Black Powder Cannon Turret

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Put together this black powder cannon turret. I bought the cannon new, it came with an axle, 2 wheels and 2 bars heading backwards to set down in the dirt before firing. Simple and good setup. Worked well for a few years but the accuracy and grouping of shots was not that good. Sat down in front of the computer and came up with a cad drawing/model for a cannon turret. Had some skateboard wheels lying around so I put them in the project as the recoil/slide mount. In theory not a bad idea, but after welding the long slide rails they warped pretty bad and I spent weeks trying to fix the problem. Used a hydraulic jack and a torch to bend them straight, then ended up grinding them parallel with an angle grinder. This did not work so well at all. In hindsight, a sturdy, rigid dovetail/slide set up would have been the answer(next project). I ended up bolting two adjustable pcs. of flat stock parallel to each other and it's fine now. The cannon slides freely and is not binding up or too sloppy. We haven't fired it yet on the turret. Finishing up some last minute details before we take it out. The big question is how far back the recoil will be. I gave it a max recoil travel of 11 inches, with a new truck shock absorbing the force. This is a prototype and all experimental, I'm sure we will run into some more issues out in the dessert. I mig and tig welded everything, let's hope it all stays together. We are shooting steel balls(golfball size) using black powder and a fuse. The 4 legs will be driven into the dirt for stability and bolted to the frame. It's a smooth bore barrel so I know the accuracy will not be all that great, but this has to be an improvement over the previous setup. The long rails and the swivel part really warped after welding. Now I know why a lot of stuff is made from a poured casting and machined to size. Learned a lot building this project. Took way too long to build, between waiting for the machinist, straightening everything after welding a hundred times and going back to the drawing board/3D model over and over. All in all, I think it turned out ok. It assembles and disassembles quickly. In the future I would like to insert some smaller barrels in the existing barrel, and experiment with smaller caliber stainless steel ball bearings as projectiles. I have to admit, it is quite a site to see and hear when it goes off. We'll start off with some light loads and work up progressively with safety being a priority. I made a few 4 X 6 plywood targets with some cross hairs on them, can't wait to see how it shoots/repeats. I'm open to any comments, good or bad. Enjoy the pics....!!! Attached Images
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Reply:nice build! i like the way you showed each step in your photos. what's the range of that cannon? btw, nice welder. i have the same one in my shop.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Interesting...I'd suggest you go take a look at a piece of field artillery or an older open mount naval gun next time you are at a museum, park or VFW post. While you did a nice job putting all of this together, it's lacking some significant items.The rifle sight is going to give you fits with the high elevation that gun is now capable of. It's fine for a direct fire, line of sight weapon like a cannon, but now you have that gun set up more as a howitzer, that can fire both directly and indirectly. For a howitzer, usually a gun like this often has two sights, often mounted off the main bore of the weapon so the left/right sight isn't blocked by the rise of the gun and you can make windage adjustments without having to lower the gun to sight and make corrections.They usually also have screw mechanisms that allow you to fine tune windage and elevation. I think when at say 100 yds, if you need to shift right or left, say a small distance accurately, you'll find the two allen screw system to be very difficult to use. If you need to shift your angle by 1 minute of angle, your system is too course to work well possibly. Also when you tighten the allens, that may just shift things enough to give you fits. Elevation wise a screw is easy to adjust and use.  They were frequently used on basic blackpower cannon to allow the fine adjustment of elevation. Guns with more vertical travel often use a rack and gear mechanism. Windage adjustment may be a bit tougher. In a typical howitzer, they only have a limited left/right screw adjustment, and the course adjustment is made by simply moving the gun itself. On a true "turret" like a naval gun that can rotate significantly, windage is often by rack and gear.I'm also not sure about your recoil mechanism. I'd strongly suggest NOT standing behind this when firing. I'd have to look closer at a real one and see how it's typically done to make any suggestions there. I'm not sure if that shock can adjust fast enough to the recoil forces to dampen the recoil, or if it won't just act solid under fire..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:looks good, sent you a PM.GeezerPower Mig 255C185 TIGBlue 175 MIGRanger 8 Kohler 20HP1974 5K Lincoln/Wisconsin Powered (Cherry)Victor/Harris O/AK 487 Spool Gun
Reply:Post of video of it in action. I like experiments. The attention to detail is great. I hope it works as planned.Last edited by forhire; 12-04-2013 at 10:20 AM.
Reply:Per DSW, I'd be interested to find out if the shock absorber is ported correctly to react to the recoil as you'd expect.  Porting in hydraulic systems is pretty finicky in how it relates to anticipated load shock, speed of bleed down, etc.  The entire theory of hydraulics rests on the fact that a fluid can't be compressed to any degree, so it can do a lot of work in small volumes in a restricted space"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Mount it on rails like zee Germans, problem solvedJust kidding, it's a cool build, and I hope it turns out"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:what corner clamps are those i want some!
Reply:Soco, I think it's one of these: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...2945_200342945Miller Dynasty 200DXMillermatic 210 w/ Spoolmate 3035Hypertherm Powermax 380JD Squared Model 32Multiple fabrication tools & equipmentFull Powder Coating Setup
Reply:That would be cool Samm. I could see building one for one of those small scale hobby railroads. Having your own operable railway gun would make you probably unique among railway hobbyists!.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:@doc....not sure of the range of the cannon...outta sight !!! Would like to get a chrony on it and get the muzzle [email protected] coming as soon as we take it out....kinda cols in dessert [email protected]'s a strong hand right angle clamp, stuff comes out perfect every time, great tool.
Reply:kinda cold in dessert now
Reply:We took the cannon out to the dessert and all went well. Fired a dozen steel balls threw it and it worked great every time. The recoil was only about 3-4 inches. The 4 ground stakes held the cannon in place the entire time(they didn't move at all). Might experiment with a lighter shock or maybe a coil over spring type lash-up. Also looking into slipping a smaller barrel in the existing one and shooting large ball bearings threw it. All in all, I like the result. If I had to do it all over again a dove tail slide mechanism for the recoil would be the way to go instead of skate board wheels. I made the base so different attachments can fit on it easily. Already have some ideas for the next med-evil attachment!!! Check out the video of the cannon in action, it's all ways a blast !!! Just created new  google account, first video on you tube, let me know if the video shows up...thanks!!!
Reply:after all the great pics on the cannon build i feel i was gypped on the video. too short.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Buddy of mine who was a machinist manufactured a "beer can" black powder mortar.  Bored out some 5" solid  high strength steel on the big lathe at work on his lunch break. 2 or 3 tablespoons of black powder would propel a beer can full of sand about 1000 yards. Great fun for the whole family....No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I made a .50 caliber cannon when I was in high school, give it to my dad for Christmas a long time ago.. You might just weld a piece of angle along the top to capture the skate board wheels, that would be easy enough..  I noticed that in the build pictures before you mentioned it.. Nice job, looks great, and looks fun..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:ZZ,Nice job man.   And a breach loader to boot.   Over all that's a lot more high tech barrel than what we've currently got.   I can see we're going to have to have a little friendly competition to see who can achieve the greatest accuracy at the greatest distance.You are missing the return spring that pushes the barrel back to the front of the mount.  Other than that it looks good!   Bob
Reply:ZZ,I don't know how much experience you have with a chronograph (I had none until here recently) but if you're going to try and crony your cannon I'd recommend you set it up around 10 to 15' out from the end of the muzzle.   We tried a few shots thru one in the 1 to 5' range and the muzzle blast was a little hard on the chronograph.  That's a pretty impressive barrel you have.  Looks to me like it's DOM tube.  I'm really curious about those horizontal ports on the front end and what effect they have on things (besides being cool look'n).   And if you don't mind sharing, I'd like to know about your loading procedure.   Are you muzzle or breach loading it?   Are you patching the round and if so with what?   What about type and quantity of propellant ?   Our last dozen or so rounds thru ours has been with a 35mm plastic film canister full of Pyrodex RS (FFG equivalent).  What is the exact ID of your barrel?   We've got a mold that will cast both 12 and 16 oz. lead balls.  The 16oz. ones are just a touch big for our barrel but might make a good fit for yours.
Reply:ZZ,What would you think of a finned, hardened steel dart sabot round as a projectile?
Reply:Hi, back in the 50's when I was a schoolboy, my father made me a small ships type cannon.The barrel, made from steel, was 4" long with a 3/8" bore.He made the barrel and I made the wooden gun carriage, same design as a ships cannon.We couldn't buy black powder legally, so we stocked up on penny fire crackers called Big Bangs and each had about half a teaspoon of powder.The loading was to insert the powder and ram it down tight with a wad of toilet paper then a steel ball bearing and more paper.At first we used Jetex fuse to set of the charge but later we just touched it off with a smouldering string.I would have to say it was lethal as we often fired it though both sides of a corrugated iron hut at a range of 10 yards or so.Eventually it was lost when the recoil sent it into a deep pond never to be found again.Ian.
Reply:@ rhunt-Bob, I mounted a gas operated shock under the barrel, takes about 5 seconds to return to forward position.
Reply:If you really want to build a recoil system properly and have access to a lathe, model up something like what was used on the classic French 75.
Reply:Why would you need this?  You do not live in SyriaLincoln mig-Pak 180, Leather gloves, vice grips, a couple screw drivers, needle nose pliers, a file, dog, cat and a bird
Reply:Originally Posted by pxtysonWhy would you need this?  You do not live in Syria
Reply:Because it's fun?
Reply:looks like a blast. I have been slowly fabbing a .75 cal muzzle loader but I think you have outdone me by a long shot. Here in Az it seems that any fun like this will get you arrested. My brother just got arrested for making a prohibited weapon, class 4 felony, for putting pool acid and tin foil in a plastic pop bottle. makes a loud boom but other than annoying its a prank kids pull.   i guess he should have used compressed air in a 2 liter bottle instead. I can imagine how upset the local law enforcement guys would be if they caught someone with a home built canon.