Scratch start TIG. How thin can I go?

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I've been thinking about getting into TIG welding. Mostly for making repairs on the thinner stuff that my stick welder doesn't do so well. If I set up a scratch start TIG rig on a dc buzzbox without a foot peddle can I expect to weld anything much thinner than I could just using the buzzbox with a stick?
Reply:How thin do you want to weld? I have a scratch tig setup and I can weld some pretty thin stuff with the right size tungsten and filler rod. Sometimes I have to use a heat sink to keep the base metal from melting. If you want to weld pop cans you need a good quality tig unit with pedal.With practice you will be surprised what you can do with a scratch tig setup. I use mig wire for thin work as it's easier to melt and I have lots of it. For 1/8 metal I take two pieces of .035 mig wire and twist it in my drill to make a filler rod, it works well for me and it's cheap. I find myself using the scratch tig more and more because it's simple and easy to operated.Lots of you tube videos on scratch tig.Good luck and have fun.
Reply:If I can figure out how to post a picture I will show a bead I just ran with a scratch tig unit on some 20 gauge sheet metal.
Reply:You can use scratch start to weld much thinner material than you can with stick. How low can your turn down your welder to in dc- polarity?I weld 16-18 gage sheet metal with mine frequently.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:This is 20 gauge sheet, 1/16 tungsten, twisted .035 mig wire, scratch tig torch and a Hobart stickmate. I'm pretty sure I could weld 24 gauge as I was a couple cranks up from the lowest setting on the stickmate, I don't have any 24 gauge to try. As you can see from the holes I burned it took me a couple tries to get the right settings. That's the bad with scratch tig, you have to be dead nuts on with the settings on the welder because there's no foot pedal. The good is it's a simple setup and very durable. I find myself using the scratch tig more and more all the time.Good luck and have fun.
Reply:Hey, thanks Kctgb that's exactly what I was hoping to hear! An occasional auto body repair is about as thin as I'd like to weld. I guess the imports are probably down around 24 gauge but the stuff I like to work on is usually a little thicker. What's the amperage range on the Stickmate?snoeproe, I haven't got one yet.  I'm thinking about either a used miller ac/dc thunder bolt, I think they do down to about 20-25 amps dc, or a century/sears ac/dc machine. I don't really know what they go down to...
Reply:On my stickmate the lowest amp number is 30 but I can crank it down 4 or 5 more turns lower than 30 amps. Also remember, I have been welding since 1979 so I have lots of experience when it comes to welding. There are other factors involved like travel speed, amp adjustment, tungsten size, cup size, gas settings that all figure into laying down a good weld.If you don't have lots of experience don't get frustrated if you can't make a nice weld on your first attempt. Keep at it be patient and things will start to look good after lots of practice.I also wouldn't try starting out on thin material as it's always harder to learn, and I wouldn't start out using a lincoln 225 welder with tap settings it's just to hard to learn on. It would be better to use a welder with continuous amperage control. The thunder bolt and stickmate are identical machines, just different colors. The miller is sold at welding supply stores and the stickmate is sold at box stores, usually the stickmate is $150 to $200 less than the thunder bolt in my area. Both Hobart and Miller are owned by the same parent company, ITW ( Illinois tool works ). Don't be afraid to buy the Hobart for less money.Hope this helps and good luck.Last edited by kctgb; 04-18-2014 at 04:28 PM.
Reply:My .02 - if you have to buy a welder to do scratch start tig, you may as well just buy a tig welder. I say that because your goal is thin material - it can be very frustrating to weld thin material without a foot control.It definitely can be done, but the real deal is way more fun Good luck to you either way Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:[QUOTE=MinnesotaDave;4066521]My .02 - if you have to buy a welder to do scratch start tig, you may as well just buy a tig welder. I say that because your goal is thin material - it can be very frustrating to weld thin material without a foot control.It definitely can be done, but the real deal is way more fun I completely agree. By the time you buy a welder and scratch tig torch with regulator you will be very close to an Everlast tig welder with AC high frequency with foot pedal, that's if you buy new. You can't include the bottle of argon because you will need it no matter which way you go.I do agree with Minnesota Dave.Last edited by kctgb; 04-18-2014 at 04:50 PM.
Reply:Thanks for all the advice.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveMy .02 - if you have to buy a welder to do scratch start tig, you may as well just buy a tig welder. I say that because your goal is thin material - it can be very frustrating to weld thin material without a foot control.It definitely can be done, but the real deal is way more fun Good luck to you either way
Reply:A good starting point for TIG is 1 amp per .001 thickness. So if your machine goes down to 30 amps you should be able to do .030 plus or minus a little.
Reply:I've welded plenty of stainless pipe and passed stainless pressure pipe welding tests, all with scratch start. In the industrial world you don't see foot peddles or high frequency. It just isn't practical and if you are a decent tig welder, those options aren't required.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by kctgbDave, I'm not trying to be a smart azz but I remember when scratch tig was the real deal. I saw a tig welder when I was a very young teen and it didn't have a foot pedal or high frequency. That was a very long time ago. The weldor used his skill to make up for not having a foot pedal.I think I'm a little older than you.
Reply:Completely different story if your welding aluminum. In That case yes, I suggest a foot peddle and high frequency. But for steel/stainless steel it just isn't required.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeCompletely different story if your welding aluminum. In That case yes, I suggest a foot peddle and high frequency. But for steel/stainless steel it just isn't required.
Reply:How well do those high frequency arc boxes work for aluminum when used with an ac buzzbox and tig torch?
Reply:I have seen my uncle weld aluminum with DC positive with a scratch tig unit. He lit up on a piece of copper and carried the arc over to the aluminum. I let him try my dynasty and the first thing he said to me was " get that effing foot pedal away from me ", he never could get the hang of the foot pedal. His scratch aluminum wasn't pretty but it was strong but not practical. he couldn't weld for very long before letting it cool down.He was a welder for over sixty years, his experience takes a life time to acquire.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob E.How well do those high frequency arc boxes work for aluminum when used with an ac buzzbox and tig torch?
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob E.How well do those high frequency arc boxes work for aluminum when used with an ac buzzbox and tig torch?
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob E.How well do those high frequency arc boxes work for aluminum when used with an ac buzzbox and tig torch?
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveFor 1/8" and above worked pretty good. Thinner than that and it got frustrating pretty quick.I tried DC+ on thin aluminum and it worked good - but heated up the tungsten and torch really fast like you said
Reply:Originally Posted by kctgbWhen you weld DC+ you have to turn down the amps to about half of what you would use for AC.My uncle used some kind of filler rod I have never seen before, it looked more like a rod for a stick welder as it had some kind of flux on the outside of it. It was a long time ago so my memory of him welding aluminum with scratch tig isn't to good. It was kind of funny trying to teach my uncle all the functions on my dynasty, he was so confused he didn't want anything to do with that welder.
Reply:I might have some aluminum stick rods laying around somewhere, I might have to do some experimenting with that some time and see how it works out.
Reply:Anybody know where I can find the owners manual for an older Century welder?Century has been out of business for a long time, they were bought up by Lincoln and pretty much shut down to eliminate the competition. That's a good welder but the HF box will only let you start the arc, there isn't any way to control amperage with the HF box. I don't see any real advantage unless your welding aluminum then a pedal will be needed.
Reply:I got the manual for the high frequency box from  Lincoln and an exploded diagram/parts list for the welder, but they don't have the manual for the welder...The high frequency box super imposes high frequency energy onto the welding current the entire time it's on. According to the manual it will allow me to weld aluminum and magnesium with ease  There is a toggle switch on the box to turn it on and off. I don't think it would work to good to start the arc for dc tig unless you rig up a switch to a foot peddle or something.If it doesn't work out I'm pretty sure I can sell the high frequency arc stabilizer for the price I paid for the whole set up. But we'll see. I need to keep an eye out for used torches, a bottle, and I think I'm going to grab one of those $30 regulators off of ebay. Then I can get some practice under my belt.
Reply:Hold on... My HF start box (miller hf251) was over $1,000... I'm pretty sure you can get an everlast power arc for $450 and have high frequency start and amperage control and a gas solenoid...As for welding aluminium with ease with continuous HF... I have never tried it with mine but I can't imagine it would work very well.Miller Dynasty 300 DXMiller CST280Miller Maxstar 150 STH
Reply:I'll sell you my HF box for $500 shipping included