How long will C25 cylinders last?

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I haven't found a clear answer, so I will ask - how long will a C25 tank last for non-continuous occasional welding?Newbie here looking to get a C25 cylinder for my Lincoln 140C so I can ditch the flux core and learn to get better welds.   I will be using it for restoring my '65 VW bus, which mainly involves thin sheet metal.  This will largely involve tack and stitch welding, not continuous welds. However, I will have some continuous as I go though a learning curve on scraps.I can purchase a 20 cu.ft. C25 cylinder for $79-85 full with refills ranging from $18.50 to $25.  A 40 cu.ft. C25 is $110-115 full with refills ranging from $19.25 to $30.  (Of course the more expensive source is also the closest one and right on the way home...)The cost is not really the issue, just curious of how long a casual welder, currently working on car restoration, can expect a tank to last?More questions to come when I figure out what I don't know...
Reply:The answer is actually quite clear and has been addressed here on a number of occasions but your being new to the sport it's easy to see how it can be overlooked.It's a cubic feet per hour issue.  Shielding gas flow rates are typically metered/measured by cubic feet per hour known as CFH.  A very common flow rate for MIG is 20CFH so, your 20cuft cylinder would last 1 hour if welding continuously or a total of 60 minutes of "trigger time" when spotting or stitching.  It would last 2 hours at 10CFH and so on.  The 40cuft cylinder would be twice that of the 20cuft unit.And welcome to the forum. MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by wingnut65I haven't found a clear answer, so I will ask - how long will a C25 tank last for non-continuous occasional welding?Newbie here looking to get a C25 cylinder for my Lincoln 140C so I can ditch the flux core and learn to get better welds.   I will be using it for restoring my '65 VW bus, which mainly involves thin sheet metal.  This will largely involve tack and stitch welding, not continuous welds. However, I will have some continuous as I go though a learning curve on scraps.I can purchase a 20 cu.ft. C25 cylinder for $79-85 full with refills ranging from $18.50 to $25.  A 40 cu.ft. C25 is $110-115 full with refills ranging from $19.25 to $30.  (Of course the more expensive source is also the closest one and right on the way home...)The cost is not really the issue, just curious of how long a casual welder, currently working on car restoration, can expect a tank to last?More questions to come when I figure out what I don't know...
Reply:Duane is correct, but I would add, as you can see the refills get much cheaper per CF on bigger bottles. The initial cost is higher, but will be made up in a couple of refills. I would recommend you get the largest owner bottle you can. For example, a 125 cf bottle will last 6 times as long as the 20 cf and refills are only about $5 or $6 more. Also check that you will be able to exchange bottles if you plan to do business with 2 or more suppliers. Some will exchange any owner bottle, but some places will only take their bottles. You should also check on CL to buy a bottle. I have bought several for less than $100.To my knowledge, the contents do not "go bad". I am currently using a bottle that was filled at least 10 years ago.BTW, I set my reg on 15 CFH, so I would get 8 hours of actual welding time from a 125 CF bottle.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:How long will C25 cylinders last? the cylinder last for years If properly cared for, it is the gas in side that is used up, sorry I could not help my self,
Reply:I thought about mentioning what Burt said and was going to suggest a larger cylinder as well for the same reasons.  A smaller cylinder for back-up wouldn't be a bad idea and can be had for little $$ off craigslist but make sure you look into the refill issue as Burt pointed out.As for flow rate, rule of thumb is 1CFH per 10A of weld output and his 15CFH is quite common.  I run between 15-20CFH myself depending on material, conditions and a little more with the spoolgun and aluminum.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Your also not getting any more questions answered until we see the bus!
Reply:I'm a hobby welder too.  I ended up choosing 80 cu ft bottles.  Less frequent refills compared to the bottles you mentioned plus the 80 cu ft bottles generally have safety caps.  mb
Reply:Get the largest cylinder that works for your use.if you go portable more than fixed get a 40 main and a backup 20.If you are in a fixed position and occasionally go mobile get an 80 for home and a 40 to travel...Maybe keep a 20 around for that saturday when you can't find anyone to swap out, and run out of gas...I keep an 80 of C25 and an 80 of Argon on the cart, I have a 40 of each just in case and a 20 of each for mobile use.The correct answer is get the LARGEST you can possibly handle.
Reply:I run 15 to 17 cfh with the garage door closed(no breeze) with the door open (windy) I'm pushing 20 cfh.For a hobbyist those hours look short but in reality a stitch here and there, won't eat up gas very quick.100% behind the "biggest bottle you can afford"!My neighbor has a bottle about the height of a gallon milk jug. I told him to throw it away and get a big bottle.He said he wouldn't use it much, sure enough because it is always empty!
Reply:I have 2 80 cf bottles and one always seems to be empty. Don't forget to turn the valve off when you are done. A really really slow leak will empty a bottle in no time at all.Thermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:Hey now, nobody seems to have muddied the waters yet and said your spare bottle should be straight liquid CO2Super cheap, lasts longer, works good (but not as good on body panels) and full bottles get sold on Craigslist all the time Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveHey now, nobody seems to have muddied the waters yet and said your spare bottle should be straight liquid CO2Super cheap, lasts longer, works good (but not as good on body panels) and full bottles get sold on Craigslist all the time
Reply:I started out with a 125(the biggest I could own) in December when i got my Mig. I ran it til March with my flowmeter set to 25cfh and when i went to exchange it they didn't have any so the manager let me under the counter upgrade to a 300 and my tank pressure hasn't budged and its been worked hard. So i think I might be exchanging it around ChristmasSent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Silly wabbit- co2 don't last longer  not technically  CFH is CFH But.. A small bottle of CO2 like a 20lber comes out to about 174cf so you get more in a smaller package and usually cheaper.My main bottle is only a 20lber and my back up is a15lber- cheap on CL
Reply:Maybe he'll ask how long a 2lb of 030 will last?I burned through on in about 3.5 hours over the last 3 evenings!I know now why I always use 10lb rolls!
Reply:C25 always runs out. I gave up on C25 long before I got my own C25 cylinder.I  have a 50lb CO2 bottle and buy argon as needed to make what ever gas mix I need. Argon costs almost as much as C25, so might as well get pure argon. The only time I like C25 is on thinner metal, CO2 for everything thicker.My 50lb CO2 bottle holds about 10 times the gas volume of ann equal size C25 bottle and only costs $40 to fill.So if you think C25 is expensive,  well it is.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Wow, Thanks for all the education!  I had read about the CFH, but wasn't sure how it all fit together.  I'm beginning to see the light now.  I need to get my valve out and figure out what this all means.I do have storage issues in my garage, so getting the largest bottles I can will help with less trips to refill, but creates other storage issues.  I currently have a storage spot for my welder that is under my workbench.  I was considering the smaller tanks to keep the top low enough to still fit there. But from what everyone is suggesting, I guess I need to look into the 60 or 80 tanks. (This advice to help spend more of my money will actually help when I tell the Finance Minister what I am doing)mad welder 4's suggestion to mix my own welding gas has possibilities, but since I am just starting out right now, I need a little more experience before I would feel comfortable with it.MinnesotaDave mentioned using straight CO2.  Is that acceptable with MIG?  mad welder 4 mentioned that C25 is better for thin stuff, which is primarily what I have.  Most all the parts I've come across so far are 22 gauge.Mental note, pick up the 10 lb roll of 0.025 when getting the cylinder! Originally Posted by FarmerboyHow long will C25 cylinders last? the cylinder last for years If properly cared for, it is the gas in side that is used up, sorry I could not help my self,
Reply:If you can find an inexpensive mixer otherwise the pay back on buying a mixer would take a lifetime for a home shop guy.AWESOME walk thru Kombi!Last edited by vwguy3; 05-08-2014 at 08:31 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3If you can find an inexpensive mixer otherwise the pay back on buying a mixer would take a lifetime for a home shop guy.AWESOME walk thru Kombi!
Reply:http://store.cyberweld.com/smithgasmixers.html....hold on to your swing lever pin!Yes you can use two flow gauges/flow meters and a Y.....does it work well and consistantly? no
Reply:Originally Posted by wingnut65MinnesotaDave mentioned using straight CO2. Is that acceptable with MIG? mad welder 4 mentioned that C25 is better for thin stuff, which is primarily what I have. Most all the parts I've come across so far are 22 gauge.
Reply:Will you need another set of rear axles with gear boxes on them? I happen to have a set, but am planning on scrapping the whole thing to get rid of it from the yard. It is type II axles in a type I transmission in a beetle right now. My old van had a one peice front seat where three could sit side by side in it, no walk thru but climb over. That's OK when your a teenager though.
Reply:Up until this year (I think) they were still building those in Brazil.  Or was it Chile?New safety regs made them decide to stop production as re-engineering and re-tooling would be cost prohibitive or so the news report said.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Brazil it is.  Or was.https://ph.news.yahoo.com/photos/vol...bus-slideshow/Gotta be a ton of replacement sheet metal down there.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!“i am thirty five years old, i am divorced, and i live in a van down by the river.”Sorry, couldn't resist! I like the van project.  I've thought about restoring an old Econoline but I just don't have the time or space to do it...GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:My Dad had a '63 (?) Econoline pick up he bought to replace his '57 Chevy station wagon he hauled is carpentry tools around in.Later used it on the farm we rented to haul grain out of the fields.  Built a homemade camper on the back and we drove it to Shreveport LA from Syracuse NY to visit family before most of todays interstates were completed.  Let the family talk him into staying an extra day which meant he wound up driving 32 hours straight to get home in time to go to work Monday morning.  Remember - many interstate highways were just under construction so going was slow and that poor little 250 six cylinder was working double overtime on some of those hills too.  Poor thing barely made it home and we ended up putting a 300 in-line in it for its final days on the road. Well THAT should suffice for a hi-jack!!MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauWill you need another set of rear axles with gear boxes on them? I happen to have a set, but am planning on scrapping the whole thing to get rid of it from the yard. It is type II axles in a type I transmission in a beetle right now. My old van had a one peice front seat where three could sit side by side in it, no walk thru but climb over. That's OK when your a teenager though.
Reply:CYLINDER UPDATE...I picked up my C25 cylinder today. The 80 was just a little more in size and cost than I wanted to jump into.  But, you have talked me into upsizing my purchase to get a 55 tank.  Just got it home and will see if I can get it connected tonight or this weekend.
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelI like the van project.  I've thought about restoring an old Econoline but I just don't have the time or space to do it...
Reply:Originally Posted by wingnut65CYLINDER UPDATE...I picked up my C25 cylinder today. The 80 was just a little more in size and cost than I wanted to jump into.  But, you have talked me into upsizing my purchase to get a 55 tank.  Just got it home and will see if I can get it connected tonight or this weekend.
Reply:On 22ga, you might want to run nearly pure argon. Run something like a stainless steel mix, of 2% to 5% CO2. That will help run the weld cool and prevent burn through.Mixing your own gas is deceptively easy. Any thing from 3/32inch to 3/8inch use CO2. If for some reason you want a prettier looking weld, need to weld over head and want to reduce the amount of fire falling on you add anywhere from turn on the argon and mix 20% to 50% CO2.All you need is flow meters for each gas and a tee connector.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder