7018 or 6010?

admin

At work I prefer to use 7018 for welding, and most of the other workers use 6010.  We weld mild steel in all positions, sometimes welding mild to cast iron.  Our book says in certain welds, the mild to cast iron, we need to use 7018.  I have trouble explaining why I think 7018 is better for all around welding, and need some talking points.  I know that because 7018 is a low hydrogen rod, its less prone to cracking.  We have a nice rod oven always full of 7018 so that's not the problem.  People just like gabbing the 6010 cause its at all the stations.  I'd rather we had 6011 myself vs. the 6010.
Reply:It's in the name of the rod... the 60 and 70 represent the tensile strength. (60,000 lbs vs 70,000 lbs per square inch)Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.
Reply:you need to give more details as to application.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Just my opinion  ..  If you cannot articulate why a certain rod or procedure is better  you really are not in a position education wise  to be attempting to tell any other workers what to do .  You don't need " talking points "  you need to spend some time educating yourself on metal and weld characteristics so that you know the subject matter before you open your mouth .
Reply:Originally Posted by FarmDadJust my opinion  ..  If you cannot articulate why a certain rod or procedure is better  you really are not in a position education wise  to be attempting to tell any other workers what to do .  You don't need " talking points "  you need to spend some time educating yourself on metal and weld characteristics so that you know the subject matter before you open your mouth .
Reply:Hello jfive, if you look at the 3 rods that you have mentioned here there are two that are somewhat similar and one that is considerably different than the other two. Someone already mentioned tensile strength, the 60 series rods are of a lower strength and in code applications involving structural uses don't meet the code requirements there. The E7018 is considered to meet code for structural applications providing that it is "handled/stored/used" properly. The E7018 and the E6011 are considered to be AC/DC rods, although most folks will not generally run the E7018 on AC current as it isn't nearly as smooth as when it is run on DC+ current. E6010 is a DC only rod and is used a lot where there are open-root fit-ups on pipe or plate and in places where repair welding is done and there isn't a lot of allowance for proper cleaning(removal of paint, dirt, grease beforehand).If you make comparisons on the ductility of the 2 families of rod that you have brought up here you will generally find that the E7018 is a much more ductile weld deposit and less prone to cracking than the 60 series rods(weld a piece with E7018 and another with E6010/6011 and smack them with a hammer or bend them around with a crescent wrench and in almost all instances the E7018 will hold-out longer before breaking. Any rod used to make a weld however, is only as good as the preparation and skill that has been applied when the weld was made. So don't short-cut the preparation and most of the time you will have minimum failures. If I were allowed to select a filler and was totally in control of the preparation and application of the weld metal I would choose E7018 of these 3 choices. If the situation was such where there were conditions where cleaning was limited and there were excessive gaps or similar conditions then I might select one of the 60 series rods. Hope this helps a bit. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:I agree Dan the fellow is politely asking a reasonable question  Clifton
Reply:Here is an electrode selection chart from AWS. I am puzzled how you became a welder but do not know the differences between rods though?Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by FarmDadJust my opinion  ..  If you cannot articulate why a certain rod or procedure is better  you really are not in a position education wise  to be attempting to tell any other workers what to do .  You don't need " talking points "  you need to spend some time educating yourself on metal and weld characteristics so that you know the subject matter before you open your mouth .
Reply:I'm sure he knows the difference, 6010 5p lincoln is RED and the 7018 is GRAY. What else is there ?  Except 6010 does a nicer job making long sleeve shirts perforated. Like stated if you have dirty material you can't beat 6010. That will almost weld through anything. 7018 is soo smooth it flows easier to make a pretty weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1I'm sure he knows the difference, 6010 5p lincoln is RED and the 7018 is GRAY. What else is there ?  Except 6010 does a nicer job making long sleeve shirts perforated. Like stated if you have dirty material you can't beat 6010. That will almost weld through anything. 7018 is soo smooth it flows easier to make a pretty weld.
Reply:Possibly i was cranky  but when the op says "  I have trouble explaining why I think 7018 is better for all around welding, and need some talking points. "  it does lead me to the conclusion i posted .  Now he does reference " Our Book "  which shows he is trying to learn his trade likely to the best resources he can and i find that admirable.   I will however stand by my opinion that a closed mouth gathers no flys ( or feet ) when it comes  to explaining ( from what i read into the post ) to the other welders onsite  what they should be doing .  Could be just me reading his post wrong because text is good for information and less so for conversation .
Reply:Each rod has it's own applications. If someone who welds for a living isn't aware of each rods applications/characteristics, they shouldn't be welding for a living.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Why would you want 6011? It is just the ac/dc version of 6010. Neither will do a good job on cast iron. If you are talking cast decorative pieces, then it is not true. Sat iron, just recycled junk, so there is usually enough steel in there for an okay weld. 7018 is the better choice there. If you are welding rusty metals then 6010 is the choice. Shop prepped clean steel, then 7018.
Reply:Almost afraid to ask any question now.  I do know the difference between the rods. first two number is tensile strength, next is postitions, and last being the weld characteristics from the coating.  I find 6011 starts better and runs smoother, but that might just be me.  I'd rather not say what I weld, or where I work, but lets just say it moves an has to deal with vibration.  I was rebuilding a part the other day and welded a piece of 5/16 angle and had to heat and bend the metal after tacking it and running a few welds while we got everything square and just trying to straighten the part a crack formed on the side I did with 6010.  I did the other side with 7018 and no crack.  I just don't see using 6010 for much more than a deep penetrating root pass.  If I weld with 6010, I always cap it with 7018, while others use it for all welding of all metals.          I'm a buy the book type of person, where I find some guys at work are more what ever works is good for me.  Our billing book, says certain repairs have to be done with 7018 (cast iron to mild steel) while plain mild steel to mild steel which is most of what we do for welding is done with stick, although we have mig welders with gas, and a machine even setup with dual shield.  I clean my work before welding, and sometimes we cut the metal with a torch, and I grind the slag away, where others would rather just weld it slag and all with 6010, rather than clean up the work and take a little pride I there work.  Keep in mind I get paid by the hour, not the job.  I am not a welder all the time, although I do it as much as I can when there is welding that needs to be done.  To me, the way people weld with 6010, I imagine its full of pockets of slag because they do so much buildup with the weld, instead of multi passes.  By dragging the rod out of the puddle and back in over and over I just imagine its hard not to.  Most guys don't even weld at the proper amps.  A lot of guys weld cold so that they don't just make holes.  If they switch from 1/8" to 5/32 they don't know much heat to add, or if switching from 6010 to 7018 for that matter.  I run my 1/8 at 120 to 125 in flat work, and turn it down to maybe 110 to 115 going uphill, and run it at 120 to 125 when doing overhead.  I do 135 to 140 on 5/32 in same respects.  Other guys just mess with it till they can get it going and not make a hole, and who cares about undercut.  LOL
Reply:Remind me never to buy anything from your shop, in case I should ever pass by.
Reply:jfive - how is it that you are not aware the whip-and-pause rod manipulation for 6010/11 is an industry norm?...provided your coworkers are performing it correctly...Who is training you guys and why are there no established methods to follow?Just knowing what the numbers mean is not the end of the knowledge needed btw.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDavejfive - how is it that you are not aware the whip-and-pause rod manipulation for 6010/11 is an industry norm?...provided your coworkers are performing it correctly...Who is training you guys and why are there no established methods to follow?Just knowing what the numbers mean is not the end of the knowledge needed btw.
Reply:give us a hint as to what you're building so we can stay far,far away.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:You guys are a tough crowd.The OP asked a legitimate question. Even provided some of his insight of why 7018 is better than 6010 which was essentially the correct answer.He seems to understand very well the poor practices of some of his fellow welders and does not seem to embrace them.Still only a few of the replies have actually provided answers and most have been insulting to him without actually providing any information.I thought the reason of posting a question in a forum was to get help, not get ridiculed especially if the question is not down right silly.The fact that someone does not seem to posses your knowledge (or what you think you know to be exact) does not justify this kind of response.The welder's job is to follow the wps he is supplied by the welding coordinator. If there is none then it not his fault.Last edited by taz00; 03-05-2014 at 04:52 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by taz00You guys are a tough crowd.The OP asked a legitimate question. Even provided some of his insight of why 7018 is better than 6010 which was essentially the correct answer.He seems to understand very well the poor practices of some of his fellow welders and does not seem to embrace them.Still only a few of the replies have actually provided answers and most have been insulting to him without actually providing any information.I thought the reason of posting a question in a forum was to get help, not get ridiculed especially if the question is not down right silly.The fact that someone does not seem to posses your knowledge (or what you think you know to be exact) does not justify this kind of response.
Reply:Originally Posted by jfiveI understand the whip/pause, and sometimes it is right, but I don't think its intended to completely weld 1/2" plate to 1/2" plate in a lap weld with one pass do you?  I would do a root pass, and do the rest with 7018 myself.  We have to patch stuff from time to time, and we have patches that are 1/2", and I've seen guys weld the thing in one pass doing a j motion till there is a weld from corner to corner.   I just transferred from one location to another this last year, and the last location, we took the time and did it right, and this new location has guys teaching the new guys how to just scab stuff together.   I was taught to take a little pride in my work where I trained and do it right the first time.  What we weld gets inspected constantly, so some look at it like as long as it holds together for a while, who cares if someone has to fix my crappy welds later, where I would like to have my welds be there down the road 20 years from now, with no one having to redo them.  Understand we do have to take a class on welding and we have to pass a bend test by welding plate with 6010 for a root pass, then fill with 7018, grind and cut off the back strip, and then cut strips out and bend them, and have them pass.   Blah blah blah.  But guys don't think that means that's how you do it at work when they get back from class, cause they see the senior workers just scabbing stuff together with just 6010.  I've seen some of the best 6010 welds at work form cracks almost instantly after welding right at the end of the weld.   I admit, some of the stuff we have to weld is just for cosmetic and doesn't get used for anything that can hurt someone if it fails, but still I don't like stuff cracking and falling off, cause they don't want to take the time and do it right the first time.  I'd rather it was done with mig every time.  Our shop is not fully enclosed, so drafts come through, and the mig welders, are harder to wheel in to spots so they never get used really.  Kingnero, you won't have any work done where I work as we repair stuff in industry, not the general public.
Reply:Originally Posted by taz00You guys are a tough crowd.The OP asked a legitimate question. Even provided some of his insight of why 7018 is better than 6010 which was essentially the correct answer.He seems to understand very well the poor practices of some of his fellow welders and does not seem to embrace them.Still only a few of the replies have actually provided answers and most have been insulting to him without actually providing any information.I thought the reason of posting a question in a forum was to get help, not get ridiculed especially if the question is not down right silly.The fact that someone does not seem to posses your knowledge (or what you think you know to be exact) does not justify this kind of response.The welder's job is to follow the wps he is supplied by the welding coordinator. If there is none then it not his fault.
Reply:I have been hanging with welders for the last 15 years and have seen all types.The only type I respect is the type that can weld like a god and follow instructions.I have kicked out great welders that did not follow instructions. It is preferable to have a weld performed by a lesser welder but with the correct procedure than a great welder which thinks he knows how to do it better.The former can be picked up by NDT, the latter most of the time cannot but can lead to failure.
Reply:How about instead of "talking points" <----WTF is this anyway? I havent heard that kinda stuff since I was forced to do Power Point presentations. You stay in your lane. Without showing pics, you seem to know what you are doing. And you say you follow the set guidelines.  Let the other guys do their thing until it DIRECTLY affects you or your job. Then bring up your "talking points" to the powers that be. Aint nothing wrong in doing it right and with some pride. If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ishIf there is movement, vibration and/or flex, and if I don't have a qualified written weld procedure to follow, I would go with the 7018 lo/hy. 6010 has its place, but not here.2013 Chevy 3500 diesel DuallyLincoln Vantage 400 Mochine55 Lincoln Shorthood sa200Tooled up...Watch it, that's hot...
Reply:Come on, spring!
Reply:I work on train cars.  Guidelines are set by a collaboration with all the railroads and overseen by the government.  I'll take some pictures of some repairs, but I hate to go and take a picture of some guys welds.  I'd have to go and get a brush too, as most people don't clean the welds when there done.  We don't weld all the time, but the last few weeks, I've had to do some big repairs which guys let me weld in my area, cause I care to take the time to do it right.  And there are guys at work that do the same, but some guys got taught by guys that don't give a ****, and just come to work for a paycheck, where I do it for that, and because I like tearing **** apart and putting it back together.  I have thick skin and take the good with the bad on the comments.  I was really just venting, after talking to what seemed like a brick wall for a few days on correct repairs.
Reply:Being a professional welding engineer that regularly takes projects from our government (and railroad is an important client), I can say that the european legislation concerning welding on train vehicles is amongst the most strict I have ever encountered. At least as strict as pressure equipment and nuclear piping.I can hardly grasp the idea of what happens over there, does that really happen the way you describe? If so, that is completely not following code, and I dare say that even without knowing your code.
Reply:Sometimes you just have to worry about yourself and what you are doing and forget trying to fix everybody else. When you get to be the boss, then establish some guidelines and provide some training.
Reply:............I'm not going to add my 2 cents as to your questions, no offense.........but I will add something on the lighter side.  Just a month ago I flew into Kalispell and rented a car and while driving through Columbia Falls I spotted a SWEEEET little 99 Expedition that only had 29 thousand miles on it..........It was sitting at Bergeson's.  Anyway, I got a good deal on  it and drove it to Nevada6 Miller Big Blue 600 Air Paks2 Miller 400D6 Lincoln LN-25's4 Miller Xtreme 12VS2 Miller Dimension 812 4 Climax BW-3000Z bore welders Hypertherm 65 and 85Bug-O Track BugPair of Welpers
Reply:Originally Posted by ExpatWelder............I'm not going to add my 2 cents as to your questions, no offense.........but I will add something on the lighter side.  Just a month ago I flew into Kalispell and rented a car and while driving through Columbia Falls I spotted a SWEEEET little 99 Expedition that only had 29 thousand miles on it..........It was sitting at Bergeson's.  Anyway, I got a good deal on  it and drove it to Nevada
Reply:........Maybe the guy who used it last did what I always do........give all the dials a little crank when I'm done just to keep the next guy on his toes6 Miller Big Blue 600 Air Paks2 Miller 400D6 Lincoln LN-25's4 Miller Xtreme 12VS2 Miller Dimension 812 4 Climax BW-3000Z bore welders Hypertherm 65 and 85Bug-O Track BugPair of Welpers
Reply:You being mean expatAs far as the op goes 6010 was what you used the first welding class in college ..Welding 101 you had to pass that to do any other welding classesOnce you master it and perfect your whip 7018 is a breezeNot that you whip 7018I still use 6010 doing repair work for root pass sometimesUnless there is a set procedure I do what needs to be done to glue some of the rusted broken stuff back togetherSent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2Last edited by killdozerd11; 03-07-2014 at 08:16 AM.Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck