hardface welding rod

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I tried to search this by topic, but was not successful.  Does anyone have a source for hardface welding rod? It shows up occasionally in a local farm store (Big R), but it's really pricey, and when you need it you usually need quite a bit. I use it on plow landsides and other wear parts. Some parts like rock shares can be bought with hardface already welded on(for about twice the price), but others have to be done at home. Any thoughts out there? Also any help on special techniques for this rod? It always gives me fits, like gobbing up...
Reply:There's all sorts of hard facing rods out there. There are different alloys and techniques for different surfaces. Just a couple of quick ones I pulled up you can look at. Besides Lincoln and Stoody, I believe McKay also has a bunch of hard facing electrodes and wire. Most places don't stock a wide variety because it depends on what you are going to do. In areas that have a lot of steel on steel wear, a LWS may stock one thing, while out in farm country or places that deal with quarries, they may stock something completely different. Same goes with how they are applied. A wear layer on a bucket used in dirt is going to be different than one used in sand or one in rock, and that's going to be different than hard facing rollers on a dozer.http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ture/C7710.pdfhttp://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ature/C710.pdfhttp://www.cigweld.com.au/wp-content...onsumables.pdfhttp://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl...98_62-1418.pdf.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If you are asking where to buy, weldingsupply.com is a pretty good online source.  I've bought quite a bit from them when my LWS didn't stock what I needed.Everyone has their favorite online place to buy consumables, you might search for those threads.
Reply:You probably just need a general purpose hardfacing rod for moderate to severe abrasion and moderate impact. I think Stoody 35 would be a good choice but Stoody has a lot of choices.http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl..._7_Crce011.pdf
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveYou probably just need a general purpose hardfacing rod for moderate to severe abrasion and moderate impact. I think Stoody 35 would be a good choice but Stoody has a lot of choices.http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl..._7_Crce011.pdf
Reply:IME for ag wear parts its hard to beat the old Stoody torch rod.  Lays down much wider and smoother than arc rods, you can add as much or as little as you like.
Reply:I like the Stoody too, having run it in SMAW and MIG. It is expensive compared to other rods but used on pull type scraper blades it usually pays for itself very well in our soil conditions (heavy clay, sandy loam, and occasionally sandstone). Every time I have used the wire it really spatters badly, but I may not be running it right and only tried it on someone else's machine briefly. Good luck!SA-250 TMDSquarewave 200Thunderbolt AC/DC1951 G.E. welder
Reply:[QUOTE=Welder Dave;5978901]You probably just need a general purpose hardfacing rod for moderate to severe abrasion and moderate impact. I think Stoody 35 would be a good choice but Stoody has a lot of choices.good choice, stoody 35, even though its not for out of position, it works pretty well out of positon,  31 has good impact resistance for your plow, but i wouldnt go higher than 35, and 35 welds nicer than 31.   trick is next time you need to rebuild over the old bead, preheat it, vip.     i'd love to sell you about a 1/3 of a roll of 1/16 stoody super 20 that can be ran inner or outer shield.   it cost $1200 a 33lb.  roll.  used it for the guys bits who were drilling for pylons on the new 49er stadium couple years ago
Reply:123weld ..That is the reason why when guys start talking about doing hardfacing on their equipment i make them buy the rod or wirethat stuff is a major invesmentBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Thanks, some good tips here. I don't have wire feed so I'm looking at rod only. I'll look around for the Stoody 35- sounds like what I'd need, mostly dirt abrasion, some rocks.  Bent- you mentioned Stoody torch rod- is that oxy/acetylene welded on? As for price, I'll probably just have to bite the bullet...
Reply:Yes, oxy-acetylene.  The stuff I used was about 3/8 diameter steel tube, with powder inside.  You grind the steel shiny, heat it with about a #4 tip until it sweats, and melt on the rod.  With little practice its easy to put a 1/8" thick layer, 3/4 wide in one pass.  For steel about 5/16 or less, its much faster than arc welding if a wide bead is desired.  As the material gets thicker it takes to long to heat.  But for things like cultivator shovels, landsides, and many other agricultural wear parts its great.While I may still have some of the rod left, I haven't done any of that work for decades.
Reply:i'm glad your  considering the sttody 35, and i think Dave hit it on the spot.   i used to use it on ditch witch teeth, most rocks  werent the problem so much, chunks of cement, pipes etc under the ground were though.   Killdoze, bein your in ca, and if your dealing or using  this, if you don't already, maybe ought to know this guy.    He deals pretty much only stuff that is'nt real moisture sensitive or things you would be too wary of.    He's pretty pleasant guy to talk and deal w/, and he covers quite a bit of ca. or at least used to  https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...HVygnqvErz4EiwLast edited by 123weld; 06-13-2015 at 02:46 AM.
Reply:Thanks for the infoNot doing much hardfacing now a days with work coming and going and the LWS don't carry much if any at all can't blame them.You can't buy rod that sits around for months maybe years before it sells out of the small LWSBig supply companies don't even stock much and it's mostly a special order for itBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Another thing to keep in mind, some hardfacing rod runs better on AC than it does on DC. If you find it giving you fits it is worth a try on AC. Mr. HE
Reply:Well, I ended up buying a Hobart rod, mainly because it was available locally. I haven't tried it yet, but it says AC or DC reverse @ 85-110 amps. It's called Supercote Hardface. I think I'll still look for some of that Stoody torch rod, that sounds like a smooth, quick application. I'll get some to at least try out if I can find it. I'll post how this stuff goes on for me. By the way it was about $6 a pound, which kind of scares me- too cheap? I'll get a chance to try out my new(to me) Bluestar 2E. I've had it for a few months, but haven't been able to use it till I got the fuel issue sorted out.
Reply:I've used it and not a bad product; but not Stoody 35 for certain. What vendor did you use? It is no longer available around here since the welding store, (mom & pop) closed up.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:You know, I screwed up. It's a Forney rod, not Hobart. I was so busy looking at the name of the rod I didn't look closely at the manufacturer. I got it in a farm store here in Wyoming called Linton's Big R. They have a Forney rep who stops in regularly, and they carry both Forney and Hobart products
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11123weld ..That is the reason why when guys start talking about doing hardfacing on their equipment i make them buy the rod or wirethat stuff is a major invesment
Reply:Like That Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Price out some nickel rod or tungsten carbide hardfacing. Regular hardfacing will seem like a bargain.
Reply:Hi, for what it's worth, I do hard facing jobs with a Multiplaz 3500 plasma welder using plain old spring steel material, like old coils springs etc.......the spring steel melts on and gets hardened the same as for any carbon steel use.....very cheap and it doesn't take rocket science to apply it.......one day I'll give High Speed Steel coating a go too.Ian.
Reply:Puddy How many springs and how long would it take you with the moldysplat to hardface say a 3 ft wide jaw crusher or a blade on say a D-6 Cat dozer ???  ...A week ??   .A month ?? ...and where are you going to get a dump truck load of old springs ??and how long would that hardface last ....An hourYour WAY out your leagueBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:It would in no way be comparable to the "real" stuff, but there are a few DIY hardfacing methods that can work for a small job with limited demands in a pinch. Old piston rings (and O/A-welding). Made from cast iron, when it cools down relatively quickly after welding it turns into white cast iron with iron carbide (instead of graphite, as in grey cast) - not as hard as tungsten carbide that is common in hardfacing materials, but enough to have files just slide over white cast iron.High speed steel. Not quite hardfacing, but waaaay back in the day when HSS was expensive and labour was cheap you could take a piece of cheap steel, build up a corner with HSS and grind a cutting edge. Then you had a brand new cutting tool for your lathe, for a fraction of the cost of making it out of a solid piece of HSS.Obviously nothing you'd do on a large scale today. But for a small fix on a saturday afternoon when you just HAVE to get the job done and get back to work...
Reply:Yes Gson for doing small hardface jobs like i did at the factory you can also use SS rod to hardface for metal to metal wear instead of using AH-2 which i also usedApplying it using TIGI also had an oldboy tell me about mixing his own hard face rod by combining fine carbide grains into molten brass the pouring in to mold thus making his own hardface rods for O/A application ...How true this is IDK...it was one of his ..Back in the good old days storiesBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11Yes Gson for doing small hardface jobs like i did at the factory you can also use SS rod to hardface for metal to metal wear instead of using AH-2 which i also usedApplying it using TIGI also had an oldboy tell me about mixing his own hard face rod by combining fine carbide grains into molten brass the pouring in to mold thus making his own hardface rods for O/A application ...How true this is IDK...it was one of his ..Back in the good old days storiesSorry , not to get to far off. when I was at Ge ,we used a rod called RED Tip to repair end cams . It was almost inpossible to grind ,had to dress the wheel so often surface grinding it. There was a ol Gent that brought in his plow points to have renewed. Gene used Red Tip Good old RED Tip . I had a snowmobile that would not steer because the skaggs were wore out. I had Gene put Red Tip on them and that machine never failed to go where I pointed it. Sorry I don't remember much else about it other than in the shop  when Red Tip was applied I would just moan.  Everybody that used it or had to machine it , We knew what red tip ment.
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11Puddy How many springs and how long would it take you with the moldysplat to hardface say a 3 ft wide jaw crusher or a blade on say a D-6 Cat dozer ???  ...A week ??   .A month ?? ...and where are you going to get a dump truck load of old springs ??and how long would that hardface last ....An hourYour WAY out your league
Reply:Here's another discussion on the same topic we had a while back...http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ods&highlight=250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I was in to a farm supply store today and looked at a package of Hobart hard facing rods in 1/8" size. There were five rods in the package and it was $21.97!! Geez I thought to myself...... When I was doing quite a bit of that work all the rod was supplied by the mine(s). I didn't have a clue how much it cost at the time but they certainly didn't want it wasted and what wasn't used, back.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:I've pretty much run out of my old stash of hard surfacing rods and my partsman says he can't get either the Stoody's of the Eutectics I've been using in the past. He did however drop off a small package of 1/8" Wearcotes ( PN 11096)  from Shark Welding. 6 rods are over $12 so they won't be cheap ( seems none of them are) but I'm just wondering if anyone has any experience with these particular rods?250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by 560DennisSorry , not to get to far off. when I was at Ge ,we used a rod called RED Tip to repair end cams . It was almost inpossible to grind ,had to dress the wheel so often surface grinding it. There was a ol Gent that brought in his plow points to have renewed. Gene used Red Tip Good old RED Tip . I had a snowmobile that would not steer because the skaggs were wore out. I had Gene put Red Tip on them and that machine never failed to go where I pointed it. Sorry I don't remember much else about it other than in the shop  when Red Tip was applied I would just moan.  Everybody that used it or had to machine it , We knew what red tip ment.
Reply:Nobody using Shark's Wearcotes?250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I am selling some hard facing rod if you still need some. If you do not wish to purchase from me airgas has it online always.
Reply:Shipping heavy items across the border is a total PIA or I would be tempted. By the time I look at shipping, duty, and exchange it pretty much doubles the cost so there is no real advantage to doing it over the LWS. I know it's going to cost me more than what you guys typically pay, I just wanted to know if they were any good. I know the hardness rating is lower than the Eutectics I've used before. Thanks for the offer though.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes