Straight DC aluminumm

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Got a couple semi conductor parts to weld up yesterday. I use Lab grade Helium and DC- on these parts because of the thickness and clearance issues, also this type of weld has a better pen than by using AC and having to keep the bead tight.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Yeah I saw the start of a crater.......This set up runs so hot I didn't worry about a little blem....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Looking good Bill!  I cant even get helium in NY, any problems in Cali?I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Bill you're the man when it comes to Tig welding aluminum! I'm not even on the same planet as you when it come to Tig welding. Here is my first attempt at Tig welding aluminum on DC with helium. I was shocked at how little amps it takes, compared to argon. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I would love to try this if a 55cf tank of helium wasn't $100 for just the fill Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleI would love to try this if a 55cf tank of helium wasn't $100 for just the fill
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW$100 sounds low. Keep in mind many times when you ask about getting helium, most place automatically assume you want to fill balloons. That is NOT the same helium you need to do what BC is doing.
Reply:As I understand it, balloon Helium has oxygen mixed in so you can inhale it and talk in a child's voice without killing yourself.B_C, you need to fill in that crater in the middle of the wooden table."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleYou can't use the same helium for balloons for welding?
Reply:Looks good. I tried welding 1/8" aluminum with DC- and argon this morning. It went horribly. Switched back to AC.
Reply:When I researched the lab/scientific grade vs. commercial grade Helium, the difference is something well under 1% ( in fact it may have been the difference between 99.9% and 99.999%). The difference is significant when welding with high Helium mix ( or with pure helium as shown in this thread).I did not find the balloon helium in my locale had the oxygen intentionally mixed in as mentioned by DSW.  The balloon grade helium is AKA the commercial 99.9% purity (and like I said, it will not give good results without diluting with argon - apparently the typical impurities are very reactive).  It can really work wonders for argon though when mixed in as high as about 33%, though, IME.  Going higher you will get a burning red arc and lots of smoke/soot - and lose puddle control - not good.  (And generally will not be able to get DCEN aluminum results like BC here. The 99.999% He also costs $140 for a 330cf refill last I checked for my price locally, versus about $100 for the 99.9% balloon/commercial grade.  Wouldn't surprise me if prides rose a bit since I checked last.(Looking very good as usual by the way, BC! Is that with any wire brushing afterward?)Last edited by jakeru; 10-25-2013 at 02:30 AM.
Reply:Ahh we have a big job coming up where we basically make a 4' or so "bath rub" The walls are around 3" thick with a nice bevel... They get quite a few passes on them. Maybe if I show them I can weld I can play around and relieve the welder a bit... Last time we made these I practiced quite a bit and felt like I got it down OK.not a great pic but it looked decent. 3 passesHTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:B C's wife buys hi anything he wants as long as he makes a profit and hands over the cash. Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:WHOOO HOOO.Found a local place to fill my 55cf with helium. $38+taxHow many amps do you typically use for DC- on say 1/4" aluminum? I'll have to get some scrap too and wire up the 220v.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleWHOOO HOOO.Found a local place to fill my 55cf with helium. $38+taxHow many amps do you typically use for DC- on say 1/4" aluminum? I'll have to get some scrap too and wire up the 220v.
Reply:Just a thought:  It should be obvious that you don't use the same helium to weld with that you fill balloons with!  Your weld would float away!  Sorry guys couln't resist!On a serious note:  Thanks for sharing this info, I didn't know there was a difference (that is why I love this forum) and I wonder how many guys working behind the counters at our local welding supply store know there is a difference!  And if they do know there is a difference, do they take the time to inquire as to which helium you want!I suppose the lesson learned is that a welder should not go into a lws looking like a clown!Thought to ponder:  Is a good woman the same as a "good" woman?Some kind of Big Blue constant current welding machineAnother smaller yet, Blue machine (it's got wire in it)
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Remember, he gets pie too!!Awesome as always.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleWHOOO HOOO.Found a local place to fill my 55cf with helium. $38+taxHow many amps do you typically use for DC- on say 1/4" aluminum? I'll have to get some scrap too and wire up the 220v.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleWHOOO HOOO.Found a local place to fill my 55cf with helium. $38+taxHow many amps do you typically use for DC- on say 1/4" aluminum? I'll have to get some scrap too and wire up the 220v.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeLooking good Bill!  I cant even get helium in NY, any problems in Cali?
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloIt will really depend on some things (Doesn't it always 'depend' on something every damn time??!!) Start up arc will have a bit to do with it. A weak/ low starting voltage might make it really hard to connect an arc and get it going. Also, the DC puts the heat all in, so the heat really stays in there. 1/4" can be done pretty easily, and if you were running a foot pedal, you'd set up at 200A and pedal back, and move forward and SHOVE filler in..... this is very fast welding. Last time I monkeyed with it, I think the machine showed my last amps at around 175 on 3/8" material. All I have on my machine is 200A, so that is what I ran with; crank it up and then step it back. Much, much less amperage needed than welding with AC.
Reply:Originally Posted by akabadnewsLooks good. I tried welding 1/8" aluminum with DC- and argon this morning. It went horribly. Switched back to AC.
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruWhen I researched the lab/scientific grade vs. commercial grade Helium, the difference is something well under 1% ( in fact it may have been the difference between 99.9% and 99.999%). The difference is significant when welding with high Helium mix ( or with pure helium as shown in this thread).I did not find the balloon helium in my locale had the oxygen intentionally mixed in as mentioned by DSW.  The balloon grade helium is AKA the commercial 99.9% purity (and like I said, it will not give good results without diluting with argon - apparently the typical impurities are very reactive).  It can really work wonders for argon though when mixed in as high as about 33%, though, IME.  Going higher you will get a burning red arc and lots of smoke/soot - and lose puddle control - not good.  (And generally will not be able to get DCEN aluminum results like BC here. The 99.999% He also costs $140 for a 330cf refill last I checked for my price locally, versus about $100 for the 99.9% balloon/commercial grade.  Wouldn't surprise me if prides rose a bit since I checked last.(Looking very good as usual by the way, BC! Is that with any wire brushing afterward?)
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CYeah I saw the start of a crater.......This set up runs so hot I didn't worry about a little blem....
Reply:Another tip for DC- aluminum is sharpen the tungsten like you would for steel but make a small FLAT spot on the end and it will spread the heat with better results than a sharp point.....maybe sharp for a root pass then the flat spot for the next pass...especially on thick material....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rockwill straight argon work for this? also whats the recommended tungsten?R.T. Welding LLCOn Site ServiceColumbus, NJ
Reply:Noob question but will running dc and helium on aluminum affect the strength of the weld? I used to tig aluminum before but sadly I'm completely lost on the actual "mechanics" behind the process.
Reply:I don't believe pure argon will work satisfactorily on DCEN aluminum.  My understanding is that the arc temperature doesn't get hot enough to melt the aluminum oxides, so you encounter a surface oxide problem doing that.Pure argon works on DCEP though (it's a very limited process, though).  AC really is best suited for most aluminum applications.Helium makes arc starting much more difficult, which can be completely solved by using a smaller diameter and doped with easy-starting rare earth components (lanthanum, thorium, or cerium - and between those, I'd have a small preference to 2% lanthanated.  Ceriated is I believe a bit easier to "cold start", but  with a touch of heat, lanthanated starts excellently.)Helium also conducts heat away much more readily, which seems to explain why small diameter tungsten seems to have such ungodly amp carrying ability when helium is involved.Last edited by jakeru; 10-30-2013 at 02:12 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruI don't believe pure argon will work satisfactorily on DCEN aluminum.  My understanding is that the arc temperature doesn't get hot enough to melt the aluminum oxides, so you encounter a surface oxide problem doing that.Pure argon works on DCEP though (it's a very limited process, though).  AC really is best suited for most aluminum applications.Helium makes arc starting much more difficult, which can be completely solved by using a smaller diameter and doped with easy-starting rare earth components (lanthanum, thorium, or cerium - and between those, I'd have a small preference to 2% lanthanated.  Ceriated is I believe a bit easier to "cold start", but  with a touch of heat, lanthanated starts excellently.)Helium also conducts heat away much more readily, which seems to explain why small diameter tungsten seems to have such ungodly amp carrying ability when helium is involved.
Reply:I was wondering if you can do DC- aluminum and just a lot of amperage with straight argon.ThanksTorchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:It is hard to add filler because of the oxide layer over the molten puddle.The easiest way to understand it is to try it....won't ruin equipment or blow up on ya......honest
Reply:I worked in the semiconductor industry as an equipment tech for many years and there is even a grade beyond what's being discussed here. We call it 5 nines helium.... yes 99.99999 percent purity. It's used for the refrigerant gas in cryogenic pump compressors. It's very expensive though and if/when we got caught using it to helium leak check the vacuum chambers we got a cussing by the boss.And I can confirm through personal experience that an adult can inhale a full breath of this stuff and talk funny for a minute without dying. Just don't repeat the exercise frequently.PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Hey wookiewelding, what was your amperage compared to welding on AC in that example?Lincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Originally Posted by papaharley03Hey wookiewelding, what was your amperage compared to welding on AC in that example?
Reply:Wookie, looks good.  Congrats of proving the "conventional wisdom" I thought I knew about to apparently not always be right.But, care to tell us your tricks to making it work?  I think most people who try it, pretty quickly find too much "skin" floating on the puddle surface.  I'd imagine lots of pre-cleaning would be mandatory, and apparently use used heavy wire brush action afterward to clean the oxide layer, I presume.  Does a bump-welding technique with the torch switch help?  (I imagine it might help - it seems to be effective on anodized aluminum with pure argon, at least in AC mode, that is.)Papaharley: "five nines" as I understand it, refers to 99.999% (not the 99.99999% you mentioned, which I suppose would be "seven nines"):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_ninesI must admit that the only grade Helium I've tried so far welding is a hair better than three nines.  Specifically, 99.95%:http://www.centralwelding.com/MSDS-P/Helium.pdf(This is AKA "commercial grade" in my area, and is the product they sell to balloon filling/ party stores in my locale, FWIW.)Last edited by jakeru; 10-31-2013 at 12:12 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CIt's getting expensive but still available
Reply:I called all the local gas suppliers and can't find helium anywhere here in SoCal for any price.  Just absolutely ridiculous.
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruWookie, looks good.  Congrats of proving the "conventional wisdom" I thought I knew about to apparently not always be right.But, care to tell us your tricks to making it work?  I think most people who try it, pretty quickly find too much "skin" floating on the puddle surface.  I'd imagine lots of pre-cleaning would be mandatory, and apparently use used heavy wire brush action afterward to clean the oxide layer, I presume.  Does a bump-welding technique with the torch switch help?  (I imagine it might help - it seems to be effective on anodized aluminum with pure argon, at least in AC mode, that is.)Papaharley: "five nines" as I understand it, refers to 99.999% (not the 99.99999% you mentioned, which I suppose would be "seven nines"):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_ninesI must admit that the only grade Helium I've tried so far welding is a hair better than three nines.  Specifically, 99.95%:http://www.centralwelding.com/MSDS-P/Helium.pdf(This is AKA "commercial grade" in my area, and is the product they sell to balloon filling/ party stores in my locale, FWIW.)
Reply:Well a few months ago the US Congress voted to externd the US helium reserve system @ $47 million that supplies half the nation's helium so not sure why no one has it?Sent w/ Tapatalk using Swype, pls excuse typosTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by middleofnowhereI called all the local gas suppliers and can't find helium anywhere here in SoCal for any price.  Just absolutely ridiculous.
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CGot a couple semi conductor parts to weld up yesterday. I use Lab grade Helium and DC- on these parts because of the thickness and clearance issues, also this type of weld has a better pen than by using AC and having to keep the bead tight.....Attachment 521011Attachment 521021
Reply:since we are talking helium here is a chart to explains the different Grades Helium Purity LevelsThese are typical purity levels and certified gases are available along with many other grades, mixes and pressures to fit your requirements.Welding / Industrial Grademinimum purity 99.995%, Max Moisture 10ppmHigh Purity 4.7 / Lasermin purity 99.997%, H2O < 3 ppm, O2 < 3 ppm, THC < 1 pmmZero Grade 4.6min purity 99.996%, THC < 0.5 ppm, O2 < 3 ppmUltra High Purity 5.0min purity 99.999%, O2 < 1, H20 < 2, THC < 0.5, N2 < 5, CO2 < 1, CO < 1, N2 < 5, H2 < 1 ppmResearch 6.0 / Chromatographicmin purity 99.9999%, O2 < 0.1; H20 < 0.2, CO2 < 0.1, CO < 0.1, THC < 0.1, N2 < 0.4, Ar < 0.5, H2 < 0.5 ppmsame chart here for ARGONArgon Purity LevelsThese are typical purity levels and certified gases are available along with many other grades and pressures to fit your requirements.Welding / Industrial Grademinimum purity 99.995%, Max Moisture 10ppmHigh Purity 4.8min purity 99.998%, max H2O 3 ppm, max O2 5 ppmZero Grade 4.8min purity 99.998%, THC < 5 ppmUltra High Purity 5.0min purity 99.999%, O2 < 1 ppm; H20 < 3 ppm, THC < 0.5 ppm, N2 < 4 ppmResearch 6.0min purity 99.9999%, O2 < 0.2 ppm; H20 < 1 ppm, THC < 0.1 ppm, N2 < 1 ppmsorry for the hijack B_CLast edited by WeldorWes; 11-01-2013 at 12:53 AM.Miller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:BC, Are you running 100% HE or a mix? It seems much harder to make a "consistent" looking weld. I was practicing a new technique that reuires a little more heat and faster travel speed. I basically feed rod and keep it on the traling edge of the puddle. I found the not dabbing it at all and just keeping a smooth in feed works good. Was experimenting with 3/32 and 1/8" 4043. Was running at around 260 amps... There is some thick stuff in the shop right now, 3-6" thick 6061.Here are a few coupons I was playing with.. Haven't done much welding lately, these are always fun for me to play with... Need to try and get some constistency down, but they feel ok.Last pic I was playing with some thin crap about .150". Left bead is AC 100% AR, right bead is DCEN 100% HE (the spot on the right of the AC bead was weird because I forgot to switch to ArgonAround 170 amps, using the pedal a bit.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.