Choosing plasma for 1/2" CNC pierce

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I am about to get or build a table setup and need a plasma that can regularly pierce 1/2" carbon steel.  The issue; I am limited to 1 phase 220v.  From what I have seen I am going to need 100 amp-140 amp machine depending on manufacturer.  Most of which are 460v 3 phase.  Most of the auto line stuff in that realm is 3 phase.  I run a phase inverter for a few machines, but I know with the amp load its a bad option for this function.  You guys have any suggestions?ThanksLots of toys.
Reply:a freind of mine has a cnc plasma and he has a hypertherm 1000, after seing that  1/2 plate. i would recommend the hypertherm 1250 . or the new powermax 85 they have out
Reply:80 amps will pierce 1/2.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I have the opposite problem you have, I have three phase power and have a single phase Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 151 on my cnc table. Does a good job on 1/2". It will do a 3/4" pierce.  I wish it was three phase. My Cutmaster 102 (much newer) can do either single phase or three phase and a bunch of voltages which makes it a much more versatile machine.
Reply:You will need a 60 amp breaker I am pretty sure.Also, the new powermax 85 are awesome.If you want to spend more money you can get the HP series which is below the HD. It gets confusing.They have the true cut which starts at 30,000 and then they have the powermaxes which are around 2500 but then they have the hp or hd series and it is 17,000Ask about it. You are going to get nitrited heated edges with the powermaxes if you don't mind that..
Reply:Take a look at CNCZone, and find Jim Colt, he will get you in touch with an engineer who will get you pointed in the right direction before you get yourself jammed on the wrong machine.  It's entirely possible to miss-spend thousands and still be unable to accomplish your task.  BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:I appreciate the feedback.  I have been on cnczone alot and getting all my direction together.  I was just looking for some real life feedback from one of you guys on here.  Power is not a problem, my shop has a 600 amp service.  When I built this place the local electrical service provider met me out here and did a line survey.  He said that if I build the shop I said I was going to (with plans of further construction onsite) they would get 3 phase to me.  He said it was in the budget for expansion out here, we are only talking about a 2000' run or so.  When it came time to get the service installed I talk back to the same guy.  He then told me they changed their minds and it would be $50K to run the 2000' to my shop.  I have been red assed about that ever since.Lots of toys.
Reply:You can't compare hand piecing vs machine piercing.. With machine you are coming in perpendicular to the material which wears on the consumables different than coming in on an angle.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireI have the opposite problem you have, I have three phase power and have a single phase Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 151 on my cnc table. Does a good job on 1/2". It will do a 3/4" pierce.  I wish it was three phase. My Cutmaster 102 (much newer) can do either single phase or three phase and a bunch of voltages which makes it a much more versatile machine.
Reply:After looking further it appears that the "thermal dynamics cutmaster A120" is offered in a 1 phase 230v machine.  And the capacity looks fine to edge cut to over 1" with 3/4" rated pierce.  That would be right in the wheel house to cut 1" baseplates and production pierce 5/8".  We do mostly column and beam fabrication, so we cut and drill ALOT of W beam bolt plates and 3/4"-1" baseplates.  I am capable of ramping up the work load more, but really need something like this to supplement all the mag drill work currently.  Any opinions on this machine or a competitive model?  ThanksLots of toys.
Reply:I have a Miller Spectrum 2050 and plan on using this machine for when I get my CNC table working.  Has anyone used this machine for that type of work?        -Greg---No good deed goes unpunished---
Reply:A Hypertherm Powermax45 (45 Amps, shielded consumables) will pierce 1/2" plate if used on a cnc machine with a good torch height control system. You do not need 100 Amps to pierce 1/2" plate. There also are the Powermax65, Powermax85 (65 and 85 amps) that will have higher duty cycle and faster speeds if necessary.These Hypertherm systems will all operate on single phase power, and are among the most efficient plasma cutters avaialble with low input current requirements and excellent ouptput power and duty cycle. The added advantages of the Hypertherm systems?1. Made in the USA by employee owners.2. Longest consumable parts life in the industry.3. Hypertherm is the worlds largest producer of plasma cutting equipment.4. Best support.I have a Hypertherm Powermax45 on my home shop cnc machine. I use it often on all materials up to 5/8". Incredibly nice cut quality for an air plasma system!Jim Colt
Reply:Jim, I appreciate the feedback.  For the price differences I would rather spend more and get the added capacity, IPM, and duty cycle.  What I would be doing would be considered production when it runs.  I think the powermax 85 or 1250 looks like a good solution.  I guess the 1650 is where the big price jump is.Lots of toys.
Reply:It is a wise decision to have extra power, which also provides better duty cycle. FYI......it is very difficult to find a new 1250, there may be a few in welding dealers inventory. The 1650 is 3 phase only. When you look at the kW input required to produce 100 Amps a a respectable operating voltage (arc length).....it does not make a lot of sense to supply the system with single phase power as the cinductor sizes start to get pretty large!If you look at the specs on the new Powermax85 (can operate on single or 3 phase) wou will see that the duty cycle is higher than the 1250, and due to better torch technology the cut thickness and speed is pretty close to the 1650.Jim Colt
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcoltThe 1650 is 3 phase only. When you look at the kW input required to produce 100 Amps a a respectable operating voltage (arc length).....it does not make a lot of sense to supply the system with single phase power as the cinductor sizes start to get pretty large!Jim Colt
Reply:The Cutmaster 151 will draw about 92 Amps on a 208 volt single phase input when cutting its maximum recommended thickness. That means building wire sizes of #3 Awg, at least a 100 Amp breaker, and a cord of probably #2 AWG to run to the machine. That type of wiring adds quite a bit of cost for most small shop or portable users. Hypertherm looked at the size of the market for 100 Amp single phase plasma systems , and decided that it there was very little demand.....so the 1650 was only offered in a 3 phase version. New torch technology such as Hypertherms "conical flow" nozzle and shield assembly bring the new Powermax85 into almost the same thickness and speed levels as a 100 Amp air plasma.....with easier to deal with size and input circuitry.It doesn't seem that long ago that it took a 100 Amp plasma to cut 1/2" steel.......today we can do a great job on 1/2" with a 45 Amp air plasma. That improvement is due to pushing on the laws of physics to extract maximum performance from a plasma torch! Jim Colt
Reply:Hey Jim Colt, If your new nozzle can get that kind of performance... I'd be game to upgrade either my torch or the entire machine.I have a single phase cutmaster 151 but I'd really prefer a three phase machine. I'm wondering what kind of Hypertherm I could replace it with to get consistently into the 1" pierce arena. My chart says the 1" pierce is not recommended with my machine. As a test I made a 1" test pierce and cut. The pierce was painful but once pierced it did fine.  It had a lot of slag that cooled on the upper... this caused the torch to drag and wandered the scrap a bit. Any recommendations would be welcome. Can I pre-drill the pierce locations or maybe adjust adjust something to pull these off? I have a few 1" parts to do this week and I'd like to use the plasma if possible.Never tried an inch pierce before today because it said it wasn't recommended... it looks like it may be possible with some tweaking or maybe I'm just cooking my consumables.  Attached Images
Reply:There really aren't any (low cost) air plasma systems that can pierce 1" steel without damaging their consumables. The Hypertherm 1650 is rated to pierce 3/4", and while I have no doubt it can pierce 1" if it is used on a cnc with a good quality THC that can set the pierce height, then index down to cut height as soon as the pierce is complete.....but I would expect shortened consumable life it it had to pierce 1" on a production basis.That being said, I did a job with my little Powermax45 that required over 80 pierces on 5/8"....which is way beyond its rating of 3/8" piercing. I programmed just the pierce holes on one drawing....let the 45 pierce all 80 pierces, then I pulled up the cut file, put a new nozzle in the torch, and knocked the top pierce slag of the plate...and let the torch start on all of those pierce holes.....it worked great. You may be able to do that with your Cutmaster.....use an old set of consumables to pierce holes, then replace with new and start on the holes.Hypertherm has an HSD130 system that can pierce 1" all day long....it is an industrial liquid cooled, oxygen plasma system (not High Definition, but very nice cut quality), and it is in the $18k price range, we also have the Max200, a liquid cooled 200 Amp air plasma that can also pierce 1" all day long....it sells in the $14k price range.Jim Colt Originally Posted by forhireHey Jim Colt, If your new nozzle can get that kind of performance... I'd be game to upgrade either my torch or the entire machine.I have a single phase cutmaster 151 but I'd really prefer a three phase machine. I'm wondering what kind of Hypertherm I could replace it with to get consistently into the 1" pierce arena. My chart says the 1" pierce is not recommended with my machine. As a test I made a 1" test pierce and cut. The pierce was painful but once pierced it did fine.  It had a lot of slag that cooled on the upper... this caused the torch to drag and wandered the scrap a bit. Any recommendations would be welcome. Can I pre-drill the pierce locations or maybe adjust adjust something to pull these off? I have a few 1" parts to do this week and I'd like to use the plasma if possible.Never tried an inch pierce before today because it said it wasn't recommended... it looks like it may be possible with some tweaking or maybe I'm just cooking my consumables.
Reply:Thanks for the fast and informative reply. Originally Posted by jimcoltThere really aren't any (low cost) air plasma systems that can pierce 1" steel without damaging their consumables. The Hypertherm 1650 is rated to pierce 3/4", and while I have no doubt it can pierce 1" if it is used on a cnc with a good quality THC that can set the pierce height, then index down to cut height as soon as the pierce is complete.....but I would expect shortened consumable life it it had to pierce 1" on a production basis.
Reply:This is another 1" cut test. Used a 1/8" drill to pre-drill the pierce location. Used the THC this time and increased the speed to 80% of the chart. The chart says I should be able to do 11 ipm so this was at 8.8 ipm (80%). Looked fine but it appears the torch caught the plate or something about half way through the circle. I also tried a 1/16" pre-drill but it created a LOT of splatter on the pierce and then got caught on the slag. No picture of this.Also, note that these consumables have been trashed by numerous failed pierce attempts. New consumables will likely fix the mid way issue.Any thoughts? I think pre-drilling will work once I get it dialed in. Attached Images
Reply:Pre drilling for plasma cutting works fine. Just pretend you are edge starting. In the Hypertherm operators manuals will find the specifications for edge starting.....which usually is good for about 2x the piercing thickness. I have done 1" quite a few times with my Powermax45 (45 amps) either by edge starting or by starting on a predrilled hole.If you have ever seen a W.A. Whitney Punch/Plasma machine in operation, all of the punching is done first then an additional hole is punched for the plasma to start on....this saves the sparks and molten metal from the plasma piercing process. The cnc control starts the plasma nozzle right on the edge of a punched hole.Jim Colt
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcoltPre drilling for plasma cutting works fine. Just pretend you are edge starting. In the Hypertherm operators manuals will find the specifications for edge starting.....which usually is good for about 2x the piercing thickness. I have done 1" quite a few times with my Powermax45 (45 amps) either by edge starting or by starting on a predrilled hole.
Reply:Glad you got it dialed in......now someday we'll get you switched over to the Hypertherm side! I'm getting ready to build a cool little plow rig for my Kubota RTV900 utility vehicle. I live in NH, my driveway from the road to the house is 450' long with an 85' drop in elevation, the drive from the house to the horse barn is another 450' with another 85' drop. I plow my roads with my F250, and push back snow banks with my 43HP Kubota tractor, the utility vehicle will help out for cleanup work and light snow. The RTV has onboard hydraulics so I'll build a complete 4 way quick disconnect plow for it. The atermarket ones I have seen are either way too heavy, or way too light!Jim
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcoltGlad you got it dialed in......now someday we'll get you switched over to the Hypertherm side!