x 32" and wow it's heavy.  I think my table design needs to include some locking heavy-duty wheels 'cause that dude is going to be heavy.The steel cost about $100 and they cut it with a track torch - I was really surprised at how clean the cut was - picture of the cut attached.By the way steel whizzes - how much does that plate weigh?
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott Younghe has his pressure too high and heat too high.  you can tell by the melted top (too much heat) and the cavetation (too much pressure)
Reply:The most important attribute of the situation was I didn't have to buy an entire sheet or cut it!  One of the edges is original and a few minutes with a grinder will touch up the other three sides.  I was surprised at how nice a cut an acetylene torch could produce even though it could have been better according to you guys.  (I'm not even going to show you all a picture of one of my cuts with a torch!)I was waiting on him while he cut it, so that might have influenced the quality - the shop was extremely busy with getting orders out the door before Christmas (and they are closed today.)Thanks for the comments guys and Merry Christmas!JohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:I'm happy for you that you found 1/2" plate. That is what I want. I have a table that catches on fire every now and again and everyone gives me the same reason. It is made of wood.  Oh well. I always go to ashleys when I have some spare cash in my pocket. It is one of my playgrounds. We are on our way to being farmers! Our site is always under construction so check back often for updates.  http://www.philosophyfarmstyle.com/
Reply:I've read about people using thinner plate over a wood base, but things would get a little weird the other way around JohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:There is always a spike in excitment when I'm working on something. Most of the time it involves fire also.  We are on our way to being farmers! Our site is always under construction so check back often for updates.  http://www.philosophyfarmstyle.com/
Reply:Got the base welded up .  Used 1.5" 11 gauge square tube and 1.5" 11 gauge angle.  The overall table height will be about 36"The base is inset three inches from the plate edge on three sides to allow for clamping.  I ordered the casters from Grainger and I'll either tack weld them or bolt them to some bar that will be on the leg ends. Attached ImagesJohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:Lookin good.We are on our way to being farmers! Our site is always under construction so check back often for updates.  http://www.philosophyfarmstyle.com/
Reply:All done   Turned out quite nicely (in my humble opinion) considering my metal working lack of talent.  I had some scrap DOM tube and as an afterthought I welded a couple of pieces on the bottom of the tabletop for a bending jig.  Not sure if it will be very functional, but it was a fun welding exercise at any rate.The top is pretty much dead-on flat lengthwise but it has a bit of a crown on the short side.  Sigh... Attached ImagesJohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:Its prolly a little top heavy with those casters itll move to much , u might find it to be a issue , ida prolly made the casters move up and down and set it directly on the floor with extra wheight in the bottom of it ie couple hundred pounds of junk , i hate things that move its such a pain now all u need is a 3" piece of angle on one side of it to put round things together lol ...... the main issue ive found is in our shop with 3 benches and the gun assembly bench , everything and anything else that has a flat surface always ends up with junk on it ......looks great though  now what are ya gonna build next ? lolI forgot how to change this.
Reply:I was wondering if it was going to be too top-heavy, but I put my full weight on the long edge and jumped up and down and to my great relief it seems very stable Two of the casters are fixed, and two are swivel but they lock - both the swivel and the wheel get locked.  With both wheels locked, it is very resistant to movement (again to my great relief.)Yup - LOL - the table top is already covered with tools! Already thinking about my next table - a stationary 3x5 with a grate for cutting!JohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by John CanfieldYup - LOL - the table top is already covered with tools!
Reply:Sorry, dup post and no way to delete. Attached ImagesLast edited by John Canfield; 01-17-2014 at 11:31 AM.
Reply:Sorry, dup post, can't delete.Last edited by John Canfield; 01-17-2014 at 11:32 AM.JohnHobart IronMan 230, Miller Diversion 180, Victor O/A, Grizzly G4003g gunsmith latheESAP MiniArc 161LTS, Hypertherm Powermax45, Milwaukee 14" chop saw, etc.