? Repair Options ? : Vintage Drill Press Table

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Recently acquired a vintage bench top drill press table.  The 12" x 12" item, a late '40s Atlas/Craftsman with model no. 103.0305, appears to be in excellent condition except for several drilling "mistakes" in the surface.   A large and several small divots.  Not full penetration.  Looking at options for filling in the divots to return the top to pristine condition. Currently do not have the table in my possession.  Item enroute.  Believe the top is old school cast iron, but not certain.  Read quite a lot of threads from IrishFixit, et al on repairing cast iron.  Mainly heavy walled repairs to cracked engine blocks and bosses using brazing and helibrazing.  Cool stuff.  Understand controlling thermal is key part in all cast iron repairs.  Also tearing through http://vintagemachinery.org/home.aspx for any insight on material pedigree and repairs.No access to O/A or O/P gear at this time, only a small bottle of MAPP for pre-heating.  What's your call?  Arc, Non-Arc? Other?Appreciate your feedback.Mahalo! Attached Images"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Peter (Castweld) here is probably the most knowledgeable as far as cast repairs. The small divots you could probably get away with running mig or tig on them since they are so small. The bigger one you may have issues with. I've done some tig repairs on cast iron by simply running very small beads, and then waiting until everything has cooled so I can touch it with my bare hand. The idea is you keep the heat to an absolute minimum and use a high nickle filler that has some "give" to it when doing the repair.As far as preheat, that would depend on how hot you need to get and keep things. I know Peter has used an oven to pre/post heat items. That table should fit in your kitchen oven, but I'm not sure if the oven will go high enough to get it to the temps you need it to be. Hopefully he'll chime in on this.I'm assuming you just want the table flat and don't care if the repairs show. if you are trying to make the repairs invisible, that's another matter and much harder to accomplish..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:@ DSW - thanks Doug.  You're spot on with my overall intent.  Effect good repairs and yield a flat finish.  Perhaps, final touch up with a fine grit flapper wheel.  Basic, nothing exotic.  Considered running a small roll of Ni alloyed wire in MIG for the small divots.  The large, unsure as you mentioned.  Read about welders using gas grill for pre-heat.  My natural gas model should climb to 600F in :15.  Haven't yet figured out the pre/post heat schema."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:ManoKai,Congrats on the old Atlas/Craftsman!AH! the infamous "Arc of SHAME" shows it's ugly head once again.OK, as I always suggest.  First determine the material you have to deal with.  Is it cast iron or cast steel?  Quickest way to tell is to drill a small dimple in one of the divots (isn't going to make the damage any worse).  If the swarf comes out as a grey powder it's cast iron and if the swarf is continuous curls it's cast steel.  Cast iron would probably be best to braze, but if it's cast steel (as I suspect it is) you can TIG it with ER70 and then have the table blanchard ground flat again.  Preheat and post heat on the BBQ will help prevent any cracking and possibly control heat distortion.  Welcome to the "slippery slope" of old equipment restoration!  Show us more pics as you make progress.RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:@ Rog02 - Never knew about the detective work with the swarf.  Thanks.  Was there a particular period of time in which industry migrated from cast iron to cast steel?  Industry specific? A cost-based switch or an advance in the state-of-the-art?  Interesting.  Will def verify the top material PRIOR to any repairs.  If it's cast, will ask a buddy to braze the surface.   RSC grinding on the top would easily cost $75min here.  Prob not going to pull the trig for Blanchard.  Also will peer into my set of '50s JFL Arc Welding Foundation Lincoln Foundation Projects (Vols I-V) for any insight.  Love those references.  Best $35 a welder ever invested."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ Rog02 - Never knew about the detective work with the swarf.  Thanks.  Was there a particular period of time in which industry migrated from cast iron to cast steel?  Industry specific? A cost-based switch or an advance in the state-of-the-art?  Interesting.  Will def verify the top material PRIOR to any repairs.  If it's cast, will ask a buddy to braze the surface.   RSC grinding on the top would easily cost $75min here.  Prob not going to pull the trig for Blanchard.  Also will peer into my set of '50s JFL Arc Welding Foundation Lincoln Foundation Projects (Vols I-V) for any insight.  Love those references.  Best $35 a welder ever invested.
Reply:That's nothing!309 filler and just enough heat to get it to stick..Flap wheel when done and it will be as good as new......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I'd drill it and plug it. If you have a lathe you could turn down some cast iron rod or mild steel to .005" under the drill hole size and silver solder the plugs in with Mapp. I think brazing would look better, but might not have enough heat for that. If you don't have a lathe you could just use drill rod. The color will be different, but any repair will be. You could use a rust-bluing (browning) solution from a gunsmith's supply to get the patina on the new parts after grinding it flat.
Reply:Just me but I would fill them with some flavor of Devcon. Machine bondo.
Reply:Just me but I would fill them with some flavor of Devcon
Reply:"One thing I would think about is possibly drilling the holes thru a bit smaller so there's a 'key' to hold it in"When I am forced to resort to using an epoxy based product for filling holes and gouges where adhesion alone might be questionable, I will use a ball tipped carbide burr bit in my Dremel and "undercut" a groove (key) in the sides of the hole below the surface plane.Other times when I do not have access to my Dremel or a burr bit, I will use a very small (1/16" to 1/8") drill bit and make a series of shallow bores into the sides of the hole at a very slight angle (almost parallel with surface plane).
Reply:....make a series of shallow bores into the sides of the hole at a very slight angle (almost parallel with surface plane).
Reply:Braze it.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:@ SputterFizzle - used similar structural meth(acrylate) products for u/w work.  They bond like the hammers of hell.  Solid.  Your approach was my 1st idea.  Basic.  However, was trying to "force" the use of TIG or helibrazing.  Reading that recommended pre-heats to cast iron for brazing and fusion processes are typically ~ 600def F and 1200def F, respectively.   Welcome 'CastWeld's input. No way my Weber's gun'a edge over the 700deg F mark.  Prob go Weber + MAPP to up the temp and see what Tempil and Markal show.  May rip a "light without heat" approach on this one and and apply the DevCon.The journey continues....Last edited by ManoKai; 01-19-2014 at 01:42 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Personally unless you've got access to a surface grinder I'd go the epoxy route. Any heating and welding is going to warp the table.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:@ IrishFixit - Thx. No access to RSC or mill.  Good point about warpage.  Don't want to chase that devil for this fix.   Case closed. Rip'n DevCon's Plastic Steel Putty.  Prepare the surface, apply product at 70deg F, cure at room temp for 2.5hrs, followed by a 4hr heat cure at 200deg F.  Wait 24hrs, and then sand surface.  Optimal cure in 7days.  Easy day.@ walkerweld - excellent insight bro.  On it!Last edited by ManoKai; 01-19-2014 at 03:03 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Do not discount JB Weld.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:I did an old Japanese drill press a few years back, it was in rough shape...I cleaned everything up in my electrolysis tank......I then ground away all the old oily metal I could...I put the whole thing on my gas burner stove and waited until the metal was hot enough that water skipped across it, like you were going to make pancakes.....and I used my MIG welder to  fill in the smile of shame.I ground it and welded it some more, never a lot at once, maybe only 3/4" or so, I kept the whole thing warm while welding it.More to do yet.....Is it perfect, nope, but it is an improvement for sure.You can see my whole restoration on my site >>Here<<I use the drill press for woodworking mainly, so the table did not have to be perfectly flat, and I put a wooden auxiliary table on as well, for my wood working, but that was a few years ago and the welded up table is still just fine.No expert here at all, and YMMV but that is what I did, and it worked.Cheers!Dragon D-150 Arc WelderHobart Handler 175 Set up with 100% CO²WT-60 Plasma Arc Panasonic TIG Star YC-300TWX-2 Panasonic YX-0092UW Water Cooler for the TIG
Reply:@ Stu - nice.  Post-repairs, did you sweep the top with a drop indicator from any reference plane to measure flatness?Adding to the body of knowledge.... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...iquid-Aluminum."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:[QUOTE=Rog02; Quickest way to tell is to drill a small dimple in one of the divots (isn't going to make the damage any worse).  If the swarf comes out as a grey powder it's cast iron and if the swarf is continuous curls it's cast [/QUOTE]Thought by most of the posts here that I was the only one to use this method. It has always worked for me too.
Reply:The Atlas arrived.  Heavy metal.  Rip'd the twist drill into one of the major diameter divots.  Swarf'd grey power, vice DNA strand. Go'n DevCon all over her tomorrow.~ cold smoke has fallen, so today we ride!  ~Last edited by ManoKai; 01-29-2014 at 04:34 AM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Never used DevCon myself, but I think it's the right choice here.My name's not Jim....
Reply:I realize it's a welding forum but the table on my Delta was broken and had been poorly repaired.I looked here,http://owwm.org/index.phpFound a really nice production table for 35.00......not worth the materials and electric to fix,now I use the old one to hold my drill index and chuck key.
Reply:"Arc of Shame" that's hilarious!
Reply:Braze would be low on the list- way too much heat needed. I'd light a tig arc on one of the holes and see if it makes a puddle, if puddle looks good add nickel if you got it or 309. Fill one hole at a time, next hole when its back to room temp. If tig puddle is ugly I'd stick weld with nife55, same as above- one at a time.Work quickly with either process, to limit heat. ni99 is soft to grind or machine but a little expensive. ni55 will machine or grind, but the 309 will probably be grind only. PM me if you need.PeterEquipment:2  old paws2  eyes (that don't look so good)1  bad backYou can also drill the holes cleanly, cut threads into them with a tap and put cast-iron plugs in them and grind them flat.
Reply:@ castweld - Cool approach.  PM sent.Mined this article discussing Ni-Fe-Mn 44 from '85.  The "44" provides laydown without pre-heat to ductile irons.  Solid.   www.aws.org/wj/supplement/WJ_1985_03_s79.pdf.  Will read up on the "55" electrodes.  Mahalo."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Maybe I'm missing something but if you aren't concerned about restoring it to it's original condition and just need a flat surface, how about just a piece of plate cut square to fit over the old table, cut slots or holes in it for clamps so it's usable, drill and tap 4 holes and run bolts up through the slots in the original table into the tapped holes of the new plate.  Use bolts that are long enough to come slightly above the new plate surface and grind them flat.A lot more work than the Devcon but you get steel surface.  The other idea I liked is take it to a machine shop, drill out the holes, tap and plug.  Case closed.Btw, very cool of you to restore an old piece of good machinery and let it work again!
Reply:@ castweld - your idea of using 309L, potentially 308L, worked well thus far.  Filled 6ea of the minor holes via TIG w/ 308L.  Had no 309L in stock.  Tomorrow, planning to go s-l-o-w and attempt the major divots.  The major volumes are probably 8-10 times the volumes of the minor.  Appreciate your PM brah!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Glad its working for you. To reduce heat input you may consider filling the larger holes with some solid steel stock and then weld with your ss filler.PeterEquipment:2  old paws2  eyes (that don't look so good)1  bad back
Reply:Originally Posted by Sputter FizzleJust me but I would fill them with some flavor of Devcon. Machine bondo.
Reply:Repairs complete.  The 9ea minor divots were TIG'd w/ 308 filled; the 3 ea major divots were patched with JBW.  1# of DevCon would have cost the same as 20# of Lincoln 7018s.  Pass.  No dice on TIG'n the major divots sans steel stock.  One of the major's was deep, and a quick TIG pulse showed me burn-through on the backside was imminent.  The surface is 'bout where she needs to be.  Level with only minor flesh wounds.  Mahalo to all for your insight and tech assist.  Attached Images"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:The drill press table looks fine. That's what I would have done with it. I use JB weld for minor issues all of the time. I have a 5 hp Briggs and Stratton motor that I'm refurbishing for use in a Replica motor scooter that I'm building. There was a small chunk missing from one of the flywheel fins, no doubt caused by rough handling by a previous owner. It wasn't a big deal and I could have let it go except it sort of bothered me. I thought about using some 308 or 309 with my TIG machine but I didn't want to put any heat on the flywheel since it has a magnet in it. JB Weld rocks! That stiff gets as hard as a rock within 24 hours. I use the Kwik version when I have to sculpture with it since it starts to set within 6 minutes. I've used it on my own Craftsman drilling table to fill a hole many years ago and it's still in there. I also used it on small defects on my Webb Milling Machine table and, after several years of use, you have to look very close to see it. Before: After, before finish filiing: Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:@ gnm109 - For sure!  That JBW holds, most of the time, like the hammers of hell.  What replica motor scooter you rock'n?  Have a cool new *ultra-mobile* drill press fixture in the worx for this vintage drill press table.  Gun'a be rad!Last edited by ManoKai; 02-14-2014 at 05:44 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ gnm109 - For sure!  That JBW holds, most of the time, like the hammers of hell.  What replica motor scooter you rock'n?  Have a cool new *ultra-mobile* drill press fixture in the worx for this vintage drill press table.  Gun'a be rad!
Reply:@ gnm109 - nice project!  Sick bends and attention to detail.   You better rock a video of her when she's rolling.  Blaze on.."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ gnm109 - nice project!  Sick bends and attention to detail.   You better rock a video of her when she's rolling.  Blaze on..
Reply:I know this is an old thread and you may have found out by now, but the drill press was made by King-Seeley, not Atlas. I have the same model. It's a good one. Bearings are readily available if you ever need them.new hereJim
Reply:I can't help or give advice on repair.. But I can tell you the old Atlas is one Heck of a drill press! I've had mine for 10 years (bought at sale for 50) and I've drilled many of heavy and hard drills with it and it never let me down.
Reply:@ Jim Davis - good to know.  Thanks!Decided to integrate the Atlas drill press table to my existing 3' x 4' x 1/2" welding n fabrication table for use with a Jancy Slugger Holemaker II MagDrill.  Heavy Duty all the way.  Designing a beneath-the-table, stowable and swing out arm/fixture to accept the Atlas.  Recently acquired at no cost a solid 2-3/8" OD x 24" length rod of Inconel 625. $$$.  The rod fits like a glove in the Atlas' interface .  Now, need to consider pillow blocks and fixturing to support the system's functionality and operation.  Stoked! Attached ImagesLast edited by ManoKai; 04-10-2015 at 03:17 PM.Reason: syntax"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:My vote would be to leave it alone and stop worrying.  ANY repair will visually show...and may make the table worse.  Holes like that don't really screw anything up regarding use so are not worth fiddling with.If you do any kind of heat-based repair, you really need to have the table surface ground.  There are some ways to fake it on the cheap but cupping or crowning on a press table will eventually drive you NUTS so consider that part of the deal for any weld or similar repair.On something for "display" (I do some restorations for a local museum for example), I'd live with it and search for a donor table over time.  You could even use one that is only "close enough" as no one would notice the difference.If it just annoys the hell out of you simply by existing, JB or similar epoxy type fix or one of the low temp fixturing alloys poured to fill the divots and scraped smooth.Call it "character" and stop worrying
Reply:^ see post #33.  Repairs completed in Feb 2014.  You're late to the fight."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:JB weld or devcon epoxy will fix this.Not really a problem,looks like most drill press tables Ive used over the last 60 plus years.I use a vise so my tables have no divots in them.Arc welding might start some cracks.