Insurance claim, I might loose the job!!

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Ok, this guy asked me to do a quick repair on his stock trailer. He runs a petting animal show zoo or whatever. One spring hanger was broke loose so I fixed it, got paid and all was good. Wanted to get it patched to finish a gig he had that weekend.The problem lies in the fact that he wanted to file with ins co. He claims the trailer was damaged while sliding down an embankment that was wet and bent the suspension, racked the rear doors and broke a hinge. After this happened he took it to another so called welder and he half azzd fixed the hinge with a number of other sorry repairs he did in the past. I've never done an ins. Claim but what the heck. I stand to make a couple grand so no problem. It ticks me off because the reason it's broke is because of rust on the trailer. I plan to build a subframe to mount back to the axles and really do a good repair.I had the trailer at my shop outside jacked up with tires off so they could send pics to ins co. Guess what, now they need it to move some animal that's big camel or something. I'm afraid they won't bring it back and I'll be out of this job.Bottom line is I feel like they may have used me to collect money for ins claim. They haven't picked it up yet but will in the morning. I'm gonna demand payment of getting it jacked up and dealing with this. Any advice is welcome. ThanksMiller trailblazer301gLincoln sa200Miller251Miller spectrum 625Victor oxy-acc2002 Chevy duramax 3500 dually 4x4
Reply:Yep, charge them for your time, don't put the tires back on til they agree to pay you for that.
Reply:Welcome to the wonderful world of the Welding Business People Suck ...!!!!!
Reply:Yup, been doin this for about ten years and no one ever asked for ins quote before.Miller trailblazer301gLincoln sa200Miller251Miller spectrum 625Victor oxy-acc2002 Chevy duramax 3500 dually 4x4
Reply:Didn't I see a sign in your office that said $1000/day storage fee? Definitely charge for your time to get it to where it is and back on the ground and some extra for your time writing up the estimate.Reasonable storage would be justified as well and when (not if ) the customer goes ballistic simply tell him the charges will be credited against the invoice for the repair when he brings it back.Problem solved.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Yeh, right next to the sign that says (my shop my rules)Miller trailblazer301gLincoln sa200Miller251Miller spectrum 625Victor oxy-acc2002 Chevy duramax 3500 dually 4x4
Reply:Originally Posted by BlackbeardYeh, right next to the sign that says (my shop my rules)
Reply:Originally Posted by RolngthunState over rides those rules. In Michigan. No storage fees allowed unless customer is made aware of it prior. No signed written estimate, even for making an estimate, customer does not have to pay. No business license or Michigan certifications, customer does not have to pay. Business guilty until proven other wise.
Reply:You got that right!! Dot would shut it down. Hmmmm I got a cuz that works for them.Miller trailblazer301gLincoln sa200Miller251Miller spectrum 625Victor oxy-acc2002 Chevy duramax 3500 dually 4x4
Reply:Just learn to let it go. Charge a reasonable amount for what you have done before they pick it up, no storage, no bull****. Maybe they really just need to use the trailer. Let them know that you will be happy to apply that amount to their estimate of repairs when returned. Don't be calling DOT, and remember that you are likely not following state rules for trailer manufacturing/repair, and the likelyhood of you having insurance that will actually cover you on trailer repairs is pretty small. What goes around comes around, so don't be throwin' **** at your customers as they walk out the door. Also, it takes less than 10 minutes to jack up and remove trailer tires, and about the same to put them on.
Reply:Everyone gets three insurance quotes, but there is only one repair job.Don't drive them away with made up storage and such after the fact.
Reply:Kidding bout calling dot  As far as ten minutes to jack up. My shop is on a hill and I had to cut oak blocks to get it perfectly level an d ready to do the job. They insisted that I would be able to work on it before they needed it. I got it jacked up about three feet high in order to get the axles out and back in. This whole thing has been kinda shady from the start. Oh well, I'll see what happensMiller trailblazer301gLincoln sa200Miller251Miller spectrum 625Victor oxy-acc2002 Chevy duramax 3500 dually 4x4
Reply:Remember if this guy is a POS and you piss him off for "unjustified" charges that's what he's gonna tell everybody. Among other things. Every time that trailer breaks down for the next 30 years it will be your fault. Even if you take it in the shorts a little be nice. Act like that is the best thing ever. Let this guy know he is welcome to come back whenever he wants too. When he comes back for another inevitable repair, well now here it is in your chicken coop again. So do like Col. Sanders and fry his giblets a bit. Otherwise stab the phuck in the phace with a soldering iron and tell him what a sorry pos he is. Make sure it looks like self defense.Arcon Workhorse 300MSPowcon 400SMTPowcon SM400 x 2Powcon SM3001968 SA200 Redface1978 SA250 DieselMiller Super 32P FeederPre 1927 American 14" High Duty LatheK&T Milwaukee 2H Horizontal MillBryan
Reply:You know, every other shop I deal with that gives written quotes or work authorization  has some sort of disclaimer that the customer signs that applies a mechanics lien on their work and assigns them ownership of the work and or the vehicle until they are paid.If you're too informal, these sort of folks may seek you out to scrw you .
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749We used to have a regular member here who was an "expert" in just about everything under the sun, especially trailer manufacture & repair. He was some state certified ASE master, blah, blah, blah mechanic, etc, al..... Nothing the dude didn't know.. Don't believe me? Just ask him. He often posted lengthy yarns about how he would refuse to let customers who brought perspective repair jobs to him remove vehicles or trailers from his property in his "expert opinion" were unfit for road travel. They either had to acquiesce to having him make the "proper" repairs, or bring a vehicle or trailer in to tow the vehicle away, which incidentally he would also "inspect" for safe operation, etc, al, yada, yada, yada...... He would go on to cite various ethical & safety reasons, going into great detail about how state law where he lived supported this action.Try that here in Michigan & good chance you'll be arrested by the local Sheriffs department, or have a .45 automatic in your face disputing such claims. Especially in the Detroit Metro area
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Hehe. You know of whom I speak I ain't gonna say his name, lest we dig up dead bodies decently buried I haven't seen him around in a long time Tim.
Reply:@ blackbeard - reminds me of the quote, something like, "beware of false prophets, for they come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ferocious wolves."  Yes, humans are tricky.  Curious if you had a written contract with the customer, stating your terms of service for the repair.  Recommend you advise the customer that the scope of the repairs result in added cost, IAW your corporate policy.  Because that's how you roll.  Your a professional.  Your time is never free.  Best fortune with an outcome in your favor."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:I certainly do not proclaim my self to be an expert. Just learned enough from that school of hard knocks, and seen enough at other shops to suggest. You learn your state's laws before making that poop sandwich, otherwise you may end up being the one eating it. In your state you may actually have some rights as a business owner. My state, I do. As long as I followed every rule/procedure by the book. If not, it is an automatic win for the customer.
Reply:For future reference, a good way around this issue is to simply have a boilerplate contract that the customer signs that states all the charges etc. and then take a good sized deposit. Make the deposit somewhere between 25% and 50%. It should be big enough that if they take the completed job and end up not paying (for whatever reason) then it didn't cost you anything but pride to let it walk away.
Reply:Let it go and learn from it, he's not going to get a insurance claim for the damage if it's rusted out and he already had the other damage repaired.  They'll total the trailer before they pay him to get it fixed.  In the future the only insurance claims you should be concerned with is, "I wrecked this and insurance sent me a check to get it fixed."
Reply:Well the guy sent his son and some others to get it Monday morning while I was just leaving the shop to go somewhere. I'm pretty sure they're gonna bring it back this weekend, at least that's what they said. They have to get it fixed because the side of the trailer is rubbing the drop axles due to shotty work from a crack head welder. I'll post some pics when I can.As for deposit...they're gonna pay it all when/if they drop it off. Then it will be like money in the bank, my bank.Miller trailblazer301gLincoln sa200Miller251Miller spectrum 625Victor oxy-acc2002 Chevy duramax 3500 dually 4x4
Reply:They called today and it's coming back MondayMiller trailblazer301gLincoln sa200Miller251Miller spectrum 625Victor oxy-acc2002 Chevy duramax 3500 dually 4x4
Reply:That's great news.  Looks as if it's a good thing you didn't do as some of us suggested. MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Talk directly to their insurance if you want.  I did a salvage dive for two boats involved in a collision this summer.  Sent a honest bill to the insurance co.  The Co called me back and said they had never seen such a low bill.  Considering there is no competition in that field, I suppose I could bill whatever I wanted, but I went ahead and took what I billed. I'll have to research what other salvage divers charge, last one I talked to wouldn't even look at a job for under a grand. I would be honest with them and tell them about the rust, they may send an adjuster to inspect. I wouldn't let the owner try to make a profit by ripping you and them off. If a guy like that will fraudulently bill the insurance, he may decide to sue you as well some day.
Reply:One of the oldest games in the book by John Q AllAmerican is to get three or four bids on a repair and then submit the highest two to the insurance company.  Then of course the low bidder gets the job.  The worst ones for this are the contractors who use us regularly.life is goodMy father was in business long before me, I've been in business since 1995, my son will take over when I'm too old. Unless you plan to move often, reputation is very precious to your business. People will complain about price only briefly,(if it is a fair price). They will tell the tail of shoddy workmanship, or dishonesty for years to come. In the mean time, you can chose to be someone's employee, or put up with the efforts of some of your customers to beat you. Thankfully, most of your customers will want your skills, for which they expect to pay. Charge a fair price, dont overcharge, don't undercharge,( if you plan to be in business long term, you need an income). Bite your tongue most of the time, what you say will be used against you,( probably misquoted).  Learn from the con artists, don't let them fool you twice.Find a good lawyer, hope you never need to use him.When you find yourself in over your head, be honest with your customer that you are still learning. Sometimes they are willing to accept that your other attributes outweigh this problem. Be a problem solver, if the problem is one you can solve, solve it. Don't annoy your customer with every bump in the road.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749We used to have a regular member here who was an "expert" in just about everything under the sun, especially trailer manufacture & repair. He was some state certified ASE master, blah, blah, blah mechanic, etc, al..... Nothing the dude didn't know.. Don't believe me? Just ask him. He often posted lengthy yarns about how he would refuse to let customers who brought perspective repair jobs to him remove vehicles or trailers from his property in his "expert opinion" were unfit for road travel. They either had to acquiesce to having him make the "proper" repairs, or bring a vehicle or trailer in to tow the vehicle away, which incidentally he would also "inspect" for safe operation, etc, al, yada, yada, yada...... He would go on to cite various ethical & safety reasons, going into great detail about how state law where he lived supported this action.Try that here in Michigan & good chance you'll be arrested by the local Sheriffs department, or have a .45 automatic in your face disputing such claims. Especially in the Detroit Metro area
Reply:Sounds like this truck driver slash ex heavy truck master tech . He had a brake chamber that blew out a pancake . After telling him over the phone how to cage it or back of the brake and then pinch off the line to the parking side he says he will look at it . After 3 or 4 phone calls he still cant figure out why the brake still drags. So I drive about an hour to get there and check it out . Turns out he turned the adjuster in so tight he broke off the hex head . After cutting the clevis off the slack adjuster and pinching off the hose I figure he is good to go . No such luck, the idiot didn't even FK up on the hub that was bad . Best part was the whole time he was telling me how to fix it . Only thing I could figure was he watched a few too many episodes of Ice Road Truckers.Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:Originally Posted by 70ChallengerI'm an ASE L1 certified master tech and as far as I know I have no right what so ever to not give a vehicle back that is unsafe. I do however have to make sure it is clearly stated on the repair order that it's unsafe. (Which I usually do multiple times). And as for having to inspect the pickup vehicle... That's awesome. That's like saying if a friend or anyone for that matter brings a customer in to get their vehicle their car also has to be inspected. ASE is not a state thing. It's a independent company that takes money to help show your competent to make repairs, which is a piss poor system but that's really all there is so that is what people look for. Pay the money, rule out two of the four multiple choice answers and you have a 50/50 shot at getting the question right. Iirc you only need an 80% to pass. And it still doesn't mean you can actually fix a broken vehicle when it comes in on a hook. Yet there are still guys that can't pass the tests. Just because a shop advertises its ASE certified does not mean all of its people are and there is chance the person working on your vehicle may not be. A lot of shops are going the way of only needing 1 or 2 A techs to fix the broke stuff and the rest of the B / C uncertified/unqualified techs to do the "easy work".  Just something I wanted to share because it's kinda shady. And it seems most people believe that if there is an ASE sign up they are at least getting that, which is not always the case.
Reply:That's what the service manager is for, I'm just the dummy in the back. If I'm talking to people I'm not wrenching/making money(being flat rate). And trying to explain something to someone that doesn't understand really sucks when it costs you money, or having people tell you how to fix what they think is wrong because they saw it on the internet.Millermatic 135Craftsman 7 Hp 80 Gallon           2 stage compressor
Reply:I've never done it, I guess it just depends on how dangerous the problem is for other people on the road.
Reply:I pass on a lot of jobs like that. Not a week goes buy where someone wants me to weld a crack on their motorcycle frame, fix a wheel, weld a control arm. I need money as much as the next guy but I wont touch any critical parts that go on the road.www.performancealuminumfabrication.com
Reply:Well, the dang guy must've lied to me. He hasn't brought it back yet.Miller trailblazer301gLincoln sa200Miller251Miller spectrum 625Victor oxy-acc2002 Chevy duramax 3500 dually 4x4