Guidance with 211 Mig Welds

admin

Hey All-So, I am new to Welding Web (sort of). I have been lurking for a while, but just recently opened an account so that I can get some help with improving my technique.I have a Millermatic 211 which I have owned for a little over a year. I just recently hooked it up to 230v (have been using 110v on my previous projects), also just stepped up to .035" wire (Lincoln L-56 ER70S-6). I am running a 25/75 mix shielding gas. I have hobby-level experience on and off for about 14 years, and have taken about a year of weld training in college (mostly Tig). So this is not my first time welding.My basic issues: I am welding suspension brackets onto my truck and I am just not happy with the look of my welds. Furthermore, I feel like I am fighting the 211. I have done several brackets on the truck, and I feel like I have had to completely setup the machine fresh every time I use it. Use it one day, and I seem to get good welds. Use the same settings the next day on the same type and thickness of material, and the settings seem way off.Another issue I have been fighting since going to the .035" and thicker metal is spatter and arc fissures. Basically, signs that the arc is too hot, but turning it down doesn't seem to help until I'm close to 1/2 the heat of the suggested settings, and then I start getting caterpillars. Everytime I go to start a weld, I start it out using the recommended settings. I find I typically have to back down the WFS about 10 to 20 steps and the Current between 1 and 2 settings.I have not had any issues with the suspension brackets directly. I have always played with the machine until I am happy with the welds on test strips before I switch over the frame, but I feel like I'm fighting something, and I'm just not sure what. Typical settings for frame welding was 4.5/45. Frame material is 1/8" steel, and brackets are 1/4".I have done numerous test welds (like the first set of pictures below). Everytime I cut a weld apart to analyze, it is completed fused to the base metal with no inclusions, so I'm not worried about strength as much as I am getting the welds to look better, and getting a more consistent bead pattern. I did not seem to have these issues with .065" and 1/8" steel using 110v.Below you will find several examples of the welds I am struggling with (there are more on my photobucket account if you click on my links).Test Welds with 3/16" PlateTest Welds with .065" Tube on 1/4" TubeSuspension Bracket WeldsFeel free to critique as much or as little as you see fit (I will try to have thick skin). I am not necessarily trying to become a professional welder, but I would like to make my welds more consistent so that I can be proud showing them off to others.Any information you may have (or similar experiences with a Miller 211) would be greatly appreciated.
Reply:We'll start out with the basics. Major suspension mods on a street vehicle are NOT learning projects. Failure on something like this is NOT an option. If you are having issues with your welds, you want stop stop and let someone who can do things correct do the work. Also depending on the vehicle, welds on frames are just a bad idea. High strength alloys used in many newer vehicles require specialized weld procedures. It's no longer just as simple as squirt metal on a frame. You need to deal with preheat, post heat as well as match the filler to the higher strength materials to prevent cracking and failure down the road. Note that in many cases today suspension components are not welded to the frame at the factory, but attached with rivets. They do this for a reason usually.I'll step down off the soap box now...Your consistency is poor. I also don't like all the starts and stops I see in the picts. Stops and starts on corners are asking for cracks to develop as those are the points where stresses tend to concentrate and your welds are the weakest. I'm wondering if you can really read the puddle. That's typically the 1st issue I run into with students when they move from horizontal to vertical and overhead. They can get by fine doing timing patterns flat and horizontal, but that doesn't work vertical and overhead. I'd like to see picts where you had major issues so I could tell exactly what issues you might be having.Welds aren't great, but I've seen a lot worse. Certainly not up to standard for something like this however. I'd be wanting to use .030 wire on material this thick vs .035. That would allow me to fine tune things a bit more and have more control over the puddle as well as run just a bit slower. .035 is certainly suitable, but is a bit harder to work with for someone with less experience..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW-Thanks for your feedback.To address your concerns: This isn't my first time doing suspension work, just my first time with this machine and equipment. I have helped friends with 4-Link suspensions, including strip and off-road vehicles. None of those welds have failed in the 10 years since the first one was put in place. That said, I appreciate your concern. If I was (or am) concerned about the strength of my welds, I will cut them off and weld them again (which I may still be doing, depending on where this thread gets me). This project will also probably take me a little over a year to complete (with my time and availability), so I am very likely to cut these welds out and re-run them once my skills have increased enough.The frame in question is a 1985 Toyota 4-Runner which used a plain (mild) steel frame. This suspension kit is sold specifically for this vehicle and has been installed in a similar manner on numerous other vehicles, so I am also not too worried about special processes for treating the frame, etc. This vehicle will see about 20% street use and 80% off-road use. As a matter of fact, here are a couple of pictures of the factory welds which appear to be very lacking (to my eye). There's a minimal amount of weld material in the welds, and most of them appear to have more material on top of the joint than in the the joint. I was very surprised at the quality of the factory welds.With respect to your specific guidance. For corners, I have been trying to have overlap in the corners. Effectively, I have been trying to run down the length, run around the corner and stop, and then pick up in the corner again (overlapping the last 1/4" to 1/2" of weld on the corner when I start the weld). I can try to do a more complete weld, but since I am doing this laying on my back or on my knees, under the vehicle, getting one continuous weld is probably going to be pretty hard. And you are right, one of the things I am fighting is the ability to see the weld puddle. I am working under the bed of the truck, with limited space for my head, helmet, arms and gun. Normally I like to get in nice and close to the weld, but under the truck the closest I can get is about 6" to a foot from the weld. This definitely makes it harder for me to see the weld. There are also several obstructions in the way which I have been working around. That's another reason why I have needed to start and stop so much. (Get near an obstruction, stop, reposition around the obstruction, strike the arc again, and continue).As for troublesome welds, here is the first picture with some of the troublesome welds I am talking about.I started from right and was moving left, with the puddle leading. The first puddle (top right) I had forgotten to turn the gas on (got ahead of myself this morning), that's why its so porous. Second and third weren't too bad, and when I got to the fourth on the top row it was going smoothly. I then went and did the bottom row. Same settings, same general configuration, etc. I wire brushed everything down to get rid of any slag or crap from the first welds, and then was just trying to lay down welds on top of the metal (no bonding). It was spurting and cutting deep into the welds. You will notice that the puddles are very non-uniform. On the second one, you will notice the fissures I am talking about around the edges. Its almost as if the machine was just running way to hot. While I was welding the puddle seemed very turbulent (which I believe is the source of the lack of fusion around the edges).Here is the second picture. Same material, back-side.I started with the same settings on this side as I had on the first side. I did this side about 3 minutes after the other welds. I also started at the right and went to the left, pushing the puddle. I focused on the (really) bad ones here. The top-left started out very violent and I was having a hell of a time seeing the weld, its like my shade wasn't dark enough (but if I go more than one or two shades darker, I have a hard time seeing the leading edge or the material line). The bottom ones again show some of the incomplete fusion around the edges and the weird "Damn that's too hot" look. They were bad enough that I didn't run more than a couple of turns before stopping.I did run those welds back-to-back, and afterwards the tip of the gun was getting warm, so I shut her down. I let it sit about 30 minutes. Then I tore the tip and other goodies in the tip of the gun apart, replaced the tip, cleaned the nozzle, etc. I didn't see anything obviously wrong with any of it, but after putting it back together it seemed to be doing better. I test welded up 3 or 4 coupons, and things were looking good, so I called it a day and decided to try and figure out what I could here.Your suggestion of going back to .030" might be the best bet for me. I have burned through (2) 12lbs. spools of .030" on this machine and feel much more comfortable with that over the .035". I have only burned through about 1/8 of my first 12lbs. spool of .035. I was primarily going with .035" because several other suggestions I had seen for framing and suspension brackets all recommended .035". I wasn't expecting quite the issues I have been having.With regards to practicing, my biggest issue is that, for me, welding up test coupons does very little to help me learn. I have always had a hard time learning from what I call "Book Work". I can only stare at the same two pieces of metal in the same 5 orientations over and over again before it all starts looking the same. I really need something "real" to work on. This helps force me to learn to adapt to changes, or different situations, or learn what I do and don't know. Even if it means I have to do it 2 or 3 times to get it right, that's fine, that's all part of my learning process.Sorry if I sound defensive, that's definitely not my goal. My only goal here is to hopefully become a better welder, and ultimately produce welds that I can be proud of, and confident that others aren't going to tear them to shreds. I also try to provide as much information about the situation, etc., as I can, because sometimes that can be a part of the culprit, and obviously you guys aren't there standing over my shoulder while I'm welding.Thanks, and keep the suggestions coming!
Reply:It almost sounds like you might be having some drag on the wire. I'd be tempted to pull the liner from the gun and lay it out straight on a table and look for a kink. It doesn't take much of a kink in the liner to start to mess things up, especially when you start twisting the gun in awkward positions. The guys where I used to work were notorious for jamming my mig in a corner when I wasn't there to make themselves more room and kinking the liner right where it entered the strain relief at the machine. Got to the point where I just removed the gun every time I was done, since I'd instal a new liner, then come back the next day to find they kinked it again.Welding under a vehicle can be tough. Best solution is to get yourself as much working room as possible, either by using a rotisserie ( not available to most) or putting it up on a lift or blocking it up extra high. Practice in awkward positions can help. I've been known to have student tack practice pieces to the underside of a table and lay on the floor to try and weld. Try and replicate the conditions as much as possible..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW-I will definitely check out the liner tonight, that certainly could explain why I can't seem to get consistent WSF / Current Settings on my welder. Now that you say that, I remember bumping the front end of my cart into something the other day. It wasn't hard, but it would have been right around where the strain relief is where the liner exits the machine, so it is possible I put a minor kink. Just enough that when the liner is straight its ok, and when it's bent, it slows the cable down.I will try your suggestion of welding under a table as well. That might give me more practice in the awkward positions. When I do test welds, I tend to be sitting comfortably at a table which is wildly different than the positions I sit in under the truck. Its not uncommon for me to spend 4 or 5 minutes positioning myself under there just so I can get enough visibility to see the whole side of the weld I am going for.Thanks again for the advise. I'll keep you posted on where it gets me.
Reply:Redwolf3  I assume you go to the Rubicon trails often. Can you take pics for us. Its not that far from me but Ive never been thru the trails there. I dont want my welds breaking and I do hear those trails will break a Jeep.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIt almost sounds like you might be having some drag on the wire.
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideI assume you go to the Rubicon trails often. Can you take pics for us. Its not that far from me but Ive never been thru the trails there. I dont want my welds breaking and I do hear those trails will break a Jeep.
Reply:Well, I finally found some time today to start practicing with the .035" wire, and I think I finally found the sweet spot. From what I can tell, it looks like I had the adjustments all set too high. They were set at Millers recommended settings of 5.5/60. I ended up turning each setting up and down until I got that nice Bacon Frying sound. Once I got there, the welds have become much cleaner, more controllable, and less violent. I'm also getting a lot less spatter. I think I'm going to finish off this tank of gas on the .035" wire to get more practice in on it. Hopefully by the end of that I will be closer to my end goal.Once I have done a little more practice and have some welds to show, I will post back up to get additional critiques and guidance.Thanks again!
Reply:Remove the .035 wire from the machine, and go back to running .030. The smaller diameter wire will give you better puddle control, and be more forgiving. Also, for the output current range your unit covers an .030 wire will produce a deeper penetrating weld then an .035.Based on what I am seeing in your picture, I am suspecting you may have had the wire speed set a little to high for the voltage.I'd remove the wire cleaning /lube pad. I gave one of those pads a try before on my Hobart Handler 187, and it ended up totally corrupting the arc quality. One weld after I removed it, the arc quality improved back to normal.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Originally Posted by DanRemove the .035 wire from the machine, and go back to running .030. The smaller diameter wire will give you better puddle control, and be more forgiving. Also, for the output current range your unit covers an .030 wire will produce a deeper penetrating weld then an .035.Based on what I am seeing in your picture, I am suspecting you may have had the wire speed set a little to high for the voltage.I'd remove the wire cleaning /lube pad. I gave one of those pads a try before on my Hobart Handler 187, and it ended up totally corrupting the arc quality. One weld after I removed it, the arc quality improved back to normal.
Reply:Dan-I think you hit the nail on the head. The biggest thing I had to do to get a cleaner arc was back off the wire speed. I did have to back off the output current as well, but not as much as the wire speed.Here are some additional welds done on .035" on some 3/16" angle. Just trying to build up bead after bead after bead. By this point, the beads were coming together nicely and moving smoothly. I still need to work on my puddle control in general, but my puddle control with .035" is definitely not as good as it was with .030".Most of the spatter, etc. were from my previous test welds, I just started building bead upon bead. I also ended up adjusting my Auto-Darkening helmet down to an 11 shade from where it was at before (9). I think previously I was too focused on trying to see the arc point, and not enough on the puddle itself. The one thing I do find with the darker shade is that its a lot harder to follow the material, but since most of these were done out in the open with no real guide, that doesn't surprise me too much.Given that everyone is recommending .030", I'll drop the .035" tomorrow and drop back down the lower wire size. I mostly went to the .035" wire because all of the calculators I found recommended .035" or .045", and I didn't happen upon any that recommended .030". I'll also try removing the cleaning pad since I haven't noticed any major benefit, and it does seem to be putting more of a load on the wire feeder.Thanks again for the input.
Reply:Beads don't look too bad, but the do look a bit taller than I'd care for. I'd decrease the wire just slightly or go up in power some.When overlapping beads, try to overlap them by 50%. the idea is when you are done the top surface is fairly smooth vs the up and down hills you show now. Last pict you show looks like a 25% overlap vs a 50% one.Consistency needs work. Practice will help straighten things out. Good body position helps. If you aren't fighting your body's natural tendency to move towards a given position it's easier to go in a straight line. That's something you have to learn thru practice and trial and error..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan