? homemade argon dryer AIN'T WORKIN ?

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Well, I was expecting to report victory from using my new argon dryer but now that it is in service, I can see no difference.  I'm still getting my electrode "beard".   That is after about 40 minutes of TIG arc time.On top of that, I won't be using my Syncrowave now for as big a project for another year or two.  I'm an amateur welder and I use it mostly for welding the A500 structural steel (for a house I'm building) that you can see in the background.   Now it's back to masonry for another year or two.I have a theory that maybe the water (if it really is water) is in the machine, not from the bottle or the lines.   When I put away the welder Itypically leave the back gas port connected, but I remove the torch.   This time I forgot to plug up the front gas port.  So it's been sitting in my garage all winter with a way for water to get in.  Just a theory.Maybe some of you know of another possible reason?  Maybe for some odd chemistry reason the orange desiccant will not work in the presence of argon?  Can you get a this from too short a post flow?  I often skimp on my post flow.The idea for the dryer came from Jamie over a WeldingTipsAndTricks.com, but I went much further than his version. I used all rigid parts and decent threaded connections. With this version you don't have to undo leak-prone connections to change the desiccant; you just unscrew the bottom plug. Please give Jamie's video a watch though, just as a primer. DISCLAIMER:  BESIDES THIS THING NOT WORKING FOR ME, the main thing I am unsure about in this project is really how much pressure this assembly can take. I am not a testing lab. I have it mounted at the back of my welder, and the back of the welder is against the wall, so if it ever EXPLODED it would probably not cause any physical harm. Here's a parts description from the top down:   rubber argon hose Weldcote ARG14x10 1/4 ID male/male $18.66 on eBay   brass 1/4 hose barb to 3/8 MNPT (#1) $1.57 on eBay   brass elbow, 3/8 male to female $4.95 on eBay   brass bushing 1/2 MNPT to 3/8 FNPT $1.95 on eBay   PVC bushing 1/2 FNPT to 1" spigot Spears 438-G series $6.42 on eBay   clear acrylic tube (2 ft) OD: 1.375 ID: 1.125  wall: 1/8 $17.62 per foot   PVC tee sch 80 1 x 1 x 1/2 (grey) $2.86 on eBay   PVC reducer bushing 1/2 slip to 3/8 FNPT (grey) $1.12 on eBay   brass 1/4 hose barb to 3/8 male NPT (#2) $1.57 on eBay   PVC pipe 1" sch 40 (white) (already had on hand)   PVC adapter 1" sch 80 female slip to 1" FNPT (grey) $6.71 on eBay   PVC threaded plug 1" MNPT (grey) $2.26 on eBayother parts:   Loctite 1363118 epoxy plastic bonder $5.99 on eBay   1 quart orange desiccant $25.49 from Amazon   1" plastic conduit clips (2) Arlington NM2025 $1.68 ea on eBay    Zurn 3/8 PEX ear clamps (2) (had on hand already)   11/16 dia stainless faucet screen (had on hand already)   nuts/bolts/washers to mount the conduit clips (had on hand already)   total not counting on-hand parts and tools: $118If I had to do this again, I probably would have tried using clear rigid PVC tube rather than acrylic tube.  Yes, there is such a thing, although I'venever got my hands on a sample.The pros of clear PVC:a) It's sch 40.  No machining required.b) You can use normal PVC glue, no special acrylic epoxy required.c) It's around half the price of acrylic.  Even comes in sch 80.The cons of clear PVC:a) It's not really clear, at least not glass clear, and has a slight blue tint.The most difficult part of this project was gluing joints between the clear tube and the PVC. Acrylic tube does not come in sch 40 dimensions, so for the acrylic-to-PVC joints you must either machine the PVC or the tube. Originally I thought it was smartest to machine the PVC fitting. I didn't want to weaken the tube. This worked for the top joint. But for the bottom, the tube was much easier to hold true in the lathe chuck. So I turned down the tube at the bottom joint. Make sure you machine only enough to get a tight fit.  You CANNOT trust the glue to fill in the gaps if you have an easy fit.  Remember that the glue acts as a kind of lubricant when wet, so if the fit seems too tight dry, it will probably be just right with wet glue.One part you cannot see in main photo is one of those little round stainless screens from a faucet aereator. This needs to be installed at the argon output, at the tee, else granules of desiccant could get into your argon line. To install the screen, take the brass barb-to-threaded adapter (#2), center the screen over the threaded end of it, then use the head of a round head machine screen screw (of a sensible size) to punch the screen into the brass cavity.  The screen will conform nicely to the inside of the brass fitting and seems to stay put without further fuss.Use a special acrylic epoxy, at least for the acrylic-to-PVC connections.  (I used it for ALL glued connections because I was too lazy to break out two different glues.)  Normal PVC glue will not work well on acrylic.Use either teflon tape or teflon paste on all threaded connections.Once you have the plastic all glued up, it would really pay to pressure test it, else you might end up losing more argon due to leaks that the thing is worth.  Screw in the PVC plug at the bottom, put a pressure gauge in one open port and run your compressor line to the other.  Ten or 15 PSI is all you need to see if you have leaks.  Brush soapy water all around the joints and look for bubbles.The orange desiccant is supposed to be healthier for you than the blue.  The blue contains cobalt.  I want to be able to dry the desiccant in my kitchen oven.  The orange desiccant turns to green when "saturated".I have always disliked the common stainless pipe clamp bands.  Instead, to secure the barbs to the hose, I used "ear clamps".  They require a specialtool to install, but they are much more neat, secure, and leak proof.  Ear clamps are commonly used in PEX plumbing systems.  When installing the clamps, don't ratchet them down all the way tight, else you will start cutting into the rubber.The plastic conduit clips work but they seem a little fragile.  If they end up breaking I could easily replace them with steel conduit hangers.  I chose the plastic because they don't stick out as much as the steel.This required I drill two 3/16 holes in back panel of my machine.  I used nuts with integral grip teeth washers on the inside so that the screws anchoring the clips could be tightened from one side.  Still, I had to take the top cover off the machine off to install the top nut (and discovered after 5 years of owning the machine that is has it's own parts drawer!).  The bottom nut/bolt goes thru the mains config cover, so that was much easier to get behind.I'm certain this design could be improved upon.  Some of my part decisions were based on what parts I already had on hand.Last edited by kajonga; 04-12-2015 at 09:11 AM.
Reply:I read your 1st post on this and thought what a crock...1st you have to understand how they get argon and some basics of things like dew point and relative humidity. You get moisture in air as a vapor. As the air gets warmer, it will hold more moisture. Same works in reverse, lower the temp, and the air will no longer hold as much moisture and it will start to condense. That would be the dew point. In really cold air, your relative humidity may be high, but the air can't hold much water at all, thus it is very dry. Also as you compress air, it looses it's ability to hold moisture. You simply squeeze the water out almost like wringing out a wet towel. Hence why compressors always collect water, especially in the summer when relative humidity of outside air is very high. You'll notice in the winter that you don't have as much of a water problem with your compressor.To get argon industrially, they liquify air by compressing it and refrigerating it. In that process, it naturally removes water. Simply compressing air to like 4500 psi takes the dew point down to something like minus 120 deg F. ( A fact I know since it applies to air used for scuba diving) You still haven't chilled it down to liquified air yet. Argon is produced industrially by the fractional distillation of liquid air in a cryogenic air separation unit; a process that separates liquid nitrogen, which boils at 77.3 K, from argon, which boils at 87.3 K, and liquid oxygen, which boils at 90.2 K. To put things in perspective, -120 deg F is  about 190 deg Kelvin. The temp at which they get liquid argon from the liquified air is about -300 deg F. Not really going to have much water in it at this point...The only way water can get into the system is thru poor fill practices. If a cylinder is left open to the air, it's possible for moist air to get inside. That or the cylinders were not dried well  when hydro'd. Most places apply a vacuum to cylinders before filling, so that any remaining gas doesn't contaminate the new fill. Air in the cylinder would definitely contaminate your argon gas. So chances of moisture in the cylinder should be miniscule to none. Combine that with a gas that is very dry to begin with and I really can't see any point to a desiccant..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You don't have any water in your welder. Mine was unused for at least 10 years when I bought it - no issues.People leave their stuff unhooked all the time, purge before starting and ready to go - in my opinion.Repointing your tungsten every 40 minutes is a minor thing - I wouldn't worry.I saw Jody's video and found it interesting - never bothered to make one though.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Big waste of time and effort..Move along folks nothing to see here.......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:If you're getting bad gas, why don't you just take it back to the gas supplier instead of trying to "fix" it?
Reply:I have never had moisture in my argon ever sounds like your supplier is not vacuuming down the cylinders before fillingMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:There was a mistake in my original post.   I get the electrode beard after about 4 minutes of arc time, not 40.   I buy my argon from a pro welder out here with me in the sticks, else I would have to make an 80 mile round trip to Asheville.    I will ask him if he has the same problem.   If not, all I can do now is call Miller.So it's impossible for water to condense in the machine?  OK.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI read your 1st post on this and thought what a crock...
Reply:I guess you didn't read your last thread where I told you how I did mine for less than $20, 10 minutes and it works great!Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleI guess you didn't read your last thread where I told you how I did mine for less than $20, 10 minutes and it works great!
Reply:Holy crap that is A LOT of work!  Mine, courtesy of Hazard Fraught store:Cheap, quick & easy to setup. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:ive never even heard or seen an argon dryer beforHigh Octane Welding
Reply:Originally Posted by kajongaSo that guy, Jamie, from WeldingTipsAndTricks, is he not to be believed?
Reply:Originally Posted by OscarHoly crap that is A LOT of work!  Cheap, quick & easy to setup.
Reply:Originally Posted by kajongaSo that guy, Jamie, from WeldingTipsAndTricks, is he not to be believed?
Reply:Originally Posted by kajongaYes, but why buy one off the shelf if you can spend hours making one, then possibly fail as well.
Reply:DSW was right, my post WAS a crock.  I talked to the the Miller rep today and he said the electrode crusting over like I described comes from the electrode oxidizing, and that is most likely caused by insufficient postflow.I left out my vitals on my original post, but I was doing single-pass 1/4-throat fillets in A500 structural steel using 215A and only about 5 sec of post flow.Miller recommends 1 second of post flow per 10 amps of current.   While I'm pretty sure I wont be using 21 seconds of post flow, I should be able start there and dial it down until the electrode "remains bright" like the manual says. I will be scrapping the dryer.   Well, that was fun.
Reply:Originally Posted by kajongaDSW was right, my post WAS a crock.  I talked to the the Miller rep today and he said the electrode crusting over like I described comes from the electrode oxidizing, and that is most likely caused by insufficient postflow.I left out my vitals on my original post, but I was doing single-pass 1/4-throat fillets in A500 structural steel using 215A and only about 5 sec of post flow.Miller recommends 1 second of post flow per 10 amps of current.   While I'm pretty sure I wont be using 21 seconds of post flow, I should be able start there and dial it down until the electrode "remains bright" like the manual says. I will be scrapping the dryer.   Well, that was fun.
Reply:Actually I wasn't thinking your post was a crock. I was thinking more that what you had been told was a crock. It's not your fault that you believed what he told you. Sorry if it didn't read that way when I 1st typed it..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveSo now test your solution and see if the beard still "grows"
Reply:Originally Posted by kajongaIt ran it for over 30 minutes of arc time, thinking it needed time to work.   Let it sit overnight a few too.   No difference.
Reply:What blend/brand tungsten are you using?  Are you using a gas lens? Do you have an extraordinarily long regulator hose and large diameter?What is your surge CFH and duration?Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.